Misson Overhaul - Same Old in New Package?

[Soliluna]

c) tedious and repetitive take x to z for y and variants thereof.

Insert any verb instead of take, do it more than once.

Questions?

 

[Gedemon]

Prays that will never happen. This is not WoW with raids. Its a single player game with some multi player interaction. If you get content that is only possible with wings that breaks that concept and thus should never happen.

The idea is to allow a wing to take a mission available to anyone but to share the reward once it's completed, not creating mission for wings only.

 

[knowles2]

The updates in general are of an evolutionary nature as opposed to revolutionary.
2.1 seems to add a lot of cool stuff, but we will have to wait and see about the missions.

Of course we must not forget that ED uses a PG system to generate missions.
This will never be able to generate mission campaigns that tell deep stories.
I hope FD finds ways to approach this, but unless they decide to handcraft a campaign at some point in the development a lot of complainers will keep complaining.
They just do not get the nature of the Elite series.

Personally I hope that FD will eventually, at the end of the 10 year development cycle, release an expansive story based campaign.
I'd be prepared to pay extra for that.
I would like to start down on a planet, without a ship and then after a few cool missions buy (or steal) my first ship.... etc.

I wouldn't underestimate what can be done with procedural generation. There a lot of other things that will probably need to be in place before really deep stories can be developed.

But with all fractions getting leaders now and the addition people handing out missions. I can see how they could develop a fairly deep story mission, okay you probably aren't going to get something like The Last of US deep but you can probably count the number of games with stories that deep on one hand.

But creating a system which could generate this kind of storyline is well within Frontier capabilities I believe

You pick up a mission from x system which is to deliver food and medicine to a city on y planet in y system.

When you get there you find the city has been surrounded and blockaded by the system dictatorship led by General Evil. After dispatching a few of the general vessels and successfully delivering supplies.

You are introduce to a rebel commander who in charge of defending the city, he will offer you a mission to destroy a column of SRVs heading to the city.

You successfully attack and destroy those SRVs and recover a data storage device.

You and the rebels lack the capabilities to crack the coding on the device, so you break through blockade got to Planet Decoder to get a scientist to unlock the device.

This unlock the location of General Evil supply bases and assets which he using fund his war.

You then take this data back to the rebels, who then assemble a force to attack and destroy that base.

And so on and so forth until you overthrow General Evil and end the dictatorship.

Of cause most of these stories would still consist of pick item A and take it to B, but with enough data such as names of people, name of cities, names of planets, names of ships, it shouldn't be that hard to surround this with storyline fluff to make the missions more meaningful and impactful on the galaxy.

 

[Seonid]

There's a saying in the UK forces. You can't polish a (starts with a T rhymes with bird).

No, but you can roll it in glitter, as the other half of that phrase goes. We'll see in the Beta how much has actually changed so I'm reserving judgement for now.

 

[knowles2]

None of you read the memo Braben posted months ago.
He specifically wrote, that mission system does not need change, it only needs to be communicated better and more clearly, because we failed to appreciate them.
Advancing in military ranks by hauling grain all over again, just prettier pictures on the screen.

You look games across the whole spectrum you find the many times missions in games are the same, travel x, kill y, move on to Z.

Deliver food to A.

It not necessarily the simplicity of the missions that the problem in elite, it the fact that there isn't yet stories surrounding those missions, to make sure there something important at state in completing those mission.

Here an example,

Pick up escape pod from Planet Y and take to Planet W,

Now that sound boring.


Now let liven that up with a simple storyline,

Johanson Johnson is a poor single mother on Planet Y, her child was kidnapped by the Blue Ribbon gang a few months ago, a pilot have told her he detected an escape pod from the pirates carrying a child but didn't have the cargo space to pick it up. She offering 5,000 credits to a Pilot willing to go out there an receive that escape pod and take her to Planet W where she has family an friends who will help her out.

Now although the mission is still the same, pick item up from A take to B, but surrounding it with a story about reuniting a child with her mother you giving it much more weight to the mission.

It could also be as simple as learning down the road that your failure to deliver those supplies to rebel forces led to their complete decimation via the news feeds.

 

[NMS]

Just looked at the newsletter. Maybe it is just me or the way that they presented the changes, but so far I just see the same old missions in a shiny new packaging. I hope that this is not the case, as it would be a major disappointment.

That's exactly what came to my mind when reading the newsletter.

What worried me was the low payouts. Let's hope they scale up nicely once you get more trusted, 50k is pretty damn low if you have 10 mill assets like the CMDR in the picture

Hopefully all these "mission overhauls" isn't just a misunderstanding of what FD mean. I really wished to see missions becoming more involved and complex like the Predator and Prey tutorial mission back in Alpha.

Missions, themselves, are the same?

All of which is meaningless if the missions themselves are:

a) broken and uncompletable
b) buggy
c) tedious and repetitive take x to z for y and variants thereof.

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So ten years from now? That's crazy talk. There won't be anyone left playing if they wait that long to fix missions properly.

The missions are crap - the mission giver is not the problem.

It is not enough developers improve only the structure and context of the missions without effectively improve the missions in your content itself. In confirming this, it is a waste of time this part of the update.(1.3 again?)

Missions as they are today are a disappointment.

 

[Lightspeed]

If they have managed to fix the major bugs in the existing missions, that will be a big step forward for me !

 

[Kaocraft]

IF it turns out that the missions themselves are more or less the same as before; as they appear to be in the screenshots released today; then yeah that will be a huge letdown. Elite's missions have been absolute garbage from day1, and prettying up the interface and rewards structure surrounding them is not a solution of any kind. However I'm not going to be convinced one way or another until I see a demonstration of how the system works. There's nothing wrong with a mission that *starts* out as "bring me 4 of a certain thing." What separates a good mission system from a bad one is all the things that can happen to you, and all the interesting divergent paths that can arise while you are in the process of getting 4 of that certain thing.

Luke Skywalker's 1st "mission" was to go to a local market and buy some robots, then bring them back to the farm.

 

[Drelthar]

Sadly, I'm expecting it to suck about as much as now, but look nicer. Which would be a huge shame as there have been countless brilliant suggestions on how to make missions that are interesting and dynamic on the forums.

I hope I am wrong, but I.... just doubt it.

 

[X-Terminator]

We now get lots more NPCs & Cops and Traffic Control whilst we boost in and ignore it all setting off from Robigo.

 

[clivewil]

What worried me was the low payouts. Let's hope they scale up nicely once you get more trusted, 50k is pretty damn low if you have 10 mill assets like the CMDR in the picture

there seemed to be an undercurrent of "we don't want players buying Anacondas too easily or too early" hence missions offering pittance even at upper ranks - but any Elite or near-Elite pilot would already have bucketloads of cash and one or more 'end game' ships, as a result of their long slog through the game so far. paying high ranked pilots in peanuts is trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted - we already have our Cutters and Corvettes! now we want to see a significant increase in our bank balance after we cart your junk from A to B, as a sign that you know you're getting the best service available from a skilled operator

there are of course those who say "it's not about the credits!" - which is of course, pure rubbish. if it wasn't about the credits, you'd earn each ship directly as a reward for service to a particular entity, instead of waltzing into a shop and buying it with cash as we do in ED. therefore credits matter, and to a large extent they determine what your next move will be

i have over 3,000 hours of game time in ED - stop feeding me crumbs, i want a slice of pie.


---> with regard to assets, perhaps even some level of scaling with regard to the ship you'll use to do the job might help, e.g. "you can carry our 100t in your creaky old Asp, sure, where the loads are secured by rope and the canisters come out with icicles on them. but if you carry it in your Cutter, with its teflon floor rails, inertia-damped bays and ComfortZone(tm) environment conditioning, we'll double your money."

 

[Zeta Legion]

there seemed to be an undercurrent of "we don't want players buying Anacondas too easily or too early" hence missions offering pittance even at upper ranks - but any Elite or near-Elite pilot would already have bucketloads of cash and one or more 'end game' ships, as a result of their long slog through the game so far. paying high ranked pilots in peanuts is trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted - we already have our Cutters and Corvettes! now we want to see a significant increase in our bank balance after we cart your junk from A to B, as a sign that you know you're getting the best service available from a skilled operator

there are of course those who say "it's not about the credits!" - which is of course, pure rubbish. if it wasn't about the credits, you'd earn each ship directly as a reward for service to a particular entity, instead of waltzing into a shop and buying it with cash as we do in ED. therefore credits matter, and to a large extent they determine what your next move will be

i have over 3,000 hours of game time in ED - stop feeding me crumbs, i want a slice of pie.


---> with regard to assets, perhaps even some level of scaling with regard to the ship you'll use to do the job might help, e.g. "you can carry our 100t in your creaky old Asp, sure, where the loads are secured by rope and the canisters come out with icicles on them. but if you carry it in your Cutter, with its teflon floor rails, inertia-damped bays and ComfortZone(tm) environment conditioning, we'll double your money."

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Regarding cargo missions specifically, the reward should be based purely on tonnage rather than what you are hauling specifically. All commodities take the same amount of space, so we should be paid the same rate for the use of our cargo holds.

 

[Andovar]

In response to the OP. While I hope that there are more complex missions and more mission variations. What has been shown goes a long way to improving how player interact with the missions that are currently in the game. Giving the mission givers a face, creates a connection, having dialog that is modified by your standing with them helps a player connect their actions to the game world. While it might not seem like much to some, it does go a long way to changing the game world into a living breathing universe.

I agree.
Although I still share the same concerns as the OP.
Everything in newsletter 121 looked and sounded awesome. But there's still that nagging feeling, are missions going to be the same old thing under the covers?

I'm so itching for some dynamic or spontaneous missions to "pop up" in space, rather than always having to visit a bulletin board. That would really make the universe feel alive.
Though even if the 2.1 missions are "lipstick on a pig" as some have said, there's still a lot to like about the 2.1 changes. Definitely feels like things moving in a nice direction.

 

[clivewil]

I'm so itching for some dynamic or spontaneous missions to "pop up" in space, rather than always having to visit a bulletin board.

i've already had two of that type appear, in the current game version - both times i was on my way home to log off when a little blue box suddenly appeared in the comms tab with an urgent mission that needed doing. i did them both more out of guilt and fear than anything - i.e. who will do it if i don't? and what happens to my rep if i don't?

 

[Zeta Legion]

i've already had two of that type appear, in the current game version - both times i was on my way home to log off when a little blue box suddenly appeared in the comms tab with an urgent mission that needed doing. i did them both more out of guilt and fear than anything - i.e. who will do it if i don't? and what happens to my rep if i don't?

Nothing happens if you ignore said popups, aside from possibly saving time.

 

[Barking_Mad]

There's passenger missions to come later in the year.

 

[nosscar]

To be honest this whole thread is moot just now, we have to wait and see how it plays out.
Missions alone is not the main factor, but how they tie in with the other changes, i would not mind fetching 4t of tea, if that means i will progress to something more than just fetching another 4t of tea, ie, advances my progress, rank, and more interesting missions down the line.

Just have to play in beta to find out first.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Just looked at the newsletter. Maybe it is just me or the way that they presented the changes, but so far I just see the same old missions in a shiny new packaging. I hope that this is not the case, as it would be a major disappointment.

My view, as I have stated elsewhere, is that this Newsletter no more has all the details about mission changes than it has *all* the details about Engineers & module upgrades. After all, if we were to only use the Newsletters-so far-to judge engineers, then we'd simply be writing it off as a handful of experimental weapons mods.....which we know is not the case. 1.5/2.0 was the first attempt at bringing in more complex mission types & mechanics (rescue missions, escort missions, meeting with a third party missions, don't get scanned missions, timed assassination missions, multi-part missions, off bulletin board missions). Sadly, in their rush to get it into the Horizons update, it came out buggy & looking half-baked. This time, though, they'll have had a full six months to iron out all the bugs, & to properly implement fully chained (multi-part) mission systems & off-board mission systems (missions obtainable from NPC's in space, or as a result of salvage).

If this has been done properly, then I feel very confident that we won't be seeing "Same old in New Package", but a mission system that can definitely qualify as a "Mission OVERHAUL". I'll wait & see before passing final judgment. Either way, merely personalizing the mission-givers, greater context for doing missions, & greater variety in rewards & consequences for doing missions will satisfy me a lot!

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What worried me was the low payouts. Let's hope they scale up nicely once you get more trusted, 50k is pretty damn low if you have 10 mill assets like the CMDR in the picture

That screenshot was just a mock-up/artist's impression, only there to give us an indication of how the mission-givers & mission page will look. They make it clear that it doesn't represent the final product.

The characterful new missions board. The above image is a work in progress and contains placeholder text and imagery in some places.

....and also don't forget that credits won't be the only payout available anymore. My hope is that, eventually, payouts can even include experimental modules for your ship or even a new ship!

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Taking into account that USS will be overhauled and getting mission with a specifc one on a specific place will be possible. Meaning those "get flight recorder and bring them to me" will be more likely to be from a random spawn in a random USS to be more like.

"We lost a ship dont know what happend, last coordinates are system X near planet Y go their and find the ship and bring us its flight recorder" You then fly to that system, if you dont have the cartogrphics datas you can use the nav beacon their to get all informations and then fly to your destination, get to that signal source, grab the recorder or even have a fight their.

It would be still the old boring mission but with a lot more structure in it , thats what i hope for the new mission system nothing more.

Actually, throw in chained missions, & it doesn't have to be "the old boring mission". You go & pick up the Flight Recorder, as instructed. You then get a mission update popping up, telling you that the pilot was kidnapped by a rival faction, & giving you a system to go to as a starting point in order to find the kidnapper. Then it becomes a Hostage Rescue mission. As an added wrinkle, when you return the kidnapped pilot, you might get a mission to assassinate the person who ordered the kidnapping.

Another potential wrinkle, without the chained mission? You rock up at the destination, but just as you're about to scoop the flight recorder you get set upon by 3-4 ships from the rival faction, who were lying in wait to ambush the person they suspected would be along to pick up the recorder.

Both of these wrinkles use existing game mechanics, so we can see how easy it is to turn "the old boring mission" into something much, much more interesting.

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In response to the OP. While I hope that there are more complex missions and more mission variations. What has been shown goes a long way to improving how player interact with the missions that are currently in the game. Giving the mission givers a face, creates a connection, having dialog that is modified by your standing with them helps a player connect their actions to the game world. While it might not seem like much to some, it does go a long way to changing the game world into a living breathing universe.

Also, the fact that the types of missions are effected by, & in turn effect, the state of the system you're in will help to further build that connection IMHO.

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Was really hoping for wing based missions with the mission update.

Well hopefully that is still on the cards. Absence of proof is not proof of absence .

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Don't worry about that. The screen was from my dev account and the 10 million credits doesn't correspond to my progress at all.

Has your dad been loaning you money again Ed?

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Yes, no and HELL YES!

My only point of issue comes from my memory of playing an ancient (1986 - yes I am that old) helicopter game Gunship, by Microprose. Although their two-sequential-objectives missions were all pretty stock, what was hugely engaging and enjoyable was that any mission could, and often did, change, and at any point during the mission - sometimes moments after take-off, and sometimes on the way home.

So you could set off in one direction to interdict tanks, only to be redirected 'as a priority' to another location to support ground armour against an air threat.

Now I fully appreciate that ED is a very different game-world to Gunship, but the constant and lingering doubt always made each mission an adventure, and really kept you on your toes.

To be clear - this was not a 'follow me as I want to make you an alternate offer' - it was 'your mission has changed, do it or consider you have failed'.

Well they have mentioned making improvements to the Branching mission system, so hopefully that will go towards achieving the goal you just stated.