No New "Bubble" Please
- Thread starter WR3ND
- Start date
I find this developement rather interesting and wanted to share some thoughts:
Since part of my profession is "storytelling", in the sense of creating a credible narrative for products, people, events etc., I have been following ED's storytelling quite closely and had been researching lore and past developements in the ED narrative.
In the ED universe people in 3304 basically still work and live following the same patterns we do now (sometimes even more the ones from 1984, which are: sleep - work - eat - repeat. So apart from no major social, sociological or anthropological progress within the "next 1400" years (which is big btw, just look at the progress we have made in the last 1400 years!) and adding that ED economy is a free market one, we can take todays terms to speculate about a second bubble.
Minding that and furtherly taking in account that ED is a simulation of "real" events, I don't see any exculpatory "reason" for humanity to find or expand to a new habitat. Surely ED can just fabricate that, but would you take that serious or wouln't that feel very artificial?
Unless, as many migration examples throughout history show, humanity and humans are only driven to leave their habitat because of
a) economical reasons, like there exists a rare commodity which is needed in the old bubble and which transport to the 1st bubble is good business (1849 California gold rush),
b) ecological reasons, like natural catastrophies which make large parts of the bubble uninhabitalbe or even destroy it (1986 Chernobyl) , or
c) war, like a large scale internal conflict or someone/-thing attacks the bubble and (part of) humanity has to flee somewhere save (2015 Syria).
Otherwise there is no existing behavior pattern, not instictively, consciously or subconsciously, that would make man move there to establish a new or second habitat. And that man would settle there just for fun, seems further than far-fetched to me.
Anyway, we'll see where our FSD (or the storytellers from ED) will take us...
Fly save, wherever to!
Sorry! But you missed a major reason. Colonisation is a major factor for expansion. The exploitation of other civilisations for the benefit of the oppressor is as old as time. It goes like this...
1) You invade, steal the raw materials and all but enslave the population.
2) You supply your own economy with said raw materials to boost your own civilisation providing employment and raising the standard of living.
3) The results of industry fed by the stolen resources are then sold back to the oppressed who are now dependent upon you for the basics of life they themselves can no longer provide for themselves.
To create another bubble creates the perfect breeding ground for such oppressed colonies. Once established, The key would be to keep them dependent.
You get rich, they stay poor.
Pretty ugly, but pretty simple.
Oh yes please! That'd really give me a reason to get out there in the black and explore...
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Sorry, I have to disagree, I find the current (non engineered) jump ranges just fine, makes travelling out to Jaques feel like an achievement, rather than just a run of the mill cargo trip - and thats from someone who has spent the last week heading out to Jaques and is still only half way there, maybe that makes me a masochist in some people's eyes, I call it a challenge!
Besides being an oversimplification and pessimistic view of humanity, though not entirely inaccurate, I'm not sure how this really ties into the scale of the bubble though and the apparent urge to copy it out in some remote location.
What you speak of sounds more like stellar system mechanics as they already are within the bubble that we already have.
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Maybe slightly OT but I'd really, really love to see us evacuate a station. Does anyone remember that from the original Elite? It's one of my stand out memories from 30 years back!
Free beer & strippers you say? In that case, I'm going to stop scanning every star I come across and re-double my efforts to get myself the rest of the way to Jaques ASAP. Now, where did I leave that FSD booster...
100 ly was never a big thing to those of us willing to build for range.
That Hauler in my sig that went from Sol to Sgr A* in 9 hours 35 minutes? No mods. At all. Just stripped down to bare essentials and strapped on the biggest FSD and fuel scoop she can mount. 100 ly to her is 2.8 jumps.
The only difference is that now it's possible to build a ship that can go 30 ly and actually do something (and even then, not all that much. My Courier with a G5 Increase FSD range can carry 18 T of cargo and jump 30 ly, but... 18T ain't all that. It's just enough for me to have fun running missions, really.)
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This is more or less my opinion as well. I chose a 15LY range cargo ship build for this trek over a 17LY range cargo ship build because I didn't care for it's sluggish maneuverability. As it is, it's still somewhat challenging to turn fast enough to fuel scoop without throttling down. [blah]
This isn't really what I'm trying to address with the thread, though if people want easy access to a bubble of the current flavor, they already have that.
Or if you're much less cynical and a little more patient, a thriving free-trade partner is a much bigger money-printing machine than an oppressed colony. More inhabited systems means more resources under human control, more people working to turn those resources into wealth, and more opportunities for trade.
For a clear and shining example, look no further than the United States and Canada, and how much those two countries have done to enrich the whole world (even if our independence was quite unintentional on Britain's part).
What more reason does humanity need to expand into new systems other than because they can? Is it not enough that the systems are there, they are obtainable, and that each new planet colonized holds the potential for wealth beyond imagination? Such motives were sufficient to cross the Atlantic, they were sufficient to expand the US west until it reached the Pacific, and they are what drive us to keep trying to get off Earth and onto Mars.
Do not mistake our lack of expansion today for a lack of desire. We are confined to Earth today by the limits of our technology, but humanity is constantly clawing at these bars, yearning to be free. I for one am quite ready to do some flag-planting, let's get some Manifest Destiny up in here.
Yes, I guess ship ranges wasn't really the original intent of the thread but forums have a tendency to drift off topic...
Back on topic, I've no real desire to see a new bubble that is just the same as but smaller than the current one appear around Jaques. I'm going there for the trip and because it sounded like a good community event to get involved in and give me a reason to play the game more. It would be nice if a small, basic outpost appeared around Jaques though. Nothing elaborate, just basic repairs and restocking and perhaps a chance to sell exploration data, without having to slog all the way back to civilised space.
Perhaps if a scientific outpost opens up there, they could have missions to go find a certain type of star/planet in a certain area and bring back detailed scans of the surroundings. Or to search for a ship lost / disabled and last known to be in the vicinity of such and such system. You could possibly take them fuel and other supplies to get them going, or land and pick up survivors if they've crashed.
Back on topic, I've no real desire to see a new bubble that is just the same as but smaller than the current one appear around Jaques. I'm going there for the trip and because it sounded like a good community event to get involved in and give me a reason to play the game more. It would be nice if a small, basic outpost appeared around Jaques though. Nothing elaborate, just basic repairs and restocking and perhaps a chance to sell exploration data, without having to slog all the way back to civilised space.
Perhaps if a scientific outpost opens up there, they could have missions to go find a certain type of star/planet in a certain area and bring back detailed scans of the surroundings. Or to search for a ship lost / disabled and last known to be in the vicinity of such and such system. You could possibly take them fuel and other supplies to get them going, or land and pick up survivors if they've crashed.
It seems like people aren't taking into account the scale of the current bubble and that there is more unknown and untouched virgin land right next door to it and even inside of it.
Right now the only reason for looking at this other section of the galaxy in particular is that Jaques Station just happens to be there.
I'm primarily an explorer, so "my stuff" mostly isn't in the bubble. Why would I want a new bubble to not do my stuff in?
I'm just voicing a different outlook and preference here, not stating a "new bubble" causes me harm.
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In general, when I think of "the bubble" I think of all of human colonized space. I don't really see the need nor appeal of having version 2.0 somewhere else.
I explore too, the way I see it is that this is a bubble for explorers. One of the new expansions is specifically for explorers. Now you can lighten your ship loadouts and carry less AFMU and fly what ever you want.
Fortunately I've never had much need for the field kits nor even heat sinks for that matter, so I haven't bothered with them. On my first expedition around the core and back, not knowing to throttle down before jumping into neutron star and black hole stellar systems, crashing into a few rings, and accidentally dropping out of supercruise, I still managed to make it back with 91% hull and a slightly cracked canopy.
But anyway, I think it'd be kind of cool to have research and exploration facilities and stations and even maybe a self-sufficient society out toward the core like you mention.
As it is now, I'm not convinced of the need and appeal of having "bubble 2.0" out there though.
Partly what I'm trying to gain from this is finding out what people even mean when referring to a "new bubble," as well as of course somewhat outlining what I mean when I say I'd rather not have just another version of the same bubble with a different view.
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Expanding colonization from a single area will just end in the same way as it always has. War and strife. There are not enough resources in the galactic sense of scale required for all people to be happy.
Creating a bubble 20k plus light years away is like a forward scouting party. It allows expansion to an established section of the galaxy. It also sets up in game narratives for break away factions, new powers and or different focuses on the bubbles. For example the current bubble seems all about trading, money, and petty swabbing between powers.
The new bubble could be set up to support a industrial/Military complex to fight the possible alien attacks. It basically allows for specializations of ideology and new game direction without interfering with everything else in the current bubble.
Creating a bubble 20k plus light years away is like a forward scouting party. It allows expansion to an established section of the galaxy. It also sets up in game narratives for break away factions, new powers and or different focuses on the bubbles. For example the current bubble seems all about trading, money, and petty swabbing between powers.
The new bubble could be set up to support a industrial/Military complex to fight the possible alien attacks. It basically allows for specializations of ideology and new game direction without interfering with everything else in the current bubble.
"No new bubble"
No marmite
No brown sauce
No red sauce
No mayonnaise god damn it!
Now we have to dip our chips in barbecue sauce!
Actually i quite like barbecue sauce. Damn it.
No barbecue sauce!
Make a difference
"YES NEW BUBBLE"
No marmite
No brown sauce
No red sauce
No mayonnaise god damn it!
Now we have to dip our chips in barbecue sauce!
Actually i quite like barbecue sauce. Damn it.
No barbecue sauce!
Make a difference
"YES NEW BUBBLE"
94 ly if I remember correctly. But it was the only human made ship with class 4 military drive and you could only get it through the quest. Later you got a Thargoid ship with range 660. 20 - 25 ly was realy great in Elite 3 for very ranged ships. My Asp had 18 and I thought that's a lot.
I like the idea of bubble 2. The Sol bubble was done purely by Fdev, this one can develop through community. It can have different mechanics, another method of power play, be more exploration oriented. And this bubble can soon hit 10, 100 systems or so and stop right there, just a smaller version of the big bubble.
Should it become bigger, I would very much like the idea of a jump gate, or preferably a discovery of a wormhole, which would reduce the journey to some 5000 ly or something like that.
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Thanks. I realize that I'm being somewhat confrontational in the OP, though that wasn't really my intention. I might not always have the most tact when trying to get my points across.
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It's like half the game we're playing is some imagined meta version of it, though we all have somewhat different imaginations. We can find common ground here and there, of course, and likely many of us are drawn to the game and helping Jaques Station for some of the same reasons.
Bubble 2.0 for the sake of bubble 2.0 is a bit of a roadblock for me, especially without having further clarification of what is meant and intended by having a new "bubble" and the in-game ramifications of it and lore related reasons for it.
Growing from a group of research and exploration related outposts and stations makes some sense to me, but having the initial talk of there being a "new bubble" comes across to me like counting your chickens before your dinosaur eggs have hatched.
Warning, thinly stretched analogy inbound... If I wanted chickens, I can go to any of a number of the farms in human colonized space. I'd like having the opportunity to play with some dinosaurs.
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Or maybe Ripley will show up in the Nostromo and cause havoc.
Agreed. If a fully fledged, high tech bubble just pops up after a few CGs I think that's a wasted opportunity. Let's make it feel remote and different.