The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Rolan]

There's a difference between “scripted” as in “following a script to display different parts of the game” and “everything that happens on-screen is controlled by a script running the game rather than by an actual player” — the presentations had all the hallmarks of the latter.

Not really, unless we saw diferent streams. They follow a script, they had to do this and that.

But of course you can believe what you want, BUT there was no script controlling everything, (you dont let bugs happening if that's the case and you don't see people controlling the characters in that case).

Of course the starfarer, the dude inside, the pirates, etc etc... were not just luck.

Pre-rendered? Some of it most likely is. Pre-recorded? Some of it definitely is, since the game responds to inputs that don't happen (or doesn't respond to inputs that do happen). Is it rehearsed, sure, but everyone seemed to be off their cues, so it was rehearsed pretty poorly.

Which inputs?

Personally i think that build exists. But i also think part of it was recordet and played back as live playtrough

Which isnt exactly bad thing since previous years have been quite crashy. The main issue here is the fact that chris is saying its live when its not.It would have been perfectly fine to say that the footage was recorded before hand.

Sure... but if its live... there is no reason to say to the public that is not.

Is live, some stuff worked well and others not(like the graphical bug on the freelancer). Or like when, in the pirate base, the dude on the ground running out of bullets.

Scripted playtrough goes without saying because you want to showcase certain stuff, but even then minor stuff should change if it was done live.
and if there was live build available why didnt they let the press play with it?

There was a live build prepared for the presentation with the elements we saw, so they show that.


I agree that they should have let the press ... fly around the planet maybe? but without pirates or anything else(because those missions were scripted and prepared to pop up and happen for the presentation) to do and without something to follow there is no much to do. I don't think this build actually has everything they said 3.0 will have. This was just a showcase of the planets, the item system and how something like the mission system will work(which I dont believe it to be already done).


I don't believe that the entire system was there. Some stuff? Sure, everything? No. The planet, the station, the starfarer ok, the other stuff no.
But in the end everyone can believe whatever he wants.

 

[Zetta]

I think there were certainly boundaries on how far a character could veer from the demo's path and obviously there was only the single mission chain in place. It'll be interesting to see what else is available in 3.0.

A while ago they talked about on-going playtesting for a 'single level vertical slice', I'm assuming this demo is what they were referring to.

 

[MrRixter]

I wonder how this "amazing" gameplay will sound when finally be in the hands of the backers and WORKING PROPERLY in a MMO scenario, while Elite DAngerous already will have walking on ships, planets, bases and all this crap, possibly for years already (next seasons) so as Mass Effect Andromeda (possibly 1 and 2, maybe 3 in the point that this SC thing be ready/stable/working) and even Call of Duty bringing many of these promised mechanics of Star Citizen/Squadron 42 in a much better and fun way to the fans of space games.

It sounds nice to show this stuff now to sell more JPEG's, to keep the whales hyped and financing them. But, obviously, due competitors, efficiency and focus of them, Star Citizen is basically screwed. It's going to get old very soon. Sooner than any possibility of these dreams of SC to realize (again, in a proper way, working, finished, and stable).

The end result here is SC backers paying too much, for something that others will deliver for less, faster and better.

To be honest star citizen is on cryengine 3 which wont look outdated for a long time. Have you seen the textures upclose in elite dangerous stations? I really doubt in elite we could ever have space legs without the developers having to redo most of the game assets. In fact, I'll be very surprised if elite makes it past season 3.

 

[Tippis]

Not really, unless we saw diferent streams. They follow a script, they had to do this and that.

Yes, really. Just because they had a script does not mean it the gameplay was not scripted — quite the opposite. You can't really keep up the illusion if you don't play along with the automation, after all.

But of course you can believe what you want, BUT there was no script controlling everything, (you dont let bugs happening if that's the case and you don't see people controlling the characters in that case).

Yes you do. Bugs exist with or without scripting. The script just controls the action; it does not magic away the game simulation — it just keeps the human factor from interfering too much and thereby triggering the avalanche of bugs and crashes that have come to characterise the rest of their coverage. If the code is a buggy mess then the code is a buggy mess (and there's no getting around the fact that CIG's code is a buggy mess); scripting a run-through does nothing to solve that. And again, you certainly make sure to show people “controlling” the characters since you want to maintain the illusion that this is all live gameplay.

Which inputs?

The ones shown by the people “playing”; the ones that did not match up with what was happening on-screen.

Sure... but if its live... there is no reason to say to the public that is not.

But that's not what happened so that's a pretty irrelevant counterfactual bit of reasoning. Rather, they said that it was live, when there are tons of indications that it was in large parts controlled by a pre-recorded on-rails script.

So rather, it's the exact opposite; darkoff's reasoning is entirely on point here: it would have been ok for them to admit that this is all scripted — that it's set up to show off things, which is why we see those decidedly artificial sharp transitions and the very inorganic movement. If it were, there is no reason (other than stupid pride) to say that it's not, but since they offered up a facade of it being all played real-time, they are setting themselves up for some pretty nasty criticism when it turns out that most of it was faked.

 

[kwik]

To be honest star citizen is on cryengine 3 which wont look outdated for a long time. Have you seen the textures upclose in elite dangerous stations? I really doubt in elite we could ever have space legs without the developers having to redo most of the game assets. In fact, I'll be very surprised if elite makes it past season 3.

This comes down to LoD, stations don't need a high one, currently, and when we get space legs they will add another LoD. Just look at the difference in quality between planets we drive around in elite and the planet you walk around in SC, there is no comparison , elites blows SC out of the water.

edit: small note, I saw a post on sc reddit forum a couple of days ago that showed a couple of SC ships turreting each other in space from a distance. It looked god awful in comparision to elites dog fights from a distance.

 

[VidarSnipes]

Have you seen the textures upclose in elite dangerous stations? I really doubt in elite we could ever have space legs without the developers having to redo most of the game assets.

Um, have you heard of a unbelieveably complicated, forgotten technique known as Level of Detail? As in "not loading a big texture/complicated model when a smaller one will be enough, to prevent 10+ minutes loading times"?

 

[Rolan]

Yes, really. Just because they had a script does not mean it the gameplay was not scripted — quite the opposite. You can't really keep up the illusion if you don't play along with the automation, after all.


Yes you do. Bugs exist with or without scripting. The script just controls the action; it does not magic away the game simulation — it just keeps the human factor from interfering too much and thereby triggering the avalanche of bugs and crashes that have come to characterise the rest of their coverage. If the code is a buggy mess then the code is a buggy mess (and there's no getting around the fact that CIG's code is a buggy mess); scripting a run-through does nothing to solve that. And again, you certainly make sure to show people “controlling” the characters since you want to maintain the illusion that this is all live gameplay.

But that's not what happened so that's a pretty irrelevant counterfactual bit of reasoning. Rather, they said that it was live, when there are tons of indications that it was in large parts controlled by a pre-recorded on-rails script.

So rather, it's the exact opposite; darkoff's reasoning is entirely on point here: it would have been ok for them to admit that this is all scripted — that it's set up to show off things, which is why we see those decidedly artificial sharp transitions and the very inorganic movement. If it were, there is no reason (other than stupid pride) to say that it's not, but since they offered up a facade of it being all played real-time, they are setting themselves up for some pretty nasty criticism when it turns out that most of it was faked.

We agree to disagree.

The ones shown by the people “playing”; the ones that did not match up with what was happening on-screen.

If you are talking about the links darkoff put about people playing, i saw people playing... not people acting like they were playing...

But again. Believe what you want xD

 

[Skizomeuh]

Nice demo, though again it's more about "what CIG aim for SC to be" than "what to expect from SC".

Overall, this demo makes for a great sneak peek of a scripted yet openworld story, aka Squadron 42, yet hardly for a living MMO, aka Star Citizen.

Once disappointment is in, it's hard to see those kind of recurrent reveals as positive signs of REAL progression.

 

[Rolan]

GAMESCOM PRESENTATION
TLDR

Spoiler

• Star Citizen Alpha 2.5.0 will have another PTU before it goes live. Could be tonight, but definitely next week.
• Star Citizen Alpha 2.6 will feature Star Marine, the long awaited FPS combat arena that allows players to get into action quickly without worrying about losing their stuff. It will also feature two flyable ships: Aegis Vanguard Hoplite, and the The Drake Herald. Arena Commander is getting some love with 2.6 that will feature optimisations, new additions, and tweaks to the game modes to make them more enjoyable and fluid.
• Star Citizen Alpha 2.7’s name is no more and has been renamed Star Citizen Alpha 3.0 due to the features it holds.
  • The Stanton system comes online with Hurston, Microtech, Crusader, Delamare, Arc Corp, a dozen moons and over 30 space stations to explore.
  • Procedural Planet tech with seamless Space to ground transitions(What was shown in the demo was only v1.0 and v2.0 will be in SC Alpha 3.0
  • Basic professions become a reality with Trading, Cargo Transport, Piracy, Mercenary, Bounty Hunting.
  • New technologies come online such as: Item 2.0, StarNetwork 1.0, Subsumption 1.0, Mission 1.0.
  • Interaction system will replace the USE button and allow you to do different actions with the same object, Grabby hands also will be in.
• They performed a live demo of Star Alpha 3.0 showing space combat, ground combat, space to ground transitions, cargo system, interaction system, mission system, and new sounds and effects.
  • During the demo we saw the Drake Dragonfly and Ursa rover in action and fighting.
  • Dragonfly WILL fit inside the Freelancer, very tight fit though.

NOTES FROM PC GAMES INTERVIEW WITH CHRIS ROBERTS:
TLDR

Spoiler

• Looking to create a detailed, crafted universe with history and lore.
• 3.0 release at end of year
  • Seamlessly go from space station to planet to landing location. Go to Bazaar, get mission, go to wrecked Starfarer, second part of mission transmitted to you, go to moon and recover pirate loot.
  • All seamless, no loading screens.
• 330 people employed by CIG at their 4 studios.
• Want to be able to pick up an object from a planet, move it to a ship, fly to another planet, place object. Working hard to achieve this. (Sounds like Grabby Hands)
• Last 2 years a lot of time spent refactoring CryEngine.
• 3.0 will allow a lot more players with less lag and higher fidelity.
• Item 2.0 will be completely in by 3.0
• Pieces are coming together.
• 3.0 is the huge thing – procedural planets, areas to visit, beginning of Stanton system (all of the celestial bodies in)
• Subsequent patches will flesh out Stanton
• 3.0 will have the basic professions (trading, mercenary, bounty hunter, pirate), more professions added in subsequent patches
• At that point they will open up another system and you’ll be able to jump there.
• Idea is that you could spend hundreds of hours in a single system
• If you want to be a farmer on a planet, you will be able to do that kind of stuff
• FPS improvements on the way
• Looking to be a 10+ year game similar to World of Warcraft and EVE
• Looking to keep the visuals great by continually updating the graphics engine

Source:http://imperialnews.network/2016/08/gamescom-2016-inn-summary/

[h=1]Turtle Beach @ Gamescom | Interview with Chris Roberts about Star Citizen[/h]

Spoiler

[video=youtube;w9T48l7Oq0Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9T48l7Oq0Q[/video]

 

[Tippis]

We agree to disagree.

Fair enough.

If you are talking about the links daroff put about people playing, i saw people playing... not people acting like they were playing...

I saw people acting. I saw this because what they did with their hands often did not match what “they” did in-game. I'm not saying that you saw something else — I'm merely saying that you kept looking at the wrong thing. It's the basis for every magic illusion ever: keep the mark distracted by something so they don't notice what you actually do with your hands… [wink]

 

[Rolan]

I saw people acting. I saw this because what they did with their hands often did not match what “they” did in-game. I'm not saying that you saw something else — I'm merely saying that you kept looking at the wrong thing. It's the basis for every magic illusion ever: keep the mark distracted by something so they don't notice what you actually do with your hands… [wink]

I watched their hands not the game. High Mouse or controller sensitivity?Sure, move very little with big changes on screen. Something weird? Nothing.

Sorry I must be blind.

 

[MarktJones]

So is it the networking that's still holding it back?

 

[CMDR_Orlando]

I think the gameplay on procedural planet was real(since it was way too low quality to be render assets) but i cant shake off this feeling that the rest of the demo was on rails.
lets start:
check how the guy with controller is controlling the character does the hand motions match the stuff happening on screen?
mouse doesn't move but camera is moving granted this could be 16 000 dpi setting on mouse.
camera moves while the guy isnt moving the right stick again it could be really high sensitivity setting
does the stick movement match the movement in screen?
hands off driving of dragonfly, and second screen doesn't see dragonfly coming in to freelancer

"So thats a as you can tell its a few unscripted moments there but thats the beauty of building a systemic world we had quite fun because it was not the way we scripted the end of our action"

then theres the press demo which seems to be exact same thing as the live demo:https://youtu.be/Z-3YBuFI3iI?t=3281

Personally i think that build exists. But i also think part of it was recordet and played back as live playtrough .
Which isnt exactly bad thing since previous years have been quite crashy. The main issue here is the fact that chris is saying its live when its not.It would have been perfectly fine to say that the footage was recorded before hand. Instead of going in effort to fake it poorly (hands free gameplay just doesnt fly with me).
Scripted playtrough goes without saying because you want to showcase certain stuff, but even then minor stuff should change if it was done live.
and if there was live build available why didnt they let the press play with it?
Press played no man sky in its buggy state and didnt say anything bad about it. So why didnt CIG let them play star citizen?

and dragonfly flight readiness is kinda odd. Since its not coming in 2.6 (only confirmed ships were herald and vanguard hoplite dropship variant)

Definitely a nice effort, or should I say "meltdown"? I don't know which one is the comedy forum anymore the narrative is so similar I keep getting mixed up, I think this one might edge it since Gamescom presentation. [big grin]

To keep it short you are dead wrong, it was a live gameplay presentation with no loading screens or scripted pre-rendered gameplay, what we saw in first person view and 3rd person view was all played by the CIG dev's, just like they do in ALL of their presentations, see Gamescom 2014 and Gamescom 2015.

As for the Press not getting to try it? Remember the "Robert Space Industries" Press booth that was mocked for being too simplistic
Well it's not what furniture you get there but what you showcase to the press:

DualShockers: http://www.dualshockers.com/2016/08...-new-demo-showing-planetary-landing-and-more/

"...A recording of the demo can be seen below. Having seen it work with my own eyes on multiple PCs simultaneously operated by the players involved in the demo, it was hard not to be shocked by how far the game has come..."

"...And if you’re wondering if there are any smoke and mirrors involved, there aren’t. The demo was played right in front of me, and I could request to do things that would have failed in a staged presentation. Everything worked like a charm..."
​

GameSpot: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/how-star-citizen-plans-to-do-much-of-what-no-mans-/1100-6442819/
PCGamer: http://www.pcgamer.com/star-citizen-30s-planetary-landing-blows-no-mans-sky-away/
Eurogamer: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-08-20-landing-on-a-planet-in-star-citizen-looks-spectacular

some comparison between sc booth and frontier booth
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqI3mFUXEAA68nW.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByiW9hcIcAEHjZZ.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByYGxeCIAAA8OyM.jpg
and star citizen booth
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqGNuTKWAAEfPjo.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqClvPYWcAA3izo.jpg

Weak attempt:

Spoiler

Being disingenuous just because they did a damn good presentation seems kinda desperate, it's better to accept defeat with honor than trying cheap-shots.

Ah and so much for the "LoL so few Twitch viewers nobody cares about Star Citizen".

Spoiler

[rolleyes]

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Private is 2.5(j) now and they think one more iteration before releasing to the public alpha?

Then 2.6 and 3.0 "before the end of the year".

This will be a massive 4 months for SC. from 2.5 to 3.0 looks like more tangible progress than the last 2 years.

 

[Tippis]

To keep it short you are dead wrong, it was a live gameplay presentation with no loading screens or scripted gameplay, what we saw in first person view and 3rd person view was all played by the CIG dev's, just like they do in ALL of their presentations, see Gamescom 2014 and Gamescom 2015.

…except for the fairly obvious loading screens, the clear transitions between takes, and the aforementioned uncontrolled sequences.
Oh, and are you sure you want to reference those presentations, seeing as how those were full of pre-rendered and scripted sequences and didn't really represent what ended up in the game.

As for the Press not getting to try it? Remember the "Robert Space Industries" Press booth that was mocked for being too simplistic
Well it's not what furniture you get there but what you showcase to the press:

"...A recording of the demo can be seen below. Having seen it work with my own eyes on multiple PCs simultaneously operated by the players involved in the demo, it was hard not to be shocked by how far the game has come..."

"...And if you’re wondering if there are any smoke and mirrors involved, there aren’t. The demo was played right in front of me, and I could request to do things that would have failed in a staged presentation. Everything worked like a charm..."​

In other words, they didn't get to try it.

Also, I wonder if that PC Gamer writer is related.

 

[darkoff]

I watched their hands not the game. High Mouse or controller sensitivity?Sure, move very little with big changes on screen. Something weird? Nothing.

Sorry I must be blind.

the last 2 videos were videos were i couldnt find any logical explanation.

2nd last video the movement seen on screen and the movement of right thumbstick just didnt match at all. And sensitivity would be quite different from earlier schenes were lesser movements of thumbstick generated some drastic movements in camera.
also remember that the screen is transitioning with turret going downward quite fast, yet the stick position stays in quite neutral zone.

last video guy doesn't held controller yet dragonfly goes forward. Then theres camera movements with guys right hand at groin region. The guy is clearly surprised the camera is at him and acts like he is using trackir (currently doesnt work with star citizen and earlier on demo he was controlling the camera with stick) afterwards the guy turns his head to right and the camera doesnt follow that dispelling trackir option completely. (along with the fact that theres no webcam in front of him)

certainly it could be that im wrong, but that was the thing i saw

 

[darkoff]

Definitely a nice effort, or should I say "meltdown"? I don't know which one is the comedy forum anymore the narrative is so similar I keep getting mixed up, I think this one might edge it since Gamescom presentation. [big grin]

To keep it short you are dead wrong, it was a live gameplay presentation with no loading screens or scripted gameplay, what we saw in first person view and 3rd person view was all played by the CIG dev's, just like they do in ALL of their presentations, see Gamescom 2014 and Gamescom 2015.

As for the Press not getting to try it? Remember the "Robert Space Industries" Press booth that was mocked for being too simplistic
Well it's not what furniture you get there but what you showcase to the press:

DualShockers: http://www.dualshockers.com/2016/08...-new-demo-showing-planetary-landing-and-more/

"...A recording of the demo can be seen below. Having seen it work with my own eyes on multiple PCs simultaneously operated by the players involved in the demo, it was hard not to be shocked by how far the game has come..."

"...And if you’re wondering if there are any smoke and mirrors involved, there aren’t. The demo was played right in front of me, and I could request to do things that would have failed in a staged presentation. Everything worked like a charm..."
​

GameSpot: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/how-star-citizen-plans-to-do-much-of-what-no-mans-/1100-6442819/
PCGamer: http://www.pcgamer.com/star-citizen-30s-planetary-landing-blows-no-mans-sky-away/
Eurogamer: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-08-20-landing-on-a-planet-in-star-citizen-looks-spectacular



Weak attempt:

Spoiler

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/ow4uurnds3vy3r/slideshow_wide/GCF_1007.jpg

Being disingenuous just because they did a damn good presentation seems kinda desperate, it's better to accept defeat with honor than trying cheap-shots.

Ah and so much for the "LoL so few Twitch viewers nobody cares about Star Citizen".

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/UoSsv0v.jpg

[rolleyes]

I would call this post a meltdown if anything but enough of that this is different forum with different posting culture.

were you looking over the guys computer then? How can you know if the guy in front of computer was faking it. You only saw exactly same thing as I did.
Like others have said before press only saw it being played. Which is quite problematic with narrative that there was live version available.

Also i think the main point im making with the booth comparison is the fact that frontier had really big and nice booth available.
While star citizen booth is this cramped down booth with 4 available slots for ppl to try out arena commander with all sceens turned away from audience. and 2 32" tv's playing 2.4 trailers

 

[Cmdr Cheese Wedge]

Nice gameplay footage, will the general public get to play it at Gamescom?

 

[Tippis]

Nice gameplay footage, will the general public get to play it at Gamescom?

Seems unlikely since not even the press got to play it, and you can generally make those guys agree not to mention any glaring issues that would pop up.

 

[Backer42]

To be honest star citizen is on cryengine 3 which wont look outdated for a long time. Have you seen the textures upclose in elite dangerous stations? I really doubt in elite we could ever have space legs without the developers having to redo most of the game assets. In fact, I'll be very surprised if elite makes it past season 3.

CE3 already looks outdated, because it's basically a 360/PS3 console engine. Croberts' excessive polygon counts won't change that.

…except for the fairly obvious loading screens, the clear transitions between takes, and the aforementioned uncontrolled sequences.
Oh, and are you sure you want to reference those presentations, seeing as how those were full of pre-rendered and scripted sequences and didn't really represent what ended up in the game.

In other words, they didn't get to try it.

In general these Journos have no clue. They get presented some fancy assets inside the SDK editor tools and confuse that for a real game.