The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[swfanatic717]

If we're talking about this poll, keep in mind that those polled were allowed to pick 3 items they were most interested in.

That's fine, but even then none of the items passed 50%. None of them even passed 40%. That's a minority. Definitely not something that's been "agreed upon".

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Further work on vaulting is documented in the most recent monthly studio report under the Foundry 42 UK section:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15285-Monthly-Studio-Report

Question: Given that CIG has a vested interest in exaggerating progress and reporting positive news, on what grounds are we to believe that their studio reports and other publications are any more accurate and credible than a North Korean newspaper?

 

[Stigbob]

Vaulting is promised. It didn't make it into 2.2 because the player base demanded the physicalized EVA be fixed.

Further work on vaulting is documented in the most recent monthly studio report under the Foundry 42 UK section:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15285-Monthly-Studio-Report

Next question Dr. Dr. Smart? Keep in mind that you cannot ban me here for proving you wrong.

Ooooh now I'm all exited for Major Toms inevitable broken vaulting adventure video.

 

[dsmart]

Not true. Several of his predictions about personnel changes have turned out to be correct. He also correctly predicted that CiG wouldn't sue the Escapist...

Oh yeah, he told us about their $20,000 barista machine about 6 months before it was publicly revealed to anyone outside the company, so at least some of his sources are definitely insiders.

There's a LOT, and I actually have a list in an Evernote notebook. Off the top of my head, the most notable ones..

-Star Marine sh*t-canned
-Santa Monica relocation/office
-Austin downsized
-Several high profile exits
-SQ42 split
-Release plans (e.g. shops coming to PU before meaningful features, Nyx PG being an elaborate proof-of-concept con, PU 2.x being in maintenance mode with only revenue generating focus etc)
-Premature PTU 2.0 (in Dec) release in order to gain backer confidence and get more money
-Also dug up all the companies associated with this crap, even as they were denying it - on the record
-Chris and Sandi being married
-And most of what was revealed to The Escapist, already appeared in my blogs or my forum comment section in some form or another

 

[Electrofreak]

Yeah, keep telling yourself that. Me and those who know better, are still laughing at that. But hey, the more you repeat it, the more plausible it obviously sounds in your head. So please, by all means, continue doing what you're doing. Nobody can or is going to stop you.

I stand 100% by everything I've stated, and have unwavering confidence that the project is doomed, will fail, and will wipe every penny backers put into it. It's not a matter of if, but when. And posts like these, will stand the test of time and be right here for reference. So do that thing: bookmark it.

Prediction	Status
---------	----------
2.0 is not actually running 64-bit but is cheating by using planets as an origin for 32-bit positioning. 20 November	improbable
CIG does not have the tech for seamless FPS transitions 14 november 2015	FALSE
CIG is out of money 30th march 2016	Pending
Citizencon 1: Citizencon will havenothing tangible to show 10 october 2015	False: Citizencon showed they have the 64bit tech needed for creating the PU was working, it also showed the walkthrough on the Idris and the release of the starmap
Citizencon 2: They are going to show the opening cut-scene sequence for SQ42 with Gary Oldman giving his speech, someone flying and landing, NPCs waving etc. 10 october 2015	mostly true, the opening was the speech, no one flew or landed, some people sorta waved
Citizencon 3: They are going to show Star Marine. 10 october 2015	False
Citizencon 4: They are going to show multi-crew. Again. 10 october 2015	deceptive: they showed the current build of the baby PU which includes multicrew and FPS
Citizencon 5: And a new ship. Rumored to be the Vindicator fighter priced at $175 (UPDATE: This price has been increased I've heard) 10 october 2015	False, the ship was called the Sabre and the price was lower than 175$ not higher 10 october 2015
Derek Smart (regarding Citizencon) "most of audience are staff. few were fans" 12 October	FALSE
Derek Smart states he is still a backer 19 November 2015	False: seems to be a case of Derek Smart either being confused, lying or having his possible alt accounts canceled as of 30 march he claims no longer to be a backer
Derek Smart states that he has initiated legal action 24 august 2015	This is either false or no longer true, as Derek Smart now has stated he is not going to sue. He may nevertheless have 'initiated legal action' and heard that he cannot sue without arbitration.
Derek Smart vows to find out WHERE the money went, ALL OFF IT! [5 November 2015(https://archive.is/zdyQR)	PENDING: Smart Allegedly hired another firm for this though no evidence has been provided by Smart for this
Derek Smart will be releasing the names of ALL the ships going on sale at the anniversary stream	FAIL Derek Smart did not release any names before the sale
Derek Smart: "if they survive 2016, the next big piece of news is that the game is going to be ported to Xbox One." 1 December 2015	PENDING, also Chris Roberts never excluded the possibility
Derek Smart: "My goal is NOT to see Star Citizen fail." 5 November 2015	FALSEon October 5th he proclaimed "to burn it all down"
Derek Smart: CIG only has 8 million in cash left 24 september 2015	FALSE according to Derek Smart on 10 december 2015they now have 11,3 million left
Derek Smart: CIG will collapse in 90 days 6 October 2015(expires january 1st 2016)	obviously FALSE
Derek Smart: Star Marine was canceled at Citcon 12 October 2015	FALSEstar marine is still mentioned as in development
Derek Smart: The entire Austin Office will be shutdown, leaving only a skeleton crew at a new location 26 October 2015	False/Deceptive The whole statement seems contradictory either the entire office closes down or a skeleton crew remains. It is false that the entire office closes down, as an indicator of things going wrong it is deceptive. CIG is restructuring, some offices are increasing in size others are becoming smaller. As of may 2016 the Austin Office is still operational
I don’t believe that there will be anything tangible in the upcoming AC 2.0. 2 november 2015	FALSE, 2.0 has new (multicrew) ships, large maps, fps, quantum drive and quests.
if it was "ready", why would it need to be stagger released to only 1000 people? So no, it's not ready. And probably won't be until 2016 19 november 2015	FALSE 2.0 was released on 12-12-2015
Kate Russel Creator of the I'm Derek Smart video was fired from the BBC for policy violation 15 November	HILARIOUSLY FALSE As of 21 November Kate Russel is still listed as producer
Key people will leave CIG after the holiday 17 november 2015	FALSE we are well into 2016 and, so far no key people seem to have left. At this point this prediction is as valuable as saying it will rain at some point in the future
Mark Skelton and Jared talking about 2.0. Which clearly is NOT ready for release. 19 november 2015	FALSE: while 2.0 is not yet going to be widespread released (same with earlier releases), it is going to be released to 1000 backers for PTU testing, these backers are free to show and stream UPDATE: as of 12 december 2.0 is fully released
prediction	status
prediction	status
Star Citizen cannot pull off seamless planetary landings source	FALSE -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69ck049Bg_I
Star Citizens are in for a rude awakening in two weeks 25 March 2016	False, unless we should count the petty character assassination attempt of Ben Lesnick that as a tactic seems to belong more in the election primaries and does not actually relate to CIG and Star Citizen
Statement	status
Statement	status
Statements	Status
that 2.0 build won’t i) have fps (aka Star Marine) in it 2 november 2015	FALSE
The CIG businessmodel, beyond this $85m pledge phase, is unsustainable. 21 July 2015	False/Deceptive: CIG currently raised $105m, while on the long term it is of course uncertain if the crowdfund will continue at current rates it has proven to be sustainable beyond $85m and thus the prediction is currently false
Toast (a long time backer, mod and eventually paralegal at CIG) doesn't work anymore at CIG 14 april 2016	Hillariously false, he appeared at the reverse the verse episode no less than a day later
whatever they release as 2.0 is purely designed as more smoke and mirrors 2 november 2015	FALSE It may be a bit buggy, but it is a very solid foundation to be built upon.
Within the next few week everything not SQ42 related will be shut down30th march 2016	Well as of this writing it is april 20th, more or less three weeks later and it doesn't look like everything not SQ42 related shuts down, but for the sake of the argument lets wait for the release of PU2.4 to call this one false

Care to speak to any of these, Dr. Dr?

EDIT - OH WAIT! I forgot! These were all taken out of context!

 

[dsmart]

What are these financial reports that CIG are supposed to be producing? What's the driver behind this?

As an aside I'll chip in that I really think the majority on this thread would be delighted to see SQ42 and SC delivered, I certainly do.

Whether they will or not, well no one truly knows, whichever side of the fence they are on. My feeling is it's unlikely we'll see anything this year, but I don't view that per se as a problem. What I think is a valid concern are the missed deadlines so far, but with Erin involved we can perhaps hope matters will improve.

As I've said before, there's a cracking dissertation waiting for someone wanting to review game development in comparing ED, NMS and SC, and arguably a decent MBA too.

You read all about there over here.

 

[1500]

That's fine, but even then none of the items passed 50%. None of them even passed 40%. That's a minority. Definitely not something that's been "agreed upon".

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



Question: Given that CIG has a vested interest in exaggerating progress and reporting positive news, on what grounds are we to believe that their studio reports and other publications are any more accurate and credible than a North Korean newspaper?

Actually it has been proven over and over again in this thread that the studio reports don't mean anything. Just look at all the Star Marine studio posts and what came from any of that, there are a bunch of other instances as well, AI work as another example.

 

[proKar_garlic]

I have entire Evernote notebooks of everything. I have records of everything. That's why my Star Citizen blogs - all of them - cite all those sources when necessary.

e.g. just the other day some fool on Twitter was arguing with me about "vaulting" being promised. Claimed I was making ^%#%$%@ up. Until I yanked this out.

Thing is, even in the face of hardcore facts, these guys will still argue and try to find justification for their insane arguments. Oh, and as I type this, they're still arguing on Reddit that "Star Marine is still coming". Even after croberts has gone on the record saying that "it's already in the PU"; which ofc we know - for a fact - isn't true because what they've shown of Star Marine is definitely NOT in the PU.

Arguing with these guys is such a waste of time. But I do it because raising awareness is key to other backers not getting duped. If those guys want to keep putting money into the project, due to either sunk cost fallacy, cognitive dissonance of a combo of both, that's fine - let them. e.g. the latest JPEG (the Buccaneer) image of a ship, for a game that doesn't exist, just went on sale. Though it's doing even worse than the previous one, people still put almost $200K into buying it. That despite the fact that evidence is mounting that the funding chart is being manipulated by CIG in order to show false growth; thus roping in more unsuspecting backers.

"Raising awareness for people not getting duped?"

Have you no shame? How can you sleep at night?

Don't you have a game to finish?

Some more poor game artists from a poor eastern country to scam? (yes surprise surprise derek I know your dirty past).

Making them work double or nothing and them paying them a mere sum of what was agreed?
Ransoming them, threatening them to loose everything. Aspiring young artists living below the poverty line, taking advantage of them with promises and deceit.

This personal charade against Star Citizen and it's staff is a farce and nothing more the jealously, anyone that follows this and uses is personal war to engage and mock Star Citizen game and people that support it are no better than him, it's all about you're selfishness egos.
You couldn't care any less about gaming in general, it's exclusively personal nothing more than hate, envy and fear from other's ambition and success.

 

[Asp Explorer]

I simply find it amazing that so many people continue to focus on one individual and their activities on the internet, rather than discuss what is actually happening (or not) with the actual game in question.

I personally have nothing against the SC devs and I can really appreciate the amount of work that they have done. And re-done. And done again. And outsourced. And then re-done in-house. And then abandoned.

None of that is their fault. It is directly, and absolutely, the fault of leadership.

 

[lysan]

I simply find it amazing that so many people continue to focus on one individual and their activities on the internet, rather than discuss what is actually happening (or not) with the actual game in question.

I personally have nothing against the SC devs and I can really appreciate the amount of work that they have done. And re-done. And done again. And outsourced. And then re-done in-house. And then abandoned.

None of that is their fault. It is directly, and absolutely, the fault of leadership.

I approve this message.

 

[Electrofreak]

I simply find it amazing that so many people continue to focus on one individual and their activities on the internet, rather than discuss what is actually happening (or not) with the actual game in question.

I personally have nothing against the SC devs and I can really appreciate the amount of work that they have done. And re-done. And done again. And outsourced. And then re-done in-house. And then abandoned.

None of that is their fault. It is directly, and absolutely, the fault of leadership.

And honestly, I don't have a problem with this statement. Mistakes were made at the leadership level, there is no doubt of that. But for Derek Smart to come in here, tap the side of his nose, and claim that he knows that SC is going to fail is ridiculous. His track record speaks for itself.

I'm perfectly fine with letting the whole "Derek Smart is an angry man with an agenda" argument die if he'd actually stick to the facts himself. Watching him cite himself as a source over and over though is hilarious to witness.

Actually it has been proven over and over again in this thread that the studio reports don't mean anything. Just look at all the Star Marine studio posts and what came from any of that, there are a bunch of other instances as well, AI work as another example.

We know Star Citizen is vastly behind schedule. This isn't news to anyone. Star Marine was completed (or nearly so) by Illfonic, and Chris Roberts decided it wasn't up to his standards, and decided he wouldn't release it. The work was mostly done, it just wasn't delivered. The studio reports show that they're continuing to work on this stuff, and yes, they're a little too optimistic, but you can also read through countless monthly reports where it was documented that they were working on something, and it got released to the PU or AC. Item System 2.0 and the whole shopping / character/hanger/ship customization mechanic is the most recent example of this.

 

[proKar_garlic]

Jeeeez still a compulsive liar after all these years...

Is there no shame? No limits? Isn't there game to make? Some poor Eastern Europe game dev/artist to scam perhaps? (yeah I know "things", unfortunately)

Promising richness and wealth and them stealing work, forcing it trough ransom, making people work double even triple of what agreed just so they could get paid enough to put food on the table. Most of the times less than half of what was agreed?

That's one hell of a game/life legacy, broken promises and broken games, scamming, lying and deceit from inception to the end of times.

 

[dsmart]

Your point was about accurate predictions, not whether the rate of personnel churn is natural or not. He gave us actual names before the fact.

Again, a completely irrelevant attempt to redirect the point.

CiG threatened to sue the Escapist if they didn't take the existing articles down, not if they wrote new ones. The Escapist articles stayed up, and CiG didn't sue.

And again, completely irrelevant to the point. The insider info Derek got wasn't that they had a coffee machine, it's that they specifically had a $20,000 one. And it turned out to be 100% accurate, months later it was revealed they had a expensive commercial grade barista machine that just happened to be worth almost exactly $20,000... (it was actually the company that supplied the machine that technically revealed it, on facebook IIRC).

He's made predictions and given insider info that turned out to be true, so what you said is wrong. Stop trying to poison the well by saying he's never made an accurate prediction.

I would like to point out that The Escapist hasn't written another article because there's nothing new to write about. There was no legal activity, C&D or anything of the sort. How do I know this? Well gee, probably because I'm a central figure in that farce and my attorneys were directly involved. In fact, look at the type of coverage that SC has been getting since then. The majority of them are either riddled with skepticism or just the standard fare fluff piece. For more on media coverage, read this.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Forget Derek Smart. He's a nice guy - but he is not developing SC. He can only offer his own opinion and views on the subject, which is all that any of us can do. What really matters is what CIG do - what they say, what they promise, and what they deliver.

 

[Electrofreak]

I would like to point out that The Escapist hasn't written another article because there's nothing new to write about. There was no legal activity, C&D or anything of the sort. How do I know this? Well gee, probably because I'm a central figure in that farce and my attorneys were directly involved. In fact, look at the type of coverage that SC has been getting since then. The majority of them are either riddled with skepticism or just the standard fare fluff piece. For more on media coverage, read this.

I love how you ignored the list of over 2 dozen failed predictions by you about Star Citizen to talk about The Escapist article.
[haha]

I know you won't address those items directly, because you can't.

Forget Derek Smart. He's a nice guy - but he is not developing SC. He can only offer his own opinion and views on the subject, which is all that any of us can do. What really matters is what CIG do - what they say, what they promise, and what they deliver.

The nice part is debatable. He puts a nice face on when there's a microphone or a camera present, but when he's on the internet all he does is vomit pure bull. That says a lot about a person.

I agree, lets see what CIG does, rather than take the word of a someone who professes himself to be a competitor of that which he is playing a SJW for.

 

[proKar_garlic]

Yeap no coverage, much scepticism: It was only from the BBC one of the biggest news network in the world doing a piece on the game development, nothing much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0Jmywv3QjQ

Compulsive liar at it's finest

 

[Zyll Goliat]

My kudos goes to the @Lesabre the man who still keep up fighting it hard on the SC forum just with the power of his words even if he was been surrounded by multiple x"bloodthristy" "cult members............

Few quotes from this "brave" man(I almost dare to said a hero):

"How many games do you know that take a dedicated fps engine and mess up the fps part so bad it's like going back 15 years and playing ancient fps games? Please tell me so I can laugh at them instead."

"People like me are here to kick CIG up the ass when they go wrong, when they don't seem to be acting as good stewards with the publics money (it's still the publics money until the product is delivered, they do not own it until you own item), and to occasionally laugh at the odd idiot who thinks we are here to 'ruin' everything for everyone else (its a forum, what the hell could I possibly break or alter?) and to laugh at the ones that really don't seem to be playing the same PU as the rest of us, you know those, the "omg this is so impressive!! The door actually opens omg!!!1!!!11 I fell throught the floor omfg!!!1!!!11 I can fly in empty space squueee!!1!!!2 *fap/fart/feint*" like they've never played an open world game before."

"I think 10% is a very high ratio for what is there and how it's delivered, putting what is currently avalible from 2.4 in list form and then stacking it alongside the stretch goals and the other various things planned makes 2.4 look like a very small and singular step up a very long flight of stairs."

And yeah Lesabre formula of the CIG "success":

Ships:
1. Show off something new
2. Hype the thing constantly
3. Sell the thing for real money as concept
4. Delay the thing
5. Forget the thing/break the thing
6. Show off something new
7. Go to 1.

Gameplay systems:
1. Show off something new
2. Hype the thing constantly
3. Pitch the thing as "never done before" regardless of truth/accuracy of statement
4. Delay the thing
5. Forget the thing/claim it's already done
6. Forget that it's "already done" and tell people "it's coming"
7. Go to 1.

Game world:
1. Show off a big number of locations
2. Hype them up
3. Pitch them as "Incredibly detailed" and "interactive"
4. Delay them
5. Forget about them
6. Show off something new
7. Go to 1.


you guys can read more of this here:https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/330602/people-bad-mouthing-star-citizen/p1

 

[dsmart]

So true....What I finding really irritating is that the some of SC fans acting like if there was no DS everything will be just fine and all their trouble will be gone with the wind and the rest of"US"will never happened,like we was just an echo of DS mind....For god sake ppl. so many of us in here raise many concerns and point on potential CIG failures,mistakes and problems years before DS was writing his first critical blog,and this easily could be proven from net history until these days here or on the SC forum,ok maybe they could not see "US" all on the SC forum that often but that's probably because the "CULT" make sure to either burn us alive or to exile us forever......

Thing is, by making me the bogeyman, they have a common enemy - with a face, and a reputation attached. Which is precisely why stuff like this gets written.

The end result is that "croberts being wrong" is a lot better to them than "dsmart was right". And so it goes. Thing is, all the signs that this project is <MIA> are there. In fact, in our entire history (and I've been around for almost 3 decades) of gaming, other spectacular failures didn't have as many warning signs.

 

[Electrofreak]

My kudos goes to the @Lesabre the man who still keep up fighting it hard on the SC forum just with the power of his words even if he was been surrounded by multiple x"bloodthristy" "cult members............

Few quotes from this "brave" man(I almost dare to said a hero):

"How many games do you know that take a dedicated fps engine and mess up the fps part so bad it's like going back 15 years and playing ancient fps games? Please tell me so I can laugh at them instead."

"People like me are here to kick CIG up the ass when they go wrong, when they don't seem to be acting as good stewards with the publics money (it's still the publics money until the product is delivered, they do not own it until you own item), and to occasionally laugh at the odd idiot who thinks we are here to 'ruin' everything for everyone else (its a forum, what the hell could I possibly break or alter?) and to laugh at the ones that really don't seem to be playing the same PU as the rest of us, you know those, the "omg this is so impressive!! The door actually opens omg!!!1!!!11 I fell throught the floor omfg!!!1!!!11 I can fly in empty space squueee!!1!!!2 *fap/fart/feint*" like they've never played an open world game before."

"I think 10% is a very high ratio for what is there and how it's delivered, putting what is currently avalible from 2.4 in list form and then stacking it alongside the stretch goals and the other various things planned makes 2.4 look like a very small and singular step up a very long flight of stairs."


you guys can read more of this here:https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/330602/people-bad-mouthing-star-citizen/p1

Really, you're just trying to generate drama. God, it's like a bunch of girls in high school in here.

You walk into a den of fans anywhere and start telling them they're all wrong, and what do you think is going to happen?

It's this dumb crap that's going to lock this thread.

 

[dsmart]

Yeap no coverage, much scepticism: It was only from the BBC one of the biggest news network in the world doing a piece on the game development, nothing much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0Jmywv3QjQ

Compulsive liar at it's finest

Ah yeah, the naming calling didn't take long. Nice.

How does my statement make me a liar? Did I say there was no coverage?

Aside from that, btw, how convenient that neither PC Gamer, nor BBC, nor the French Canard PC mag who were invited to do these fluff pieces in order to downplay The Escapist fiasco - all - ended up saying that they never saw ANY gameplay of SQ42. All they saw were in-game editor scenes.

 

[bitstorm]

Good question, Item System 2.0 could very much tie into SQ42; it really depends upon the implementation. Item System 2.0 really lends to inventory management more than anything else. I would expect SQ42 to have inventory management mechanics, so I would expect it to. Or, if you're just a soldier stuck with whatever guns and ships you're told to use, perhaps not, though that does seem unlikely.

I'm in software development to a degree myself; I write code to audit systems, build databases, and search those databases.

Regarding your question on the state of the game, are you referring to Star Citizen the MMO, or SQ42 the single-player campaign?

About the only thing we've seen in regards to SQ42 was The Morrow Tour demoed live in October 2015. We really have little idea on how complete that game is. CIG continues to cite spoilers as the main reason they won't show more.

HI,

You seem to be following SC/Sq42 development pretty closely.

Can I ask about Sq42 specifically, Max (God rest his soul) painted a picture of it being some sort of Far Cry style game. ie a sort of open world wander around find missions, do missions sort of affair.

It's just I'd be more interested in a single player, cinematic, linear experience in the traditional space game style, and I was a bit surprised when Max started talking about this.

Is this right? What do you think?