Comparing shield strengths with combat ships doesn't really make any sense. Fundamentally, a T6, T7 and T9 are significantly bigger targets and have significantly less maneuverability than fighters and thus take a lot more hits overall than any fighter will. And with the exception of the T9, those other trade ships also suffer from slow overall top speed compared to combat ships, meaning getting interdicted by combat NPCs can easily end with those trade ships being destroyed before they can high wake.
'Attack of the AI' III
- Thread starter Ian Phillips
- Start date
Comparing shield strengths with combat ships doesn't really make any sense. Fundamentally, a T6, T7 and T9 are significantly bigger targets and have significantly less maneuverability than fighters and thus take a lot more hits overall than any fighter will. And with the exception of the T9, those other trade ships also suffer from slow overall top speed compared to combat ships, meaning getting interdicted by combat NPCs can easily end with those trade ships being destroyed before they can high wake.
I think AI is still 2 easy. But that is because of an easily exploitable bug (target a module and engage with turrets, AI wont turn hostile and clean last 10% with fixed/gimbal to get bounty reward). Otherwise its just about right.
There seems to be something wrong here. My main commander is out some 40k+, but I've got second one in bubble. I played it some time before 2.1 hit, so he had Viper and Cobra, but I decided to imitate a fresh start and bought a stock sidewinder, and started to go from there. Ranks Harmless/Dealer/Mostly Aimless. I've played for a few hours, and now I'm with mostly A-rated Hauler, and 600 k in credits. Only thing I did was missions, data delivery, commodity delivery, source X commodity and one black box retrieval. In that few hours, I had exactly one interdiction by some guy who was after my mission-specific cargo, and I easily evaded it. What we (and Frontier) need to work on is the cause of grossly different player experiences.
What things I can suggest to check.
1. Place. I hang out around core imperial systems (Cemiess is my current base of operations). I never fly farther than 30 ly from there. Systems there are mostly high security. If you move there — will there still be a lot of interdictions by advanced ships on simple missions?
2. Rank. If you (or someone else) has a 'twink' account with low ranks, try that and see if interdiction frequency and danger changes.
3. Ship. Buy a hauler (16 cargo space) and take a similar mission.
4. Tactics. I never loiter in supercruise. As soon as I lined up to my target, I set throttle to 100%, switching to 75% when ETA is exactly 6 seconds. That way my time in supercruise is minimal.
We need to do tests. Would be easier if there was a feature to have multiple commanders on one account, but doable even without that.
The combat ships may stay in combat between 30-90 seconds until the fight is over. During which they may be shot at 50% of the time (assuming bad pilot skills).
Trade ships can be in an out of any combat situation in 15-20 seconds. 40s if they get hit with the submit failed bug.
So yes you can compare the shield/hull strengths objectively, numerically even! And no, if you use the builds above you will not be destroyed by "combat ships" before you can high wake. No single ship has that kind of killing power. See the chart below for reference:
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I think it's probably down to simple exaggeration. Or just really bad luck. But it could be systemic. Haven't had any luck trying to reproduce their issues though.
Some very believable and knowledgeable Commanders have offered reliable, and measured accounts of interdiction bugs, along with accounts of bizarre weapon strengths. It does everyone a disservice to attempt to dismiss them. I believe what they say, as much as what you bring to the table.
Earlier, a Dev came on to remind players to post their accounts on the bug forum. If FD takes them seriously, why shouldn't we?
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Very much agreed - learning to separate the genuinely messed up experiences from the pro-nerfers is critical but we still have to listen.
I totally agree the matchmaking/npc generation stuff is currently a bit creaky - I've had the pirates you've evaded teleporting into instances in front of me and the same guy returning after i've killed him after the same big haul he's heard about in my empty cargo hold - it's not quite right yet and we need to fix that and be sympathetic not alienate people with genuine and usually unexpected problems
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Those are are not the accounts I am referring to. I am talking about the people who claim they're killed in seconds (no video proof) since 2.1.02 after all OP weapons were wiped out of the game. And about people above claiming they need to be in combat Python to trade 8T of cargo. Please read my posts before responding with a complete lack of context just to score forum points.
The reason they ask people to post on the bug forum is because those post require evidence. QA can check your logs to see if you're exaggerating
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Those are are not the accounts I am referring to. I am talking about the people who claim they're killed in seconds (no video proof) since 2.1.02 after all OP weapons were wiped out of the game. And about people above claiming they need to be in combat Python to trade 8T of cargo. Please read my posts before responding with a complete lack of context just to score forum points.
The reason they ask people to post on the bug forum is because those post require evidence. QA can check your logs to see if you're exaggerating
I know what was being referred to, and my comments stand. I don't need reminders from anyone on how to handle myself on the forums, Thanks.
Oh I see, you just decided to reply to my post as if I said something completely different? Ok in that case, apology accepted! If you have any issues with trading please see my suggested builds above and fly safe!
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If you don't kill the first easy NPC, you never see the 2nd. Just the first a couple times. Most of the time though, I never see the first, because I am running missions in high sec, and the police do their jobs I guess.
The AI is stupid hard. Unplayable. I can't go 50 LY in the Bubble without getting interdicted in nearly every system. Out of about 2 dozen 1-on-1 battles, I've yet to destroy a single target. Somehow, even significantly slower and less maneuverable ships are able to out-turn and outrun my Cobra MkIII. Most of the time, I can't see even SEE my target, no matter what dogfight techniques I employ. And if the AI weapons have been nerfed... OMG, I'm glad I didn't see what it was like during the beta. Hell, I may as well be flying a ship made out of rice paper and Scotch tape... I've completely given up on any sort of combat, and if an AI shows up, I just spam the boost until I can jump out. Not even sure why I'm trying to play at all, TBH. [mad]
I'm certain if we all did this (clear the save and start from the beginning) we would have a totally different experience with the AI than we are at the moment. My ranks are Novice / Broker / Surveyor and I now get interdicted by AI that are expert, master, or dangerous. Most of them are in Federal Assault Ships or Gunships and are equipped with scary missiles (they sound scary as they blow up in front of you - I think they might be dumbfires) and other powerful weapons. I've managed to run away from them so far but I'm getting tired of the constant interdictions and from them following me around (even between systems). All the systems I trade between have high security and I have found this makes no difference whatsoever. Yes, the system security will come eventually but by then you've either escaped or you're dead (only happened once so far, thank goodness).
The point is, I think the AI themselves are fine as they are. However, I think it would be fairer if I was interdicted by lower ranked AI. Getting interdicted by AI that are 2,3 or 4 levels above my current combat ranking doesn't sound very fair to me. Since the update I've never been interdicted by a Novice or Competent AI.
There is definitely someting wrong with the interdictions.
Today I was doing exactly the same trading as yesterady. Same loop, same two systems, same cargo, same ship. During three hours, I was interdicted only two times. No chain interdictions, no crazy interdictions 4 times per loop etc.
And I did not changed anything. Yesterday I simply parked my ship at station A at my A-B loop and today, I just continued. Absolutely no change in anything, even the time (in real world) was approx. the same as yesterday. But totally different amount of interdictions. And totally different (far better) player experience.
Either there is some bug in the interdiction algorithms or it is simply some stupid Korean random.
Today I was doing exactly the same trading as yesterady. Same loop, same two systems, same cargo, same ship. During three hours, I was interdicted only two times. No chain interdictions, no crazy interdictions 4 times per loop etc.
And I did not changed anything. Yesterday I simply parked my ship at station A at my A-B loop and today, I just continued. Absolutely no change in anything, even the time (in real world) was approx. the same as yesterday. But totally different amount of interdictions. And totally different (far better) player experience.
Either there is some bug in the interdiction algorithms or it is simply some stupid Korean random.
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Since Engineers, I was hardly hitted with my Python, but managed. I changed for my Vulture for the CZ bounty hunting cg, it was a bit better.
But when I came back for the mining cg with my Python, the 2.1 patch caught me after getting out the ring (next playing session). Got interdicted twice in a row, and killed by a deadly gunship. 2,5 mil and 200 mined cargo cargo in the bin.
I changed for a... cobra mk3 to lose less insurance. got killed once, but acted like a wet chicken (poule mouillée !!!!). I prepare my navigation tab to select the next system if I'm interdicted. When you have poor skills, against deadly AI, fleeing is almost the only way.
It seems that there are more interdictions in cg systems. So I stop cg for a while, and will go to see the new barnacles discoverd in California Nebula. I'm on LBN 623 Nebula, all is quiet. Again.
But when I came back for the mining cg with my Python, the 2.1 patch caught me after getting out the ring (next playing session). Got interdicted twice in a row, and killed by a deadly gunship. 2,5 mil and 200 mined cargo cargo in the bin.
I changed for a... cobra mk3 to lose less insurance. got killed once, but acted like a wet chicken (poule mouillée !!!!). I prepare my navigation tab to select the next system if I'm interdicted. When you have poor skills, against deadly AI, fleeing is almost the only way.
It seems that there are more interdictions in cg systems. So I stop cg for a while, and will go to see the new barnacles discoverd in California Nebula. I'm on LBN 623 Nebula, all is quiet. Again.
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Plus I reckon it's worth reiterating - LBN 623 is really very beautiful and should be high on any new player's list of nebulae to visit even if it's not well known.
The Cobra is NOT and never was a "combat" ship. It handles very poorly unless you fly it perfectly. And it is extremely easy to nail in a turning war. And yes, it's also made of paper. I have only met 1 CMDR in the whole game who could fight well with it, and it certainly wasn't me!
If you are boosting away from enemies in your Cobra 3, then you are using it for its best purpose.
If you want an easy combat ship, try a DBS or a Vulture.
I know what the FAS is, have being flying one for 6 months and I understand it's shields are pretty low at my 5A module, the issue I'm seeing is shields while should not be over powered should offer you some protection for the times when you do miss a turn and get caught in the firing line for a sec and to allow you time to react according, which they used to do. Now it's like I don't even have any shields and if I so much as make one mistake and take any fire I instantly loss all shields and modules are instantly malfunctioning before I have time to hit a SCB, boost or even move more power to shields.
Something is wrong, what it is I don't know but 1v1 dogfights of equal ships should be fun and drawn out, we should be swapping Power management, popping SCB's, taking evasive maneuvers etc not being blown out of the sky in 0.5 secs and one shot.
If I was dying after a good fight I would be fine with that, but this is something other.
Headless Sheep
Banned
I almost smashed my rig today. We're supposed to be running around gathering resources so that we can upgrade our ships right. And we're supposed carry all this $#!+ with us everywhere we go right. HINT NEED A STORAGE AREA BESIDES SHIP It is a very tedious task. So I got an asp with a 64t cargo rack so I can collect materials.I'll just cut to the chase and say I logged 5 times today trying to keep my stuff. The God damn ai is to hard. Dial it back. Who made this call anyway. I want to see this person defeat an elite without almost losing his or her ship. I know there are alien threats coming to this game. I know they will be advanced but this game is not fun for me and a lot people anymore. Git gud at making a more rounded game not just making the ai hard.With that said fd has done a great job with latest update. The game is fun right up until hours of grinding goes down the tube. You over did it fd bottom line.Now dial it back so that us less talented folks who paid good money can play this game too. Dat (gold) asp though she's sexy.
You should be reporting this kind of thing as a bug report. Even if is expected behavior it will help FD sort out the situation. By the way, I do believe there is mischief going on. Give the Dev's more data to work with.
Do you have a video to demonstrate what you are describing here?
All of my ships have much smaller shields than the FAS and less agility, and I haven't experienced this "0.5s death in one shot" or "one mistake and my modules are suddenly failing" issue.