'Attack of the AI' III

[Mohrgan]

I almost smashed my rig today. We're supposed to be running around gathering resources so that we can upgrade our ships right. And we're supposed carry all this $#!+ with us everywhere we go right. HINT NEED A STORAGE AREA BESIDES SHIP It is a very tedious task. So I got an asp with a 64t cargo rack so I can collect materials.I'll just cut to the chase and say I logged 5 times today trying to keep my stuff. The God damn ai is to hard. Dial it back. Who made this call anyway. I want to see this person defeat an elite without almost losing his or her ship. I know there are alien threats coming to this game. I know they will be advanced but this game is not fun for me and a lot people anymore. Git gud at making a more rounded game not just making the ai hard.With that said fd has done a great job with latest update. The game is fun right up until hours of grinding goes down the tube. You over did it fd bottom line.Now dial it back so that us less talented folks who paid good money can play this game too. Dat (gold) asp though she's sexy.

This sort of issue is different than abhorrent AI behavior. But I do have sympathy. Have you gotten all of the mods that don't require components stored as cargo? I've heard that the first three tiers of mods don't require those materials. If you think it could help, show us what your build is like, and maybe there's room for changes. Sacrificing a total of 64t seems a bit like overkill to me.

Anyway. I'm sure there is tons of advice around here to help you hand it to the AI. No slight to your build or abilities intended.

 

[Xenthrix]

I havent played in something like 4 months. But I saw there was a patch and had a look at what was added. It looked pretty good. So i fired up the game, climbed into my vulture and went out to the low security resource site where i do my pirate hunting.

I played about a couple of hours. I died 4 times. Lost 3.5 million credits. Dont have alot of credits to loose.

One of my deaths happened due to not paying attention. I saw an eagle. It was wanted. I glanced over to the left panel to see if it was in a wing. It was. I thought it said it was in a wing of 3 ships, but what it actually said was 3 wings. So when i shot this eagle, over 10 red pips appeared on my radar and 4 seconds later I was sucking vacuum.

When did they start grouping wings?

Another time i was in a massive battle involving something like 10 security and 3 wanted or something. I accidentily shot a security ship and my shields and hull evaporated almost instantly. Why would a bounty of 350 cr be a death sentence. Seems a bit excessive. Maybe security needed to fill their kill quota for the week?

Another time the ship i was up against destroyed my weapons. I tried to run but then it destroyed my thrusters. Dead again.

I dont even want to try the new missions. At a reward of 2.5 million credits, its likely way beyond my combat skills.

At the moment the game is a little too frustrating to enjoy. I can afford to loose a million credits every time i leave the station. I've got about 37 million credits in the bank. That wont last long at this rate.

I'll give it another try tomorrow. Maybe try to make the money back by mining. Hopefully wont get slaughtered.

 

[Katkon]

Well, will you look at that. Just as predicted, the longer the poll stays open the more it skews towards "too difficult". The Internet is an amazing thing - so much negativity in one big place. Personally, I think the AI need to be more dangerous - as mentioned umpteen times previously. It is Elite: Dangerous, after all.

 

[Mohrgan]

Well, will you look at that. Just as predicted, the longer the poll stays open the more it skews towards "too difficult". The Internet is an amazing thing - so much negativity in one big place. Personally, I think the AI need to be more dangerous - as mentioned umpteen times previously. It is Elite: Dangerous, after all.

That whole 'it's dangerous' thing has become a meme. It has no meaning. Oh look, you're dangerous.

 

[Katkon]

That whole 'it's dangerous' thing has become a meme. It has no meaning. Oh look, you're dangerous.

I am indeed. And thank you for noticing. Am trying to decide between a medal and a chest to pin it on. Will let you know once I've made my decision.

 

[Headless Sheep]

This sort of issue is different than abhorrent AI behavior. But I do have sympathy. Have you gotten all of the mods that don't require components stored as cargo? I've heard that the first three tiers of mods don't require those materials. If you think it could help, show us what your build is like, and maybe there's room for changes. Sacrificing a total of 64t seems a bit like overkill to me.

Anyway. I'm sure there is tons of advice around here to help you hand it to the AI. No slight to your build or abilities intended.

I'm not trying to be rude but
Approximate Time Played 6W 3D 21H 59M.That's the little panel on the right side of the ship under statistics.
I don't need build advice. I need the game to be more playable or the rewards must be increased significantly.
Sure I get my Fas,Python,Fdl,Ani and not die but my favorite shop is useless now. It pretty much gets melted these days. This is malarkey I'm calling shenanigans. No ill call it strait up manure. I have dropped every game since I started playing Elite. Boy did they get my attention. I've heard all the negative things about this game turned a depth ear to it all. I've stuck Fd through all the naysayers and this is what we loyal folks get. A game that punishes you for simply trying to get ahead. No my friend you keep your advice and shove it up your USB slot

 

[Faded Glory]

I havent played in something like 4 months. But I saw there was a patch and had a look at what was added. It looked pretty good. So i fired up the game, climbed into my vulture and went out to the low security resource site where i do my pirate hunting.

I played about a couple of hours. I died 4 times. Lost 3.5 million credits. Dont have alot of credits to loose.

One of my deaths happened due to not paying attention. I saw an eagle. It was wanted. I glanced over to the left panel to see if it was in a wing. It was. I thought it said it was in a wing of 3 ships, but what it actually said was 3 wings. So when i shot this eagle, over 10 red pips appeared on my radar and 4 seconds later I was sucking vacuum.

When did they start grouping wings?

Another time i was in a massive battle involving something like 10 security and 3 wanted or something. I accidentily shot a security ship and my shields and hull evaporated almost instantly. Why would a bounty of 350 cr be a death sentence. Seems a bit excessive. Maybe security needed to fill their kill quota for the week?

Another time the ship i was up against destroyed my weapons. I tried to run but then it destroyed my thrusters. Dead again.

I dont even want to try the new missions. At a reward of 2.5 million credits, its likely way beyond my combat skills.

At the moment the game is a little too frustrating to enjoy. I can afford to loose a million credits every time i leave the station. I've got about 37 million credits in the bank. That wont last long at this rate.

I'll give it another try tomorrow. Maybe try to make the money back by mining. Hopefully wont get slaughtered.

Just a suggestion...

When you look at missions, you will see that they have a ranking attached. You are right, if you take a mission with 2 million credits reward, then yes you will (probably) meet high ranking NPC opposition, so steer clear. But, if you take low ranked missions, although they won't pay so well, they will generally have much easier NPCs, so perhaps give some of them a go, and start to get used to the new NPCs.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I am indeed. And thank you for noticing. Am trying to decide between a medal and a chest to pin it on. Will let you know once I've made my decision.

Well, if you're Dangerous then you're at the minimum rank required to be admitted to the Elite Pilots Federation. Congratulations.

Careful not to poke your chest when putting the medal on.

 

[Mr T]

That whole 'it's dangerous' thing has become a meme. It has no meaning. Oh look, you're dangerous.

This is probably stirring the pot but what the heck. Which definition of dangerous relates to Elite?

• dangerous
  ˈdeɪn(d)ʒ(ə)rəs
  
  
  adjective
  adjective: dangerous
  
  able or likely to cause harm or injury.
  "a dangerous animal"
  synonyms: menacing, threatening, treacherous; More
  antonyms: harmless
  
  likely to cause problems or to have adverse consequences.
  "it is dangerous to convict on his evidence"
  synonyms: hazardous, perilous, risky, high-risk, fraught with danger, unsafe, uncertain, unpredictable, precarious, insecure, exposed, vulnerable, touch-and-go, chancy, tricky, treacherous; More
  antonyms: safe
  
  (of a drug) addictive or otherwise harmful or illegal.
  "promoting a dangerous drug for profit"
  
  

They say that games are addictive so perhaps the 3rd definition?

 

[Zeta Legion]

Just a suggestion...

When you look at missions, you will see that they have a ranking attached. You are right, if you take a mission with 2 million credits reward, then yes you will (probably) meet high ranking NPC opposition, so steer clear. But, if you take low ranked missions, although they won't pay so well, they will generally have much easier NPCs, so perhaps give some of them a go, and start to get used to the new NPCs.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



Well, if you're Dangerous then you're at the minimum rank required to be admitted to the Elite Pilots Federation. Congratulations.

Careful not to poke your chest when putting the medal on.

I've had Penniless trade missions sic an infinite supply of (mission spawned) Elite Anaconda hitmen on me. Maybe it's because my rank is Elite, or I'm flying a Cutter at the moment. Either way, it's extremely annoying.

 

[kofeyh]

I've had Penniless trade missions sic an infinite supply of (mission spawned) Elite Anaconda hitmen on me. Maybe it's because my rank is Elite, or I'm flying a Cutter at the moment. Either way, it's extremely annoying.

Yes. I flew a cutter a few days ago to knock over a few large delivery missions, and because I am 97% deadly (already elite in trading) it spawned elite anaconda hit men. Which for me was actually beneficial because I wanted to get a feel for how 5 MC (1 huge, 4 medium) and 2 turreted large beams would do (doubly so as the two lower hardpoints are now mounted on the chin near the huge hard point, and not back under the nacelle wings).

The first Anaconda decided at 45% hull it was time to leave, and NOPED the heck out (blighter high-waked, piker); the second decided to fight on valiantly, unfortunately the two anaconda and 3 vipers that waked in pretty much on top of me, meant that that interdictors life was quite violent and short. The "now you have my attention.." statement as his power supply popped was a bit amusing. Poor guy. I guess his family will go hungry tonight.. Third anaconda driver slammed into the star I was scooping from (ouch).

Side note? 5 multicannon spooled up and spewing rounds downrange is loud as hell.

 

[capt_sparks]

I want to see this person defeat an elite without almost losing his or her ship.

I'm not the one who made the call but I'm one of those that supports a harder AI, at least for elite ranked ships. My combat rank is not yet elite, but my sluggish ship (Cutter) can cut elite ranked ships in wings with not much moving around. I'm not even pressing any single thruster boost buttons. I just stand there, cargo bay open, collector limpets collecting loots from destroyed elite wingmates, while at the same time my turret lasers are firing at the remaining elite Anaconda. I'm not clicking frantically at all since the turrets fire on the target continuously. And I lessen the damage with well timed pip management, chaff launches and SCB/heatsink combos.

I'm expecting elite ships to be like "boss monsters" where it takes a wing to kill one.

 

[Mohrgan]

I'm not trying to be rude but
Approximate Time Played 6W 3D 21H 59M.That's the little panel on the right side of the ship under statistics.
I don't need build advice. I need the game to be more playable or the rewards must be increased significantly.
Sure I get my Fas,Python,Fdl,Ani and not die but my favorite shop is useless now. It pretty much gets melted these days. This is malarkey I'm calling shenanigans. No ill call it strait up manure. I have dropped every game since I started playing Elite. Boy did they get my attention. I've heard all the negative things about this game turned a depth ear to it all. I've stuck Fd through all the naysayers and this is what we loyal folks get. A game that punishes you for simply trying to get ahead. No my friend you keep your advice and shove it up your USB slot

Nope, not rude at all. It can feel a bit condescending even asking that stuff. I just don't want to go around dismissing peoples concerns. And, there are plenty of knowledgeable folk rummaging around. No offense intended.

I have just switched to an FdL, for it's shield strength, mainly. The Huge MC was a strong inducement as well. Again, just open discussion, but you might drag yours out for a bit.

 

[Headless Sheep]

I'm not the one who made the call but I'm one of those that supports a harder AI, at least for elite ranked ships. My combat rank is not yet elite, but my sluggish ship (Cutter) can cut elite ranked ships in wings with not much moving around. I'm not even pressing any single thruster boost buttons. I just stand there, cargo bay open, collector limpets collecting loots from destroyed elite wingmates, while at the same time my turret lasers are firing at the remaining elite Anaconda. I'm not clicking frantically at all since the turrets fire on the target continuously. And I lessen the damage with well timed pip management, chaff launches and SCB/heatsink combos.

I'm expecting elite ships to be like "boss monsters" where it takes a wing to kill one.

I'm going dig one out of the old bag the real old bag. Are you ready. Cool story bro.

 

[kofeyh]

I'm going dig one out of the old bag the real old bag. Are you ready. Cool story bro.

Frankly this is no better than the "git gud" garbage being spewed.

 

[relayer]

Yeah Because especially new Players Generally Start out with Tons of Money to Add high Grade Shields and Extra Equipment...

+virtual rep.

This is the kind of discussion I'd welcome; unfortunately, knee-jerk reactions, polarization on either side is not going to convince FD. It's post-huge patch. I can't remember a game (in 30+ years of gaming) that didn't have post-patch bugs crop up. Oh, you steamed a bit, but in the main, people would be adding their experiences to posts and trying to help the developer narrow down, find & fix the bugs. Sadly, that doesn't seem to happen on most of these forums.

 

[capt_sparks]

I'm going dig one out of the old bag the real old bag. Are you ready. Cool story bro.

I'm not even on the "git gud" level yet. Right now every NPC is just meh. I'll just wait for the thargoids to come and hope they're worth a 2-bit challenge.

 

[relayer]

I've detailed my experiences with the new AI and the bugs in other posts. Just want to say this:

There's enough evidence (yes, videos) of problems, like the Gatling gun PAs & the rest of anomalous behavior from the AI. There are some bugs. We as players should be confirming these behaviors & adding to the observation of them to help FD bug-shoot & balance things.

Your experiences may vary; that is one of the hallmarks of intermittent bugs. Some people are reporting getting jumped by the usual range of ships. Other (and more than a handful) are reporting much higher interdiction rates & only by Deadly & above NPCs, even though not carrying any cargo or on any mission or in PowerPlay.

Rather than have everyone jumping down people's throats, we should put the same effort into determining the why-and-where of these bugs as we did in decoding the AIs and finding the Barnacles, or game-enhancing play like the Canonn & Fuel Rats groups. It only benefits us, the players.

I've experienced the above bugs and am trying to think of why they'd show up for some players & not for others (the high-rank NPCs). I'm not screaming & howling for Frontier's blood, my money back or headshotting the new AI. I really don't think it would be a problem if it wasn't for these anomalous bugs.

It's obvious that two issues are being conflated here. Can't we quit the egotistical aristocratic snobbery, gather evidence & try to help FD fix these bugs?

One last thing: in this thread, two people have commented on the "ramming tactic" used by NPCs. I have experienced the opposite, especially around stations in whatever-sec. I have only gotten scanned one time since 2.1.0.1; that is in at least 20 hrs of play. I also haven't been smashed into/rammed by the stupid NPC system cops, which other people are experiencing (and which used to happen all the time). Do I call them liars because their experience doesn't match mine? Do I pronounce pontifically and explain that they must be weak players?

No. I try to figure out what is different in my experience to theirs. I take their word for it, as many players are reporting the same problem. I don't arrogantly dismiss them. I add to the reports to help FD figure out these bugs & squash them.

If you like the game... try helping FD to make it better.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

And no, if you use the builds above you will not be destroyed by "combat ships" before you can high wake. No single ship has that kind of killing power.

Ah, but they could. That was the OP weapon bug; the one that applied firing rates & heat rates of multicannons to PAs. The one that FD found in 3 days back from holiday & squashed. That was unfortunately the first experience many players had with the "new AI" - not the AI at all, but a bug that only applied to NPC ships.

 

[capt_sparks]

I've detailed my experiences with the new AI and the bugs in other posts. Just want to say this:

There's enough evidence (yes, videos) of problems, like the Gatling gun PAs & the rest of anomalous behavior from the AI. There are some bugs. We as players should be confirming these behaviors & adding to the observation of them to help FD bug-shoot & balance things.

Your experiences may vary; that is one of the hallmarks of intermittent bugs. Some people are reporting getting jumped by the usual range of ships. Other (and more than a handful) are reporting much higher interdiction rates & only by Deadly & above NPCs, even though not carrying any cargo or on any mission or in PowerPlay.

Rather than have everyone jumping down people's throats, we should put the same effort into determining the why-and-where of these bugs as we did in decoding the AIs and finding the Barnacles, or game-enhancing play like the Canonn & Fuel Rats groups. It only benefits us, the players.

I've experienced the above bugs and am trying to think of why they'd show up for some players & not for others (the high-rank NPCs). I'm not screaming & howling for Frontier's blood, my money back or headshotting the new AI. I really don't think it would be a problem if it wasn't for these anomalous bugs.

It's obvious that two issues are being conflated here. Can't we quit the egotistical aristocratic snobbery, gather evidence & try to help FD fix these bugs?

One last thing: in this thread, two people have commented on the "ramming tactic" used by NPCs. I have experienced the opposite, especially around stations in whatever-sec. I have only gotten scanned one time since 2.1.0.1; that is in at least 20 hrs of play. I also haven't been smashed into/rammed by the stupid NPC system cops, which other people are experiencing (and which used to happen all the time). Do I call them liars because their experience doesn't match mine? Do I pronounce pontifically and explain that they must be weak players?

No. I try to figure out what is different in my experience to theirs. I take their word for it, as many players are reporting the same problem. I don't arrogantly dismiss them. I add to the reports to help FD figure out these bugs & squash them.

If you like the game... try helping FD to make it better.

I experienced the NPC ramming tactics too. I used to do that on NPCs because it is very effective in downing the enemy shields before they can try heal them.

 

[relayer]

Some very believable and knowledgeable Commanders have offered reliable, and measured accounts of interdiction bugs, along with accounts of bizarre weapon strengths. It does everyone a disservice to attempt to dismiss them. I believe what they say, as much as what you bring to the table.

Earlier, a Dev came on to remind players to post their accounts on the bug forum. If FD takes them seriously, why shouldn't we?

Dang it Mohrgan, quit saying so many sensible things - I've run out of rep for you!

 

[relayer]

That whole 'it's dangerous' thing has become a meme. It has no meaning. Oh look, you're dangerous.

COMPLETE THE LOOK!

"wow, you look like a psycho!"

COMPLETE THE LOOK!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlsPthMsOt4