External View [A definitive discussion]

[tooterfish]

Come on, the arguments against are a little more nuanced than that.

Like, I get chewed out for using a word that may rub people the wrong way... but it's fine to imply anyone who doesn't want a 3rd person view is some kind of irrational crybaby?

These boards are supposed to be better than that.

 

[jabokai]

Come on, the arguments against are a little more nuanced than that.

Fundamentally, no. If it can be made with no advantage whatsoever, and loads of suggestions have been made for that, then the objections are punitive, whatever nuance you wish to wrap them up in.

 

[NeilF]

I know we have covered this before you and I but for those who havent then i will post this again.

I am sure if you look at both the bottom one is clearly the more effective view... Equally I know Neil that the bottom vid is not actually what you want, but I am just posting an example of what I absolutely under any circumstances do not want. As I have said before, I am not necessarily against a nerfed external view with a lot of delays in place to stop hot swapping in battle, but I know others on here want unrestricted views which for me would kill the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8KFueV58UM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxENQWtsTiY

(I cant argue that the "view" from looking around in that bottom vid is fantastic eye candy however)

@NeoRacer the radar is not all seeing, it does not pick up silent running ships

That's a useful pair of video though

As you say, the "eye candy" offered in the external view is of course what most/all of us after the option want it for. To better view a moment in the game.

Would you possibly agree, if you were to take away the HUD elements (radar, sight, targeting of other planes), it would be less effective for combat? ie: Instead of a lump of text on the screen telling you there was something there, along with a radar dot, there would be pretty mush nothing? (Especially in dark space). And then introduce a time penalty to/from it?

But I fully agree if there's any abuses the external view introduces, then it either needs to be nerfed to stop them, or ultimately simply not offered.

I can't yet see that set of circumstances, but then we don't have the game infront of us do we I personally suspect FD realise the problem they're facing so if they haven't already written off the feature, they are simply sitting on it until the game mechanics are more in place, before then assessing it.

 

[deusx_ophc]

Fundamentally, no. If it can be made with no advantage whatsoever, and loads of suggestions have been made for that, then the objections are punitive, whatever nuance you wish to wrap them up in.

lol

 

[tooterfish]

Fundamentally, no. If it can be made with no advantage whatsoever, and loads of suggestions have been made for that, then the objections are punitive, whatever nuance you wish to wrap them up in.

Which of the suggestions address the stealth issue exactly?

No HUD? Can still be abused to spot stealth.

Time delay? Can still be abused to spot stealth.

Non-combat? Can still be abused to spot stealth.

 

[jabokai]

Which of the suggestions address the stealth issue exactly?

No HUD? Can still be abused to spot stealth.

Time delay? Can still be abused to spot stealth.

Non-combat? Can still be abused to spot stealth.

I intend to be a stealth ninja!
- fine, external view is computer generated on your vid screen. It can't generate ships invisible on radar because it doesn't know you're there. Happy now?

/5char

 

[tooterfish]

Actually not bad...

You could've been a bit less of a **** about it though.

 

[NeilF]

I'm not going to address anything else, because frankly I'm sick of arguing in circles about this. And as you can see from NeoRacer's response, the proponents of 3rd person will just blithely ignore the arguments anyway, so it's a gigantic waste of time.

The "circles" and repeated arguments is why I tried to create this thread in the first place. At least it's in one thread rather than half a dozen

We've got to admit though, it's going to tbe interesting if/what FD offer in the end

I'm fearful there will be no external view purely for elitist reasons though. ie: If there's a good valid reason, fine! But if it's purely for "immersion" I'll be frustrated

 

[jabokai]

Actually not bad...

You could've been a bit less of a **** about it though.

Ha ha, I was quoting someone else, I didn't word it that way!

 

[tooterfish]

I was more referring to the lead up, not the post itself.

 

[jabokai]

I was more referring to the lead up, not the post itself.

Ah well, my only excuse is I'm fed up of the debate so sarcasm just accidentally fell out of me.

 

[Muadiib]

I'll go one step further and say any action performed by the pilot should take you out of the probes/drones point of view. So currently you press a button and it brings up the star map, lore wise that is the pilot bringing up the map in his personal hud or the ships hud (I'm not sure which honestly), he then stops everything else that he is doing to focus on that, again because he is either focused on the ships hud or his internal hud is talking up his whole peripheral vision.

The same would be with the probe, you would be operating it with the ships hud or your internal hud and so be entirely focused on that, navigating your ship at the same time should be unspeakable unless there is more than one crew on board your ship (but that's a debate for another time).

I feel the best way then would be to operate the probe with your inbuilt hud (a remote link) and that would negate the ability to do anything else, give it a several second load up time (like hyper drive perhaps) and then let you slowly rotate around your ship and appreciate it and the surrounding areas beauty.

Any other action made by the pilot should either be impossible (the buttons do nothing until you escape from the probe viewpoint) or any action will take you out of it completely, albeit as slowly as it took to get into that view in the first place.

Someone might say "well you can control the ship while perusing the star map", well yes but you are controlling a separate vehicle (the probe) via virtual reality, so it's a little different.

 

[Dante80]

I really want 3pv, but only for neon raven so that he produces some stunning ED videos with atmospheric music that bring in more customers...

 

[scrufferpops]

Even in the original elite there were left, right front and rear views.

Just my penny's worth.

 

[beelbeebub]

1st post, so please be gentle :smilie:

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned (I can't be bothered to read all 90+ pages, sorry), but if the reason for wanting an external pov is for getting the lovely tourist shots of rings, star rises over asteroids etc....

What about a "gun camera" as an optional loadout. You could fit it to one of your hard points to be activated exactly as if it were a weapon.

This would introduce an element of photographers skill in getting the shot ( you would have to pilot into position).

As a side point, you could get rid of the controversial in flight lens flare (or at least make it optional) and reintroduce the flare into the "camera", various apertures, ISO, focal lengths could be available.

You could even end up with an ingame 'press corps' of war photographers going into conflict zones equipped only with cameras on their hard points (and presumably 'TV' written on the side of their cobra in gaffe tape):smilie:

Ok it would be hard to take a 'selfie' but it would totally tie up with the immersion of the game, possibly even lead to some missions (warp in, take pics of the secret imperial ship yard and then get home etc)

 

[Patrick_68000]

An external view only to admire the scenery seems to me essential

 

[Dyson]

Surely a nice HUD/Cockpit-less view would be good for beauty screenshots & video recording?

It's a bit of an **** if you want to take a few snaps on the edge of the galaxy, where the closest player is probably hundreds of light years away, but you can't because "it's unfair in combat".

You could say TrackIR or OC are unfair to those without... or HOTAS, or Eyefinity... where do you draw the line?

The realism argument is flat. It's still a game, and technically you should be worrying about toilet functions and food if you want to get nitty picky.

 

[NeilF]

Surely a nice HUD/Cockpit-less view would be good for beauty screenshots & video recording?

It's a bit of an **** if you want to take a few snaps on the edge of the galaxy, where the closest player is probably hundreds of light years away, but you can't because "it's unfair in combat".

You could say TrackIR or OC are unfair to those without... or HOTAS, or Eyefinity... where do you draw the line?

The realism argument is flat. It's still a game, and technically you should be worrying about toilet functions and food if you want to get nitty picky.

I'm hopeful FD can offer a nice nerfed compromise that is such a disadvantage to use for combat/tactical benefits, it will end up only be used for its true intended purpose, enjoying looking at the game and your experience within it! eg: A slowish bot that needs to be deployed/docked offering no ship interface/hud at all (or a bare minimum).

Finger's crossed a solution is found that keeps us all happy

 

[spookytooth]

I need to get my TrackIR properly sorted because every time I try to use it my head is poking through the canopy! It's been interesting to see the various thrusters fire up whilst manoeuvring but at the same time a bit disconcerting as the view is a mirror image as well. Well I'm making the most of my sunroof now just in case an external view isn't an option. At least I have a wonderful view of the stars

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Surely a nice HUD/Cockpit-less view would be good for beauty screenshots & video recording?

It's a bit of an **** if you want to take a few snaps on the edge of the galaxy, where the closest player is probably hundreds of light years away, but you can't because "it's unfair in combat".

You could say TrackIR or OC are unfair to those without... or HOTAS, or Eyefinity... where do you draw the line?

The realism argument is flat. It's still a game, and technically you should be worrying about toilet functions and food if you want to get nitty picky.

Track ir, rift and hotas are different Imo as all they do is make the game closer to the devs vision not take away from it. It is like saying a steering wheel is cheating in a racing sim