ohh, that is such a neat idea : all the SCB energy goes to heat. That would actually be really cool.
Break through SCBs instantly with modified railguns (Newletter 121)
- Thread starter Alexander the Grape
- Start date
If you ignore several other big changes, yes, this is crazy and favors HRP, but if we look at the big picture hull tanks are potenitally in big trouble. Missiles will now punish exposed modules and we will have heat beams. Silent running hull tanks are going to have to deal with a lot more heat and if they get hit by missiles their heat sinks, engines, weapons and canopy are going to fail on them. A rail gun FdL isn't very scary when all it's railguns are constantly malfunctioning. Depending on the extent of the damage from missiles and heat from the beams as well as effectiveness of rejuv lasers and any changes being made to hull modifications, shield generators, cells banks, damage from new C4 weapons, etc...not to mention the availability of materials and difficulty in obtaining them for modifications.
In other words. It is far too early to make any kind of prediction let alone raise any kind of alarm. This update isn't going to just nudge the meta one way or another, it's taking a sledge to it, breaking it into 1,000 pieces and throwing them into the air. There is no way to say with any kind of credibility even approaching speculation how all those pieces are going to land, let alone what players will do with them.
Beta will be very interesting and I'll expect a variety of changes to the mods ranging from minor tweaks to huge nerfs or buffs, but prebeta these kinds of discussions, particularly the fear mongering of one proposed, pre-beta weapon are ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that all this twisting is over "PvP"...which makes up what? .1-.2% of all the combat that takes place in Elite. Lets all just settle down.
Heat lasers can be countered by heat sinks, impact cannons have slow projectiles, missiles can be taken out by AMS, rejuv lasers require a wing and will be difficult to use while maneuvering, plus we don't know how effective the 'heals' will be. The railgun is an outlier because there is no effective counter other than playing into the current rails/hull tank meta, which is disappointing.
Is it early to portend doomsday? Sure, but it's never too early to speculate. For all we know none of these weapons will make it into live, or there may be a much more overpowered weapon available. However it is perfectly valid to raise concern over what sort of impact a given update will have on the game.
Also NPCs will be able to equip these modules too. Just saying.
Will be very interesting to see how these rails last during Beta and balancing with everything else.
It *does* seem heavy handed, but I'll be interested to see how it balances out with the other modules. I would've thought just "shorting" the SCB boost, rendering it useless would've been sufficient, but it sounds like getting out of fire before letting off an SCB might also be a possible tactic. Guess we'll find out.
NPCs also equip and use SCBs
It *does* seem heavy handed, but I'll be interested to see how it balances out with the other modules. I would've thought just "shorting" the SCB boost, rendering it useless would've been sufficient, but it sounds like getting out of fire before letting off an SCB might also be a possible tactic. Guess we'll find out.
NPCs also equip and use SCBs
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Hey, you know what would be very funny?
That crafting this magic railgun would actually require some components only found in the Cytoscrambler...
...and that the PowerPlay collapse mechanism gets finally implemented in 2.1...:-D
That crafting this magic railgun would actually require some components only found in the Cytoscrambler...
...and that the PowerPlay collapse mechanism gets finally implemented in 2.1...:-D
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I want to be able use my modified railgun to shoot the beam laser of someone currently healing their wingmate, and auto-detonate their ship.
The "concerns" would be valid if there were any data or experience to validate them. There isn't. There is rampant speculation based on far fetched assumptions based on a meta that won't in all likelihood persist past day two of 2.1 except among players too lazy or afraid to try anything new until someone else shows so undoubtedly that it's viable they can't help but be led by the nose to it. All of this for an activity in the game that occupies such a miniscule amount of player activity it's unbelievable it's even mentioned in that context.
2.1, force bullets. 3.1, tractor beams?
But more on-topic, it's good to see the idea of custom rigged ships changing the battlefield, and I think this'll not only open up the PvP possibilities, but also allow PvE wings to play with more interesting mechanics in PP or BGS work. Imagine if a 'vette sat near a capital ship unloading class 4 fixed multis whilst a wing fly about with healing beams. Or how about putting said healing beams on Condors when multi-crew and deployable craft come along? As much as I was initially nonchalant about engineers in general, as I'm mainly waiting for a Beluga this year, the recent livestream has made me realise it could introduce a lot of fun into the game...assuming there aren't too many grindgates involved...
But more on-topic, it's good to see the idea of custom rigged ships changing the battlefield, and I think this'll not only open up the PvP possibilities, but also allow PvE wings to play with more interesting mechanics in PP or BGS work. Imagine if a 'vette sat near a capital ship unloading class 4 fixed multis whilst a wing fly about with healing beams. Or how about putting said healing beams on Condors when multi-crew and deployable craft come along? As much as I was initially nonchalant about engineers in general, as I'm mainly waiting for a Beluga this year, the recent livestream has made me realise it could introduce a lot of fun into the game...assuming there aren't too many grindgates involved...
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Sole Hunter
Banned
cancer silent running meta just got buffed with instant shield killers, no point to bring a corvette with scb's now.
Not sure this is such a big problem. Consider that the SCB is active for about 4s before charge... and the rail gun has to be held down to charge... so once you see they are charging the SCB you have 4s to swap to rails, charge them, aim and hit. That's not exactly simple to do in 4s. If you add in a high power usage for the railgun, you have to decide whether to run this active and turn off some systems or try to cycle it up on the fly.
Honestly my biggest concern isn't for players pulling it off its for NPCs to pull it off, NPCs will be getting a significant buff in 2.1 and they already have incredible accuracy for fixed weapons. I worry that combined with whether or not they will feel the same restrictions in ammo will make them a bit too good with this weapon type if the instant break of shields. Personally I'd like it more if it was just damage boost, even if it was pretty high like say counters 80% of the benefit given by the shield cell bank.
NPCs with rails are already a nightmare to deal with.
Doesn't seem that bad to me. Someone using a SCB is already down on shields, this is just a finishing blow. It'll also discourage people from spamming SCBs when their shields are up. This will encourage the use of SCBs back to emergency option or out of combat use, which is what FD have said is their intention anyway.
Personally, when my fangs are hanging out and I'm wrapped up in the fight I tend to not use the SCB even though I always equip one - I maintain my shields by pip management and by evading incoming fire... SCBs are more for "Ok, got him. Quick recharge before I go after the next one." That works for me because I'm not a hardcore PvPer, if my shields go down I'll usually accept the "loss" and go into Sir Robin mode. If the other guy is that much of a better pilot than I am, not going to stick around and keep fighting only to get my teeth kicked in. If he's a pirate, that means he gets the cargo he wanted. If he's a merc that's just out for a piece of my hide then it's time I was elsewhere.
Scan the enemy to determine if he has one before using SCBs. If he does have one, boost out of range and stay out of range before using the SCB. Alternatively, target the enemy's modified railgun and drop it to 0% before using the SCB. Also remember that a wing only needs one of the ships to have a modified railgun. Preferably, that would be the fastest ship in the wing in case someone has the bright idea to get out of weapons range before using an SCB. I imagine that a shielded wing would target whoever carries this weapon as the first target.
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It's great. Brings us to a place where for all intents and purposes the shield you initially bring into a fight is the only one you can count on. After that, it's a combination of luck and skill. This is a good thing. Instead of long, drawn-out battles between ships carrying loads of SCBs, we'll have tense battles of indeterminate length between ships carrying loads of SCBs. Instead of waiting to see who runs out of SCBs first, there will be another layer of psychology where each opponent tries to anticipate when the other will recharge their shields.
Railguns are an ideal weapon for this modification because they require precision and good timing. Combined with the narrow window of opportunity to disrupt the SCB charge, this will make for some interesting reversals of fortune, close saves, and near misses.
And don't assume that HRPs are going to dominate because of this change. Missiles and torpedoes are getting an upgrade, and they're specifically effective on external modules and hardpoints. All those unshielded hull-tanking ships you're so concerned about will be a lot less threatening when you can cripple their weapons, shatter their canopies, or disable their heat-sink launchers without needing to break down their hull. Oh, you say they can just equip ECM and Point Defense? Yes they can! And it'll take up heat-sink launcher slots to do it. So much for silent running. Hey - you know what else generates a lot of heat? That's right - railguns!
Implementation is everything, of course, but all of the changes announced so far have the potential to produce the kinds of dynamic asymmetries that the game needs to keep combat interesting and varied. We're starting to see the beginnings of a decent paper-scissor-rock situation, where nobody can perfectly outfit themselves against one type of build without making themselves vulnerable to another. This is a good thing. Probably!
Railguns are an ideal weapon for this modification because they require precision and good timing. Combined with the narrow window of opportunity to disrupt the SCB charge, this will make for some interesting reversals of fortune, close saves, and near misses.
And don't assume that HRPs are going to dominate because of this change. Missiles and torpedoes are getting an upgrade, and they're specifically effective on external modules and hardpoints. All those unshielded hull-tanking ships you're so concerned about will be a lot less threatening when you can cripple their weapons, shatter their canopies, or disable their heat-sink launchers without needing to break down their hull. Oh, you say they can just equip ECM and Point Defense? Yes they can! And it'll take up heat-sink launcher slots to do it. So much for silent running. Hey - you know what else generates a lot of heat? That's right - railguns!
Implementation is everything, of course, but all of the changes announced so far have the potential to produce the kinds of dynamic asymmetries that the game needs to keep combat interesting and varied. We're starting to see the beginnings of a decent paper-scissor-rock situation, where nobody can perfectly outfit themselves against one type of build without making themselves vulnerable to another. This is a good thing. Probably!
Sad how the same can be said for every thread about every change in every patch, half screaming for a change in one direction, half screaming for a change in the other direction, and both proclaiming balance is dooms if their change is not made