I'm concerned – the direction of the game.

[Mazhurg]

And the game really is going the way that most of the playerbase will be hidden.

For risk of going around the mulberry bush again, they are not hidden, you will see them, communicate with them, attack them, friend them, Etc. You just need to ascertain that they are either players or AI. And it's not very difficult either.

In addition, Eve related - One of the things that always turned me off when playing was gating into a system, under stealth and yet having my name and picture appears on that darn chat box for all to see. What was the point of trying to spy, with a cloaked ship when the whole system knew you where there? Now, that was realistic.

 

[JeffRyan]

From EVE.

If you read my posts you'll find I'm not the stereotypical eve player. THIS is a good place to start.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Not knowing who's a player or an NPC is a great anti-griefing measure, but it comes at the cost of being an anti-any-kind-of-interaction measure.

Says who? We haven't seen how the comms will work yet. But I doubt you will have to know the name and phone number of any ship you want to communicate with before you can do so.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

I don't see that explaining why you consider your view more aligned with FD's vision. Let's not forget that their first port of call in the game was to distinguish between PCs and NPCs... Whether that was interim I don't know. But if I was a developer I'd probably debut a departure from the "norm" at the earliest opportunity to trial it, rather than give what's expected and than drastically change it.

True. Some have said that they think Sandro is in favour of hiding the status, but my recollection was that they seemed to be quite surprised that a significant number of people wanted to hide that status. The poll seemed to me at the time to be more a response to that discovery than something they had planned to do all along.

That comment was more about the "do anything you like but with consequences" stuff which is so against what many of the PvPers seem to want and expect. Cosmos is even floating the idea of a mode where the penalties are much reduced to facilitate that.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

True. Some have said that they think Sandro is in favour of hiding the status, but my recollection was that they seemed to be quite surprised that a significant number of people wanted to hide that status. The poll seemed to me at the time to be more a response to that discovery than something they had planned to do all along.

Quite - during the KS they said that you would know PC pilots.

 

[Stachel]

Quite - during the KS they said that you would know PC pilots.

Yeah and in the Old Testament wasn't there something about coveting your brother's wife?

 

[Herik]

YES! ABSOLUTELY! A seemless, open-world experience with no distinction between player and AI would be a holy grail gaming moment for me. The distinction only exists because we don't have PCs powerful enough yet to give truly 'human-like' AI in all aspects (and won't for a few centuries yet probably).

You seem to somehow equate single-player as being lesser to multi-player? Surely, in an ideal world, the single- or multi- experience would be identical? I'd rather the game was an 'open-world, dynamic universe simulator' in any game mode.

Me too; Lobstris!

 

[StarTux]

I must admit I haven't read each reply, just too much.

Overall I think we just need to have these options tested, whatever backgrounds we have with Eve, WoW flightsims etc, Elite Dangerous is going to be quite different and evolutionary, so our visualizations are naturally tied to older generations of games.

What I think we should be careful of is this:

I look forward to testing Elite further over the coming months.

 

[Crayfish]

Yes, I accept that interacting with PCs will be inherently more interesting than interacting with NPCs.

I don't even accept that assertion. In most MMORPGs I've played, ninety percent of the time player characters completely ignore each other anyway. The most meaningful multiplayer interactions usually happen because players have teamed up using a system outside of chance meetings. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had fun social interactions by meeting somebody randomly in a multiplayer game.

I also predict that I'll double that number in Elite: Dangerous even if it does have PC's and NPC's that are represented the same. That's because when I meet another ship out beyond the Frontier it will be a meaningful and rare meeting between explorers. If NPC explorers exist I'll hail them to see if they are real or an NPC. If they don't respond as a human would I'll move on. Even if it is another player I'll respect the fact that they don't feel social.

 

[Caribou]

I do not know why people want to immediately identify other PCs other than 'so I can attack them'. Yes, I accept that interacting with PCs will be inherently more interesting than interacting with NPCs. But I still do not want to be attacked for no good in-game reason. The downsides of immediately putting "flashing blue lights" on PCs seem obvious to me. I still await any coherent explanation of the upsides that proponents obviously see, but I don't.

If we has an environment where co-op play was rewarded rather than combat oriented PvP we might want to know others to help them. You will counter this with NPCs can be helped as well but that will be tedious and unrewarding because it will be a momentary interaction (likely a mission) that will end. Friendship gained through co-op will be lasting (potentially)

+1 to Barns' post so many pages ago and for the record I will play in All (all the time, and I will attack/hide based on my play situation) but I want to know whether the opponent I face is human ALL the time instantly. I'm with Jeff/Cosmos here.

I want social interactions but if we get this half way house I'll treat everyone like an NPC - I will kill and reap cargo from the fruit of the space lanes... If I know if you are a PC i would actually think twice about it...

EDIT: I'm tired and if this doesn't make sense... meh. I'm going to bed...

 

[metatheurgist]

Well, here's one very good reason - communicating with other players to find out what's happening in neighbouring systems so that you can avoid pirate gangs, griefers or any other players you'd prefer not to meet while you're hauling that belly-load of computers and luxuries.

Not knowing who's a player or an NPC is a great anti-griefing measure, but it comes at the cost of being an anti-any-kind-of-interaction measure.

Who says NPCs won't deliver the same information, if they're a sociable and friendly NPC? You might run into a unsociable NPC that ignores your hails. Guess what? the same thing could happen with a PC! They might feel like ignoring you or they'll give you a canned response. Won't it be awesome when you discover after some responses that you've found a real human from the friendly chat?

I'll probably be playing a "good guy" and will help out when I can. Whether it's an NPC being attacked or an PC being attacked. Won't it be great when after the fight instead of getting a canned "thanks" response you discover you've found a player! You fly to the station together, do some trade routes, form a co-op, get rich, get poor then have a horrible argument and never see each other again! Yay, MP!

This game is going to be social as hell. The argument that not being able to identify PCs makes the game not MP or unsocial holds no water.

That's not even counting people who already know each other deliberately meeting in the game to play together.

 

[Jason S]

I know this is not going to be but my favourite option would be an all player group that is PVE only where you did know who was a player but your shields and/or weapons were such that you could not harm each other pilot federation members (I.e. Players) just could harm other non members (I.e NPC's). This would encourage team play against the environment and completely eliminating griefing.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Unfortunately Bo - that would eliminate nothing.

Image what would happen if three or four people determined to give you a bad day, and hugged their ships up against yours so you couldn't go anywhere.

You couldn't even shoot them off.

 

[Fromhell]

Being able to play solo or in groups allows people who don't want to be involved in PvP to have that choice.

there are approximately 400 000 000 000 places to hide from the evil griefers waiting everywhere, but let´s be grateful for the additional option to hide via menu button which is

1) totally not out of fiction
2) totally not opening up any exploit possibilities
3) totally not ending up as a meta game
4) totally necessary, besides already having SP player offline and SP online mode
5) totally not path of least resistance

PVE-only FTW, you can never have enough options to make this type of player happy, setting completely new standards here

 

[JeffRyan]

there are approximately 400 000 000 000 places to hide from the evil griefers waiting everywhere, but let´s be grateful for the additional option to hide via menu button which is

1) totally not out of fiction
2) totally not opening up any exploit possibilities
3) totally not ending up as a meta game
4) totally necessary, besides already having SP player offline and SP online mode
5) totally not path of least resistance

PVE-only FTW, you can never have enough options to make this type of player happy, setting completely new standards here

Finding myself in agreement with FH... is worrisome.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Love this idea I think it's a perfect compromise.

It is no compromise at all.

Until they've paid off the character's debt/bounty that character remains in play - no delete. Someone wants to play just to PK for no in-game reason then their 3 character slots will all be screwed in fairly short order.

Very elegant and as Liqua said "Perfect!".

there are approximately 400 000 000 000 places to hide from the evil griefers waiting everywhere, but let´s be grateful for the additional option to hide via menu button which is

1) totally not out of fiction
2) totally not opening up any exploit possibilities
3) totally not ending up as a meta game
4) totally necessary, besides already having SP player offline and SP online mode
5) totally not path of least resistance

PVE-only FTW, you can never have enough options to make this type of player happy, setting completely new standards here

1) Why is the equivalent if an IFF transponder a work of fiction?
2) Depends on when you can change the state of the transponder and whether all alliance members require to have the same setting.
3) see 2.
4) You are under a misapprehension - the All Group is by definition for all players, not just those with a particular play style. Players who wish to PvE co-operatively should be able to enjoy playing there.
5) Are those who make statements regarding "the path of least resistance" going to go out of their way to make the game as hard as possible for themselves? I thought not. Players use what works for them - there will be lots of different preferred methods of achieving aims. Regarding "path of least resistance", teaming up with other players falls into this category doesn't it? I mean, a fair fight may not be in their interests....

 

[deusx_ophc]

thanks cosmos for bringing this up again. and jeffryan - you are not alone!

just to restate my view from the ddf thread

i voted "I want to know if the ship is human the moment it resolves "

ED is already a heavily fragmented game (instancing/group system/several non-inclusive play modes/founders system) trying to ensure a homogeneous game experience for a number of player types.

i have really only one interest in ED. that is meeting human players and play the game together with them, cross the galaxy with or against them. form a band of brothers & sisters for a common cause.

the motto "the more the merrier" has been the core of my online gaming over the last few years. where more players from a diverse background with diverse characters and ideas about the game only enrich the overall experience. yes, this includes scammers, griefers and all sorts of unsavory types.

this motto makes perfect sense if you are pretending to live in a near enough endless galaxy. due to the fragmentation you are likely to meet a lot of human players near central systems and can expect to travel the galaxy without meeting humans for days. in both cases it is a lesser experience if you miss a friends or fellow human soul because you cannot scan everyone in time or have given up on scanning 000's of npcs.

not knowing what type of encounter i face unless i scan will only do 2 things

a) get me bored for having to scan a myriad of NPCs
b) make me angry of missing human players (like some of you folks from the forum)

both experience will lessen the overall ED experience (good or bad) and eventually will make me stop playing.







tl;dr

i rather be shot up twice a day by a human evil ******* then having to scan everything in the name of health & safety and immersion in a bland, fragmented ED galaxy.

i) immersion is futile, as i am not clever enough to suspend the disbelieve (it is always me with a bunch of low-tech gear in front of a screen, not me in a cobra mkiii)

ii) safety is futile, because i will be killed and i will die.a.lot. by whom is of no interest to me

iii) npc's are forever the blandest possible experience. there is no challenege (social or gaming wise) involved. just you try a rubber blow up doll next time

 

[JeffRyan]

The fact that Elite Dangerous's galaxy is mindboggingly big is probably the best argument I've seen against this further fragmenting of players.

 

[Robert Maynard]

iii) npc's are forever the blandest possible experience. there is no challenege (social or gaming wise) involved. just you try a rubber blow up doll next time

Thank you indeed for making the case for player obfuscation.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

a) get me bored for having to scan a myriad of NPCs

• If you're a bounty hunter you're going to scan ships prior to shooting them to determine if they have a bounty or not.
• If you're a pirate you're likely to scan ships prior to attacking to ensure they have cargo - no point attacking them otherwise
• If you're a psychopath and about to commit murder you won't care.
• A trader will be docked a fair amount of time scouring the commodities board - allow people to meet n greet in the stations
• An explorer won't care .. they're off in a remote corner of the universe ermm .. exploring

Ergo - a normal person is going to scan things as a result of their role, and those that don't will meet in other places (most likely). The "bored of scanning" is a non starter.