The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[Tuub t Tute]

Consider what is currently the most recent Twitter post by Mr. Smart:

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/736706877095088132

Why would I do that? I know who Derek is and what his position is. His voice is one of many points of view about SC. What possible reason would I (or anyone else) have for thinking "If Derek said it, it must be true!".

Any more than thinking "If Chris Roberts said it, it must be true!".

Critical thinking requires the reading and analysis of multiple sources and weighing up their veracity and their bias in order to form a position the individual is comfortable with.

So you running in here saying you want to save the sheeple from Voldemort is daft.

 

[Toumal]

ED."

This thread would be fine if it were full of rational arguments and facts, but the average line of commentary goes:

"chris roberts promised me a $20 million space game in 2014, but then got $100 million and wanted to make a $100 million space game (which the community voted on and agreed with) HOW DARE HE"

I wish this were true. However, so far nothing CIG put out has the hallmarks of a 100mil game, except for the mesh and texture assets which are top notch.

Would you like to rephrase your point?

 

[swfanatic717]

Consider what is currently the most recent Twitter post by Mr. Smart:

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/736706877095088132



So, here's the thing; aUEC contains no cash value in Star Citizen. You cannot purchase it, you cannot sell it. It is a test currency used in the test environment, that can only be earned by completing missions and objectives. Requiring a test server player to wait or earn in-game currency before they can retrieve another specific model of ship is the beginning of assigning value to ships, encouraging players to fly their ships with some degree of caution, and participate in objectives to earn more aUEC.

Thus this Twitter statement by Derek where he applies a real-world cash value to aUEC, is patently false, and specifically aimed at stirring up FUD where Star Citizen is confirmed, and is a fairly typical occurrence. This is the kind of thing that I'm interested in addressing in this thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I see a lot of opinions colored by what I know to be misinformation as it pertains to Star Citizen, and much of it is due to blatantly false statements such as the one issued above. It's difficult to have an objective conversation weighing the facts versus one another (here are pros, here are cons, is SC worth?) when the facts are being bent by individuals with an agenda.

Seeing as literally nobody in this thread has even tried to pass off this misrepresentation as truth (because basically all of us don't buy most of DS's drivel), I suppose I should congratulate you on setting up a target for yourself and then striking it beautifully.

 

[Electrofreak]

UEC (cash currency) exists though, doesn't it?

aUEC is the test currency they are using in "the environment"... can't think of what else to call it without getting someone's back up.

My thought then is if that number is accurate when applied to UEC, why make it so big in "the environment" that it will be perceived as a drama hook? If all they want to do is test persistence and show peoples' funds counting down, pick a smaller number and avoid any possible cross-referencing?

SC has to succeed, so that all the PvPers can finally have a game they deserve.

Correct, aUEC is the test currency on the alpha PU.

UEC is something that you can purchase. Few people do, because anything you can "buy" with UEC, you can rent with fairly-easy-to-acquire REC (earned by participating in multiplayer "Arena Commander" matches).

So it would be a legitimate concern if this mechanic, implemented just weeks ago and still being tweaked, were to be applied to UEC at any point in the near future. This is pretty unlikely, and CIG has talked about converting aUEC (possibly at a 2:1 ratio or some such) to UEC at some point significantly down the road (at release? at Beta launch? who knows).

But to say that a test currency being used to test the functionality of a new mechanic (which still has to be fleshed out considerably with the inclusion of insurance and actual in-game ship purchasing rather than spawning ships for "free") has a cash value is certainly false, and the potential implication that the whole thing is representative of any kind of business model would be a long stretch.

Seeing as literally nobody in this thread has even tried to pass off this misrepresentation as truth (because basically all of us don't buy most of DS's drivel), I suppose I should congratulate you on setting up a target for yourself and then striking it beautifully.

It was an example of a blatant mistruth coming from someone that many people in this thread seem perfectly willing to believe.

I mean:

Good, that is facts, I don't know how it works but if that is how it works, you're right and he is wrong.

 

[swfanatic717]

"chris roberts promised me a $20 million space game in 2014, but then got $100 million and wanted to make a $100 million space game (which the community voted on and agreed with) HOW DARE HE"

I wasn't aware of that (only started following when Alpha slots were available). Can you send me a link to the vote and the published results thereof? They would be useful as proof that this direction change was actually demanded by the community as well as the ratio of people for and against the change.

I know who would win that fight

Ah, but I beg to differ!

 

[Electrofreak]

I wasn't aware of that (only started following when Alpha slots were available). Can you send me a link to the vote and the published results thereof? They would be useful as proof that this direction change was actually demanded by the community as well as the ratio of people for and against the change.

https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12760-Poll-Additional-Stretch-Goals

I'll try to grab you the rest.

 

[idkmybffjill]

I wish this were true. However, so far nothing CIG put out has the hallmarks of a 100mil game, except for the mesh and texture assets which are top notch.

Would you like to rephrase your point?

Woah. You just completely contradicted yourself. You say NOTHING they've put out has the hallmarks of a $100mill game, and then you say EXCEPT the assets. So then that IS something, and the game is being built to that level of detail. Not tomention the a-list actors being mo-capped directly in-game on a level seen in only the cutting edge of AAA games.

So uh... you wanna rethink your point?

 

[1500]

https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12760-Poll-Additional-Stretch-Goals

I'll try to grab you the rest.

Hi Max

Nope, try again.

Fact is that CIG never asked the backers. In fact as CR stated that the stretch goals would be for after the launch of the game, CIG gave the exact opposite impression. Also CR is on record stating that bringing in more money would mean that the Stretch goals would be finished sooner and more content would be in the 2014 release.

 

[Rilzi]

I can understand him, normally this is a thread about talking about star citizen. But most of the threads here are drama. You want to post the newest news of this game and talk about it? Not possible here because you get instead spammed to death with the typical same cig bashing postings over and over again.

That is very frustating for people who just want to talk about this game. When was the last time that here people talked about what weapons they should use on their ships, or answering questions about the game or any other kind of normal talk you have in any other sc forums (which dont get closed every few weeks). Currently this here seems to be a sc hater vs sc fanboys thread with no end (Because you cannot change other peoples minds). I really would like to talk about this game, but currently it is impossible here. For me, you guys destroyed this thread, thanks!

I would love it if the mods would create a secound sc thread for normal disscussion and an another one for people who just want to discharge their daily hate on this game.
No problem with bad or good opinions about sc, but i think it goes to far if the disscussion get killed.

I liked having Max, and before him MrNovak here - having contradicting opinions made the discussions here more interesting. But at the end of the day 1: This isn't the sc forum - this is the sc thread on frontiers forum. If you want specific discussion about aspects within sc and not general talk - the sc forums are far better bet.

2:What is there positive to talk about? That's kinda the problem. You want to talk about the game? What specifically? The flight model still sucks? FPS is still janky? Updates are still insanely large? There isn't much to talk about. Talking about gameplay or loadouts is rather pointless as the game is in such an early state that it doesn't really matter, there's not much to talk about regarding upcoming features/updates/etc as who knows what is coming - or when it will come, so discussion naturally turns to 'lol CIG'. If 2.5 came out tomorrow and was awesome, there'd be plenty of positivity here.

I think there are more neutrals here than you think. There are a few that are decidedly negative, most neutral, and a few positive. I consider myself (relatively) neutral on Star Citizen right now, I think that 2016 is the year for CIG to succeed or fail. I can certainly see why someone would be negative, looking at a list of what was promised to what's been delivered - even if you went in blind Star Citizen is a pretty meh experience. However I don't see how a rational person could be positive about Star Citizen right now. They've racked up such a list of failure, delay, and outright mediocrity that being positive right now just seems suspicious.

 

[swfanatic717]

https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12760-Poll-Additional-Stretch-Goals

I'll try to grab you the rest.

Huh, never seen that before so that's certainly eye-opening, thanks.

2 comments off the top of my head:

1) The votes add up to 237% so I assume the poll allowed selection of more than one option per voter? The top comment by Manoekin says "Maximum number of choices allowed: 1" so I'm a bit confused as to which the case was.

2) None of those are majority votes, why did they then proceed with basically all of the things in the list?

 

[Rilzi]

Woah. You just completely contradicted yourself. You say NOTHING they've put out has the hallmarks of a $100mill game, and then you say EXCEPT the assets. So then that IS something, and the game is being built to that level of detail. Not tomention the a-list actors being mo-capped directly in-game on a level seen in only the cutting edge of AAA games.

So uh... you wanna rethink your point?

You know i was seriously hoping you were being sarcastic, but a quick check of your posting history suggests you are not. Oh dear.

 

[idkmybffjill]

You know i was seriously hoping you were being sarcastic, but a quick check of your posting history suggests you are not. Oh dear.

Oh yes here you come in with your cute comment with nothing of merit to say. How novel. You see yourself as neutral but you're not. You're as biased as they come against SC.

 

[lysan]

I wasn't aware of that (only started following when Alpha slots were available). Can you send me a link to the vote and the published results thereof? They would be useful as proof that this direction change was actually demanded by the community as well as the ratio of people for and against the change.



Ah, but I beg to differ!

Only 20k backers voted, that is really not an even close representative for the entire community at that time.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13266-Letter-From-The-Chairman-19-Million

 

[Electrofreak]

Only 20k backers voted, that is really not an even close representative for the entire community at that time.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13266-Letter-From-The-Chairman-19-Million

What's your point? You can't force people to vote. I mean hell, in the US, roughly half of the population capable of voting even shows up once every 4 years to vote for a new president.

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Hi Max

Nope, try again.

Fact is that CIG never asked the backers. In fact as CR stated that the stretch goals would be for after the launch of the game, CIG gave the exact opposite impression. Also CR is on record stating that bringing in more money would mean that the Stretch goals would be finished sooner and more content would be in the 2014 release.

I'm not Max, try again.

I'm https://www.reddit.com/user/Electr0freak/, look me up.

As for never asking backers: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13944-Letter-From-The-Chairman-46-Million

You want so hard to be right, but you can't be bothered to do a quick Google search before opening your mouth on stuff like this?

 

[Rilzi]

Oh yes here you come in with your cute comment with nothing of merit to say. How novel. You see yourself as neutral but you're not. You're as biased as they come against SC.

Very well. To address your point - your argument is so bad I thought you must be parodying the worst kind of SC white knight. Toumal said 'However, so far nothing CIG put out has the hallmarks of a 100mil game, except for the mesh and texture assets'

Woah. You just completely contradicted yourself. You say NOTHING they've put out has the hallmarks of a $100mill game, and then you say EXCEPT the assets. So then that IS something, and the game is being built to that level of detail.

That's not a contradiction. At all. He said that the assets are good. 'Nothing - except for'... eesh. Sorry but that was a bad argument. Just... bad.

Not tomention the a-list actors being mo-capped directly in-game on a level seen in only the cutting edge of AAA games.

A point - but mo-capped a-list actors isn't really a cutting edge feature - just an expensive one. Which to be fair is something that would push a budget out to the 100mil range. Not really something that's a good defense of CIG's spending though. And it is a feature we haven't seen outside of a few small sneak peaks.

 

[lysan]

What's your point? You can't force people to vote. I mean hell, in the US, roughly half of the population capable of voting even shows up once every 4 years to vote for a new president.

What a lame excuse, you claim that the majority voted for this to happen, I say no they didn't, only a small fraction of the active forum members did.
Did they send out a voting note via email? did they give people any chance to chip in with their opinions?
No, no no no no.

And back to your US voting bias, there the campaigns run for a long time before you even are allowed to vote. Here it was a blitz vote system.

 

[tooterfish]

Woah. You just completely contradicted yourself. You say NOTHING they've put out has the hallmarks of a $100mill game, and then you say EXCEPT the assets. So then that IS something, and the game is being built to that level of detail. Not tomention the a-list actors being mo-capped directly in-game on a level seen in only the cutting edge of AAA games.

So uh... you wanna rethink your point?

You realise that "nothing... except" is a perfectly acceptable turn of phrase amongst normally socialised people, and it doesn't warrant the level of logical analysis you're apparently giving it here?

You see yourself as neutral but you're not. You're as biased as they come against SC.

Who's more likely to be biased, the people who participate in a wide range of discussions on this forum, or the people who've joined purely to evangelise about one single topic and never participate in discussions about anything else?

 

[lysan]

What's your point? You can't force people to vote. I mean hell, in the US, roughly half of the population capable of voting even shows up once every 4 years to vote for a new president.

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I'm not Max, try again.

I'm https://www.reddit.com/user/Electr0freak/, look me up.

As for never asking backers: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13944-Letter-From-The-Chairman-46-Million

You want so hard to be right, but you can't be bothered to do a quick Google search before opening your mouth on stuff like this?

LMAO = Total Votes: 34481

'Nuff said. -_-

 

[Rilzi]

What a lame excuse, you claim that the majority voted for this to happen, I say no they didn't, only a small fraction of the active forum members did.
Did they send out a voting note via email? did they give people any chance to chip in with their opinions?
No, no no no no.

And back to your US voting bias, there the campaigns run for a long time before you even are allowed to vote. Here it was a blitz vote system.

An interesting question would be even if 51% of all backers voted yes - would the backers who voted no (or not voted at all) be entitled to a refund? After all, they signed up for a $20 million 2 year in development game.

 

[1500]

What's your point? You can't force people to vote. I mean hell, in the US, roughly half of the population capable of voting even shows up once every 4 years to vote for a new president.

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I'm not Max, try again.

I'm https://www.reddit.com/user/Electr0freak/, look me up.

As for never asking backers: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13944-Letter-From-The-Chairman-46-Million

Well welcome to the forum 1 day old account. Hope you like ED.

Nope, that asks if they should offer stretch goals, not take in more money or stop expanding the scope. As CR keeps expanding the scope of the game with out stretch goals (see ship sales, 10 ftcm, blaming stretch goals (you know the goals for after the game was finished, or the other narrative CR gave, goals that would not effect the release date of SC) just does not work.

Lets go straight to the man him self.

Letter from the Chairman: $46 Million
[URL="http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/358547,chris-roberts-addresses-feature-creep-as-star-citizen-makes-20-million.aspx"]http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/358547,chris-roberts-addresses-feature-creep-as-star-citizen-makes-20-million.aspx[/URL]

There has been some concern about “feature creep” with the additional stretch goals. You should all know that we carefully consider the goals we announce. Typically the stretch goals fall into two categories;

The first are goals that involve features we already have planned or have implemented, but we couldn’t create content because of budgetary constraints. The first person combat on select planets is a great example of this type of goal. We already have FPS combat as part of the game in ship boarding, and we already have most of this already functional thanks to CryEngine, as we essentially have Crysis3 functionality out of the box. But creating all the environments and assets to fill them is a huge task, so we were planning on not doing any planetside combat initially, simply because of its cost, with the idea that we would slowly roll it out once the game is live. But with the additional funds we can now afford to create some of this content earlier rather than later.

The facial capture system is an example of the second type, where we identify technology and equipment that will make the game better and allow us to be more nimble and economically efficient in continually creating content for the ongoing universe that we are aiming to support. The motion capture system and sound studio were goals that feel into this category.

But both types of goals are carefully considered — we don’t commit to adding features that would hold up the game’s ability to go “live” in a fully functional state. Also remember that this is not like a typical retail boxed product — there is no rule that all features and content have to come online at the same time! As you can see from the Hangar Module we plan to make functionality and content come on line as it’s ready, so you should look at the stretch goals as a window into the future of functionality and content additions we plan for the live game.

So in other words, CR stated that Stretch goals would not effect the game's release, and that this was stuff CIG wanted to do anyway. So why should people not vote for it?

Edit: Nice editing in a personal attack, too bad you are wrong, but oh well. Better luck next time. You should attempt to follow SC a little better. Or at least read the links you provide (you linked to that quote).


Got to love CR's statement that they have FPS already working, yet its the most broken aspect of the project, years later. Makes you wonder if he has any clue at all about game development.