The Galaxy - Is its size now considered to be a barrier to gameplay by the Developers?

[Dbrn47]

ED is designed to play your own story in the overall narrative.
I haven't done a single assassination mission since the first one that sent me after a target that was not wanted
There's no real in game reason to play like that. My commander is just a mercenary, not a hitman.

Well, I know I've been told to use my imagination many times for this game. Why not here as well?

 

[mossfoot]

ED is designed to play your own story in the overall narrative.
I haven't done a single assassination mission since the first one that sent me after a target that was not wanted
There's no real in game reason to play like that. My commander is just a mercenary, not a hitman.

Look for an assassination mission that's for a pirate king or similar. They're always wanted (in my experience)

 

[GraXXoR]

The difference here being that your way forces all players to what you want, having instant transfer gives any who want the choice of waiting before getting into their ship.

Really, people are acting as if FD put a gun to their heads that forces them all to use instant transfer whether they like it or not, if you don't like it then go do the shuttle run or wait for a while, geez.

No, that is a naive view point. Any introduction of new technology (into real world or VR) forces the new paradigm... either wholly or in part:

Case in point.

You are PPing for your faction.

Do you

a) Ignore the instant ship printing function and let your adversaries get the one up on you

or

b) accept the new technology against your will in order to help your faction against increased competition.

As I said, naive.

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Fun fact, you can play that scenario with a combination of simple mechanics we have.
- You set a bookmark at your target system and call it travel destination
- You travel to your destination
- You transfer your ship, but don't change ships .. You do not actually see your ship in the shipyard, it's just a database entry
- You wait for however long you deem appropriate (or do other stuff)
- once that time has passed, you change ships.

Added bonus, you buy some commodity and discard it as payment for the storage.

And artificially handicap yourself versus other players?

Only someone who honestly does not oppose other payers or compete in CGs or partake in PP would think like that. Please see my above reply to someone else who thinks they're on to something that nobody else has thought of after 900+ comments.

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A thought. It's been mentioned before about how printing ships for instant transfer will cheapen the (virtual) sense of ownership for many players. Every time you move your ship it's no longer your ship, just a copy.

But some have also suggested the idea of two movement methods - fast transfer (expensive) and slow transfer (cheap).

What if the instant transfer was fast and used the 3D printing tech (and is hopefully expensive enough that it feels like you're paying a premium to have a copy of your ship right away), while the slow transfer uses a fixed rate of time/distance (say, 100LY an hour) regardless of FSD range (for the sake of ease of mechanics) as it's slowly couriered over in normal space?

Agreed about the reprint, IF you lose engineered upgrades... After all, how can they perfectly copy something that even the creater himself can't?

 

[GraXXoR]

Has anyone played Galaxy on Fire 2?

That had manufacturing delays where "crafting" and engineering actually took some time.

You dropped the materials off (or paid a lot to ship them).

Once all the needed stuff was collected, design and production could begin...
When the production was complete, you received a message.

IIRC you could then go and pick it up of have it shipped.

So simple, so elegant.

Why is it that players of a "casual" game were willing to wait but there are so many "NAO NAO NAO" for a so called "hardcore" or at least "specialist" game.

Just out of interest. Does anyone think that there is a correlation between being an XBOX user and wanting instant 3D printing?

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I don't want a delay, it would just be annoying and go against the point of the feature. It's a game, it's not some ultra-realistic simulation.

I have almost every ship in the game, multiples of a few, and had them based in Gende. Then I joined AA and moved to Eravate 300ly away (feels small now that I'm at Jacques). I still have 7 or 8 ships in Gende because I got really sick of flying to Gende in a disposable Hauler, swapping ships, flying back to Eravate in a low jump range combat ship, swapping into a disposable Hauler, flying back to Gende... rinse and repeat A LOT. You don't even get exploration data in the end because you've exhausted the route so much.

In regards to the delay.. why?! It's a convenience feature, quality of life. It should be as convenient as possible, that's its benefit. We don't have delays for repairs, we don't have to sit and wait for refueling, why this?

These dooms day scenarios that people are coming up with are so over the top. You still have to fly everywhere, I'm not going to bother to swap into my Asp to fly 100ly, it's so short who cares? So it takes five or six jumps in an FDL compared to three in an Asp but in my FDL I'm ready for interdictions, I can interdict other commanders running around in their taxis. Seriously, how often do you travel very far in the bubble?

If you do need to travel far to say a community goal or a favoured trade route then jump in your Asp, get there quickly, swap into your preferred ship and start having fun. Yay! Why so bad?

Lastly, people are forewarning the demise of the multi-role ship but what about mission running? What about material gathering? These are perfect for multi-role.

All inst-ship transfer does is allow you to quickly use your ships for the role that you have outfitted them for. That's why next month, my family and I will be voting for instant ship transfer, I encourage you to do the same.

So, why the heck do you need your ships moved to Eravate RITE NAO? What's the big hurry. You said yourself you have one or more copies of most ships. Why would you need them all right away? You can't possibly fly them all simultaneously.

Just strikes me as impatient.


One thing you said, jump in your Asp, fly somewhere, swap to your mega min-maxxed death ray beam ship.

This is just going to create a new, MINMAXMETA.
2 tonne fuel tank 2LY FSD megabuild super maxed.

Another ++ for Combat, as if there weren't enough reasons to be ganked at a CG. Open is going to get even emptier now that the PvP minmax teenies don't have to refit their combat ships before trolling places like Sothis etc.

sigh... only 10 kylies left before I hit the bubble, but I'm tired. Think I'm going to take a break until the beta drops. No point coming back into the bubble just to play Elite: Printing.

 

[BostromNZ]

So, why the heck do you need your ships moved to Eravate RITE NAO? What's the big hurry. You said yourself you have one or more copies of most ships. Why would you need them all right away? You can't possibly fly them all simultaneously.

Just strikes me as impatient.


One thing you said, jump in your Asp, fly somewhere, swap to your mega min-maxxed death ray beam ship.

This is just going to create a new, MINMAXMETA.
2 tonne fuel tank 2LY FSD megabuild super maxed.

Ironically, the reason I wanted them all in one place is so I can use whatever ship I want, when I want, out of my home base without having to worry about where they are and how long it will take to get there. The exact benefit that ship transfer is delivering.

That and probably a mild case of OCD.

It’s a given that everyone, once they can afford to, will have a long jumper for intra-bubble travel but do you really think players are going to change ships to travel if they only need to hop four systems over for an assassination mission? It won’t be worth the hassle, just fly there in your Vette.

 

[mossfoot]

Agreed about the reprint, IF you lose engineered upgrades... After all, how can they perfectly copy something that even the creater himself can't?

I answered the idea elsewhere this way: they can't just scan your ship to get the information needed. It is, in fact, disassembled (3D DEprinted, if you will) in order to get an exact copy down to the atom. The disassembled material is then used to print other ships on the station.

At the target station it can be printed exactly, and then the information purged from the system. Technically you could print as many copies as you want, but legalities, licencing, intellectual property rights, and whatnot prevent that - think of it as DRM plus, enforced by the Pilot's Federation and the Bank of Zaonce (if you're found to be in violation, you never get another ship registered again)

Something like that.

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My concerns are the implications 3D printing should introduce into the sandbox.
These are 3D printers capable of printing 1000's of tonnes of complex components.
Even with your ideas, why not move commodities by printing them?

Think of it this way - the process is heavily subsidized by the same people who deal with our insurance systems (which uses a magic all its own ) and the Pilot's Federation. The process is in fact a money loser and costs much more to use.

Spreading this idea over to fiction - IF you were going to include this in the fictional universe - it would be something that is not commonly done (unlike the game universe). Your insurance allows for such things once a year, perhaps, and can cause insurance rates to go up if abused. In fiction, mundane manual transportation is the regular route, and the printed version done for emergencies or really rich spoiled brats who don't like to wait

 

[Ironwolf]

My problem is that I can not un-think it, or force myself to try.
That is part of who I am.

 

[mossfoot]

My problem is that I can not un-think it, or force myself to try.
That is part of who I am.

But what I'm trying to do is create a framework which people can live with.

See, I'm all for slow-boat transfers and I don't care for insta-printing exact copies of our ship, but if it's something that's going to happen, I feel it's important to find a way to make it work. Science fiction is flexible. I feel I've already helped that aspect of it along. It's feeling more workable the more I peck at the problem.

It's my dream to be able to write an official novel for the ED universe, so I need to be able to rationalize game mechanics (and adjust them as needed) to work in the fiction.

 

[Ironwolf]

But what I'm trying to do is create a framework which people can live with.

See, I'm all for slow-boat transfers and I don't care for insta-printing exact copies of our ship, but if it's something that's going to happen, I feel it's important to find a way to make it work. Science fiction is flexible. I feel I've already helped that aspect of it along. It's feeling more workable the more I peck at the problem.

It's my dream to be able to write an official novel for the ED universe, so I need to be able to rationalize game mechanics (and adjust them as needed) to work in the fiction.

I understand your sentiments, and your willingness to try is good.
Start making notes on the reasons why people find their immersion destroyed, try explaining it away in a logical scientific manner that also does not cause its own problems with immersion.

Good Luck with writing a novel. Wish you the best.

Off to sleep. Night all.

 

[V'larr]

The point was to allow more freedom with ship use, not add additional barriers.

5 minutes to thirty minutes in most cases, an hour or two at worst sometimes, and maybe half a day in the case of the journey to Jaques is not a barrier. It's believability.

edit: For clarification, those times are a rough estimate of how much time it would take a "buckyballer" CMDR to finish journeys across the distances we can expect players will make use of this feature.

 

[Khazid]

To sum up:
Get a cheap hauler with engineered FSD. All d rated.
Get where you want, risk free, minimal rebuy...
Install call your main ships.

Why not just make all ships have the same exact jump range and remove FSD module completely. What's the point of having a good FSD which raises insurance on any other ship than my taxi, or explorer?

 

[ndrwc]

Instant ship transfer. It's the new Brexit!!

"What could possibly go wrong?!"...

...Then don't do it. It's entirely optional.

So is seal clubbing, but that doesn't stop people from doing it...

Maybe we'll get a new in-game faction that will go around blowing up people who use instant transfers

But instant repair of a ship whose hull and components have been turned to swiss cheese doesn't? Way to pick and choose on a whim.

Have you ever seen an F1 crew change a tire? It takes seconds.

Yes but for the fact it won't bring new players.

If I heard about this feature and the RNG in Engineers and I didn't have the game, I would probably laugh hard and not buy the game probably ...

"A 1:1 realistic simulation of the galaxy! With space wizards alcoholic loonies calling themselves engineers! And teleports 3D printing!"

Not being able to wrap your head around it because it's not "good enough" for the game is a personal choice, not a game coherence issue.

Calling the other person an idiot doesn't make a valid argument either.

Or point out the David Braben used to talk about rich gameplay.

The last thing I heard him say was something like "People are not playing the way we expected them to"... maybe "Blaze your own trail" should have a EULA attached? :

Ironic that people are complaining about an unrealistic universe, and then you mention Voyager ...

Voyager went downhill because they applied more and more handwavium as they went on. Enterprise, I'm not entirely sure what happened. The new (2009) movies? Sure, they have the name "Star Trek", but they don't feel Star Trek. The 3rd one (just released) has been pretty widely panned for exactly this reason.

Interestingly, the sheer size of the galaxy was the driving plot point of Voyager to begin with

 

[Wyaston Hypatia]

Michael, I have only one request.
Please don't connect Jaques and the new bubble with this mechanism. Please don't destroy the currently unique 'Frontier' feel of the place.
Make ship and module transport an intra-bubble mechanism not an inter-bubble one.
I went there for an out of bubble experience.
Please don't make it exactly the same as the rest of inhabited space.

 

[Weps]

Why not just make all ships have the same exact jump range and remove FSD module completely. What's the point of having a good FSD which raises insurance on any other ship than my taxi, or explorer?

That's what I would like to see. Some premium jumponium which, when used, brings the jumprange of your ship to the maximum jump range in the game. Call it military grade fuel, or salty tears, or 3Dprinter's mojo, I don't care.

Assuming that the price per ton of this premium jumponium is fixed, factor in a special consumption rate (ton per lightyear) for each ship so that the price per lightyear is equal to the ship transfer's cost per lightyear. You could also take mass into account like with normal fuel, but that just complicates things and makes it harder for players, and also means higher development costs, so ax that.

This way, I am not forced to use the taxi meta if I want to move around competitively, or when playing cooperatively for that matter, which for me personally is an inconvenience. I can just use my normal ship and pay the same price I would pay for instant ship transfer, while getting to my destination in the same number of jumps.

 

[Cosmo]

Yes, we take note of what is discussed. If there was something new to post on the topic then we would, but I think Sandy has already covered it. If anything changes, we'll post accordingly.

Sandro Sammarco mentioned the "instant" ship transfer. 75% of the people who voted in this poll and this poll don't want it to be instant.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Michael, I have only one request.
Please don't connect Jaques and the new bubble with this mechanism. Please don't destroy the currently unique 'Frontier' feel of the place.
Make ship and module transport an intra-bubble mechanism not an inter-bubble one.
I went there for an out of bubble experience.
Please don't make it exactly the same as the rest of inhabited space.

This is why I would support a range limit for ship transfers-based on FSD range-if they went down the instant transfer route!

 

[Kruger]

I'm a bit late to the party, but I'll post my thoughts on the matter.

I'm all for the ship transfer, but I'm not a big fan of the instant part. I understand the need of refuel/repair/rearm/cargo loading and unloading to be instant as the game runs in real-time (though I feel those could have small times attached to them). But ship transfer I feel needs to have a wait time just not make it so exorbitant.

Maybe a couple of minutes or so depending on distance with a small multiplier for longer distances for a sense of traveling or something. Perhaps there's a giant frigate that hauls ships in the background that has such a massive jump range that it can haul to anywhere in just a couple of jumps. Or even a pay extra for instant transfer while choosing not to pay extra adds a transfer time. Even a 3D printer can't print instantaneously.

I don't know... I'm on the fence about the whole thing. It's great that you can transfer ships; I just wish it wasn't instant but at the same time I don't want to wait excessively long for my ship. I feel they could've found a nice balance between not being instantaneous and not waiting too long.

 

[Arubeto]

Kinda funny when you think about it, I could fly my Cutter to any remote port in the galaxy (limited shipyard/outfitting supply) Crash half a billion credits worth of engineered Cutter whilst undocking from this      end of nowhere port, I'll instantly get supplied with a brand new fully modded Cutter.

Nobody seems to question that game mechanic, perhaps the devs should introduce insurance waiting times unless you crash a ship at a port that stock all the necessary modules and ship parts.

I think having a stupid, unbelievable mechanic in the game that one may argue is indeed needed to allow some gameplay that doesn't cripple your whole game once you made a mistake (replacement of luxury ships at remote outposts) does not justify equally or even more implausible and unbelievable mechanics on top of it if they are not absolutely needed in this implausible form.

 

[Jack Schitt]

I think I'm going to just imagine that the NPCs I've hired (but who aren't active and aren't on my ship) pilot my other ships and travel with me wherever I go. If I need to switch into my FDL then what do you know.. it's just been docked and is ready to go.

You know... jump range and scoop issues notwithstanding that's about the best headlore workaround I've seen. Maybe there are massive spacedock-like frames (that we never see!) covered in insanely powerful jump drives that clamp around other ships and whizz them through hyperspace. And we can't buy them because they're only available to the military, and the military permit our invisible NPCs to use them as a reward for mercenary work. You still have the issue of the ships showing up in other stations' Shipyards rather than your current one, and having to pay to use them even though they're already "here", but it's no more quirky than many of the other things we already accept when playing.

(This may sound like I'm taking the mickey but I assure you I'm not; IMO almost any amount of mental gymnastics is better than invoking selective FTL 3D printing controlled by licensing).

Explain it whichever way works for you, don't get hung up on the whole 3D printing thing.

Believe me, I would find it infinitely easier to do so if the other people hung on up on it weren't the Lead Designer and the Executive Producer / Curator Of Elite Fiction.

 

[Arubeto]

Kinda funny when you think about it, I could fly my Cutter to any remote port in the galaxy (limited shipyard/outfitting supply) Crash half a billion credits worth of engineered Cutter whilst undocking from this      end of nowhere port, I'll instantly get supplied with a brand new fully modded Cutter.

Nobody seems to question that game mechanic, perhaps the devs should introduce insurance waiting times unless you crash a ship at a port that stock all the necessary modules and ship parts.

Ok, AnnuverScotinExile puts it way better than me, but it's basically what I tried to say, too:

We have other 'pure magic' elements added to the game recently: the +99 bag of holding that holds all those materials, and bits of dead ships, for example. I have never seen any attempt to give a lore explanation of that, I suspect because it is beyond anyone to come up with one that is even slightly convincing (there's a challenge for you).

Of course, the fact that it is so obviously magic, is one of the reasons many people do not like it. One advantage of a transfer that takes time is that it is easy to come up with several perfectly plausible lumps of lore to explain it. My preference, as FD once said there's was, is to only fall back on magic when you absolutely have to. If you accept that materials, engineering and synchronising is good to have in the game (I know many still hate the Engineers), then 'magic' is a good enough explanation. For me, at least, instant transfer is nowhere near sufficiently beneficial to have to fall back on magic.