I am willing to support FD but only if they remove the instant transfer and if they add the view in the third person and also a few free goodies (paint job, bobblehead, an Elite cap and one or two posters)
Don't we WANT to support the devs RIGHT NOW?
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Theres my point perfectly and deliciously made, they might lose you...but they still open making money!!!
Darn u now,im hungry...fish-steak plz!!!
Edit: To be clear, my point is that they lose you as the minority hardcore steak fan, but they are paying bills and keeping restaurant going through supply and demand.
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I don't really care for paintjobs anymore, I like to keep my Imp ships white. Probably won't buy kits for them at all either, unless they really change the geometry in a way that I like. If they opened up Season 3 for preorder I would buy it, Engineers (Post Patch) was extremely enjoyable for me for the most part, and worth the price of admission for Horizons in my opinion. I may buy Planet Coaster soon, but bills come first, and Deus Ex just came out...
Also, while I personally think that anyone who is against ship transfers is a complete nut, and any complaints about their immersion being broken are null (and comparisons to the NGE patch of SWG are stupidly overblown) it is very important to remember that their opinions are still valid, and are likely being made known because they don't want to quit the game. Criticism is good for the game, and as long as people discuss and debate mechanics I don't think the game will die.
Also, while I personally think that anyone who is against ship transfers is a complete nut, and any complaints about their immersion being broken are null (and comparisons to the NGE patch of SWG are stupidly overblown) it is very important to remember that their opinions are still valid, and are likely being made known because they don't want to quit the game. Criticism is good for the game, and as long as people discuss and debate mechanics I don't think the game will die.
I'm always sceptical of chasing the "casual gamer". Nintendo did that with the Wii and it became a massive seller with Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc. Loads of consoles were sold but because the casual gamer only wants one or two games, the games sold per console rate (how manufacturers measure success) was low. Those Wiis are now collecting dust, and the Wii U was a flop as the committed gamer was less keen to pick one up and the casuals had moved on to something else.
I think this model holds true for gamers: you have the instant gratification crowd that will move on to whatever is trending, the sim heads that like anything as long as it comes with an 80 page and takes 32 key presses to start an engine, and those that are genre (or specific game) fans. Some of the recent decisions seem to have been taken to satisfy the first group, but arguably they've moved on and will be back for fps (assuming that is season 3).
That's me just postulating, so may be completely without foundation
Theres my point perfectly and deliciously made, they might lose you...but they still open making money!!!
Darn u now,im hungry...fish-steak plz!!!
Of course, and that is a perfectly valid business decision.
But my own point is why would the barbecue lovers care about the game possibly(*) getting more money by stopping making delicious barbecues and start selling fish instead.
(*) and this is not guaranteed either, as fish-eating casual players are not exactly known for being the "stick around" type of players.
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Well, Horizons or the season pass is on sale for Xbox Gold members, and was going to hop on it. I also stated a couple weeks ago here that I wanted some additional ship skins added so I can help support Frontier, but I wanted some actual skins for the ships I have. I've delayed those purchases because of the instant ship transfer topic. Some will says it is a big knee-jerk pout fest..... and maybe it is, but the instant ship deal is a philosophical change, IMO, and one I don't want to support. I don't want Elite Dangerous to turn out to be big version of A Long Night of Solace (Space mission from Halo: Reach), and if that's the way Frontier is going then I'll start looking into something else.
I'm always sceptical of chasing the "casual gamer". Nintendo did that with the Wii and it became a massive seller with Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc. Loads of consoles were sold but because the casual gamer only wants one or two games, the games sold per console rate (how manufacturers measure success) was low. Those Wiis are now collecting dust, and the Wii U was a flop as the committed gamer was less keen to pick one up and the casuals had moved on to something else.
I think this model holds true for gamers: you have the instant gratification crowd that will move on to whatever is trending, the sim heads that like anything as long as it comes with an 80 page and takes 32 key presses to start an engine, and those that are genre (or specific game) fans. Some of the recent decisions seem to have been taken to satisfy the first group, but arguably they've moved on and will be back for fps (assuming that is season 3).
That's me just postulating, so may be completely without foundation
Makes sense .. Have some rep.
In the end if you make a game and run it for several years, over that time you will start off with the hardcore, pickup some casuals, and end with the hardcore. As long you keep some sort of player base thats all that matters in the end. (From FD's point of view).
I'm always sceptical of chasing the "casual gamer". Nintendo did that with the Wii and it became a massive seller with Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc. Loads of consoles were sold but because the casual gamer only wants one or two games, the games sold per console rate (how manufacturers measure success) was low. Those Wiis are now collecting dust, and the Wii U was a flop as the committed gamer was less keen to pick one up and the casuals had moved on to something else.
I think this model holds true for gamers: you have the instant gratification crowd that will move on to whatever is trending, the sim heads that like anything as long as it comes with an 80 page and takes 32 key presses to start an engine, and those that are genre (or specific game) fans. Some of the recent decisions seem to have been taken to satisfy the first group, but arguably they've moved on and will be back for fps (assuming that is season 3).
That's me just postulating, so may be completely without foundation
That is relevant, was not aware of the whole wii thing. But console vs pc tricky comparison. Notice how real simulators have died off too...DCS, FS10, i still njoy them...but there is no money in it. Same like mechwarrior online, i njoy it but it is niche with hardcore gamers and casual gamers having more, or less similar discussions about content and direction. Not that ED is a hardcore simulator either.
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I'm always sceptical of chasing the "casual gamer". Nintendo did that with the Wii and it became a massive seller with Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc. Loads of consoles were sold but because the casual gamer only wants one or two games, the games sold per console rate (how manufacturers measure success) was low. Those Wiis are now collecting dust, and the Wii U was a flop as the committed gamer was less keen to pick one up and the casuals had moved on to something else.
I think this model holds true for gamers: you have the instant gratification crowd that will move on to whatever is trending, the sim heads that like anything as long as it comes with an 80 page and takes 32 key presses to start an engine, and those that are genre (or specific game) fans. Some of the recent decisions seem to have been taken to satisfy the first group, but arguably they've moved on and will be back for fps (assuming that is season 3).
That's me just postulating, so may be completely without foundation
I guess it takes a painful learning experience for som developers/publishers... but, as a rule, catering to the mainstream is rather stupid in this day and age's games industry. Not even a company like Blizzard - more or less the kings of the "broad target demographic" routinely make mistakes, and their products are as mainstream as they come. No, playing in that ballpark shouldn't be anything FD should try. They have a niche - for now - and they should stay in it and dig themself in.
I'm always sceptical of chasing the "casual gamer". Nintendo did that with the Wii and it became a massive seller with Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc. Loads of consoles were sold but because the casual gamer only wants one or two games, the games sold per console rate (how manufacturers measure success) was low. Those Wiis are now collecting dust, and the Wii U was a flop as the committed gamer was less keen to pick one up and the casuals had moved on to something else.
I think this model holds true for gamers: you have the instant gratification crowd that will move on to whatever is trending, the sim heads that like anything as long as it comes with an 80 page and takes 32 key presses to start an engine, and those that are genre (or specific game) fans. Some of the recent decisions seem to have been taken to satisfy the first group, but arguably they've moved on and will be back for fps (assuming that is season 3).
That's me just postulating, so may be completely without foundation
Agreed.
Whatever friendship towards other games in the genre is shown,
it feels being a mask to me.
The space genre never was a large one for the mass market,
now it was pulled into focus, with the implementation of FPS-modules
and a rejuvination of the games being the main sellers for it.
Whatever is told, to me this is an arms race,
where the crowd is the cow to be milked to fund the game,
thus the half-baked convenience "features" (i really need to stop the c-word)
are implemented.
Different games need to shine in different categories to raise support
to fund the development. Dumbing down the game increases the acessability
to get a broader audience into the game.
As i loved space games since i played my first ones
(namely Elite and Wing Commander) the monetary
exploitation of this genre breaks my heart.
Not that other companies that are large now,
would've had another progression to become big and stable.
To give some examples of other genres:
Elderscrolls Series -> less complicated mechanics, less freedom of the player (creating own magic/menue for console ports)
Mass Effect Series -> less complicated and customizable each iteration, less weapons to mod each iteration
I think of the console port of E: D as a statement,
that in the long run this game should be for a large crowd,
desiring an easy to access game, that takes a lot of impacts on immersion.
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+1
Ultimatums are not helpful. Flamewars are not helpful. Friendly advice on what you think would be great gameplay or features is always helpful.
I just don't understand why it seems people get so hurt by this or that.
I think the game is still pretty niche as it stands, I see no evidence of them trying to make the game appeal to the mainstream, even with the 2.2 changes. Maybe if we ever get FPS gameplay, even then it will be done in an Elite way so I doubt it. In fact most of the games FD have made fit into that category .. Niche
Mainstream don't tend to gravitate towards the space genre anyway. Not unless you give them something flashy (SC) or market it rally well (NMS) and we know how both of those have turned out.
Yup pretty much.
It boils down to 2 groups:
1. Group - Want to play this game (teleportists)
2. Group - Wants to live this game (purists)
Frontier had to choose for who, do they actually make the game ?.....given all the circumstances.
I think we already know the answer .... we actually knew it for some time. Yet some of us still refuse to admit it to ourselves and swallow the bitter pill.
...like Trapt sings in These Walls "I won't lose my place in line, I've been here too long and I've spent too much time"
And so we try to convince others that our way is the right way, even though it was already decided. :-/
I am not a fan of mister Einstein but his quote about insanity i always liked (no, i never played far cry 3)
So lets just drop it guys. We said what we wanted. It was already decided.
Whether it was a good choice.... well that remains to be seen.
You see there is the thing..... Lets say that they made the wrong choice.
They wont learn from it by sitting on the fence and trying to please everyone. Sometimes people have to learn the hard way.
And perhaps its a good choice, perhaps it will make ED lot more successful. In that case great. Higher concentration of people who like it that way here = less of them elsewhere.
Lets just enjoy what we like about ED. And if we cant then well ...we can always try something else.
So to sum it up : I don't agree with you FD, but its your call.
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True, which makes the upcoming changes even more puzzling to me...
There is a third group ... People who want both. Thats who FD are trying to cater to, and it makes sense because the majority of players probably fit into that group.
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See my above answer.
Wouldn't bet on it... maybe group 1 has some group 2 tendencies sometimes, but a hard scifie purist? Well, I know I don't...
For me, support is a secondary effect, not a primary objective.
If a company has something that i want or need, i will buy it, so the primary objective are my needs or desires, not those of the producing company.
That, in return, a company benefits from that is merely the secondary outfall of that.
Simplified example, i'll buy a coke if i'm thirsty, i don't buy it to support the Coca Cola company.
Support can only be the primary motivation when it comes to charities or helping out family or personal friends.
FD is neither of those.
Once FD again has something i want, say like perhaps a completed ED:Horizons or a released Planet Coaster, i see no reason why i wouldn't consider buying that.
The ship summoning topic doesn't bother me at all btw, be it instant, delayed, limited or unlimited in range, or any other variation.
If a company has something that i want or need, i will buy it, so the primary objective are my needs or desires, not those of the producing company.
That, in return, a company benefits from that is merely the secondary outfall of that.
Simplified example, i'll buy a coke if i'm thirsty, i don't buy it to support the Coca Cola company.
Support can only be the primary motivation when it comes to charities or helping out family or personal friends.
FD is neither of those.
Once FD again has something i want, say like perhaps a completed ED:Horizons or a released Planet Coaster, i see no reason why i wouldn't consider buying that.
The ship summoning topic doesn't bother me at all btw, be it instant, delayed, limited or unlimited in range, or any other variation.
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Constructive discussions and debates are excellent. It shows we care.
I would not spend this much time on this forum if I did not love ED.
But I am disgusted with all those people who constantly preach doom if things do not go their way, or those that feel the childish need to announce that they will never play the game again if FD does not kiss their prima donna butt.
I loathe that kind of behavior.
I do not agree with everything FD decides, but in the end it is FD's game. They make the decisions.
And FD is closely following the debates and has made numerous tweaks based on our feedback. I think we are very lucky with such a developer.
But... if FD decides not to do what I would like them to do I am not going to insult them, or going to stop loving this game.
I know of no game that is exactly like I want it to be and I do not expect ED to be any different in that respect.
In the end I accept the decisions FD makes without throwing around idle threats and getting temper tantrums.
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Oh trust me ... Those three demographs exist.
You definately have:
Casuals - Don't get a crap
Elite purists - ED needs to be Elite through and through and they wont be told otherwise.
Rest - Somewhere inbetween
I would say maybe 70 - 80% of the ED audience falls into the Rest with 10 - 15% being the other two.
So assuming the above is accurate, why wouldnt FD cater for the majority. (I put myself in that category)
Even if the above numbers are rubbish, the point is that its FD's job to cater for the majority. And they are doing that.
Barbeque lovers wouldve moved on right as they dont care about that fishy place anymore.
I get what you are saying, tricky a bit sometimes as you refer to the game now making fish food, but i get what your saying.
But you are now gone and moved on whether you care or not. However as humans we inherently care and there will still be many things in ED or the fish restaurant you enjoy and will be back right?