i thought the same to be honest... i owned my XB360 from (almost) launch and had the REAL xbox 1 and loved it (always thought it was the spiratual successor to the also underated dreamcast) and still have it now... i would have bought a PS4 or Bone as well had it not been so mediocre specced. there is a good chance i will be buying a ps4 neo when it drops (no need for xbox, all bar halo all its exclusives seem to be coming to pc )
edit, since read the response.. i see what he meant now i guess.
David Braben gave a lovely speech about the importance Science and Realism, so I felt charmed to buy some paint jobs and ship kits. The very next moment Sandro announced teleportation and a wonky overwrite of the broken jump range imbalance. To be 100% honest, I felt a bit cheated, and even lied to. I worked my tail off for two solid weeks to engineer every mod on my FDL to get it to 20 LY. Now that grind is irrelevant. My FDL is built for a galaxy that doesn't exist anymore.
This game requires a lot of time already. How can I trust investing and pouring my free hours and weeks in the game if they keep changing the rules?
As far as supporting FD goes, my enthusiasm for ED waned when PP came out, so my financial support died there. What's the point in supporting a game that doesn't meet my expectations (i.e. immersion/realism)? With instant ship transfer I appreciate that FD want to get as many people engaged in the BGS as quickly as possible. Heading to a trade/combat CG +400LY away will take time (time some people unfortunately don't have), unless you use your max jump AspX, then switch to optimized trader or combat ship (depending on CG). It's a mechanic that won't affect my game (I'm a one commander, one ship kind of guy), but I still disagree with it though. And it's another example that enforces my belief that another penny spent on ED is a penny wasted.
However there are also games out there that do both.
For example Forza Motorsport, you can set the game up to be so easy (and casual) that the game can practically play itself, You can also set the simulation so high that its practically unplayable. (My settings are sim, but not unplayable) Its true that a lot of games these days are not a challenge, however there are a lot of games out there that still as well, if you are willing to set that challenge yourself. You try playing Halo 2 on Legendary and tell me its not a challenge.
I firmly believe we are living in a golden age of videogaming, and coming from someone who has been playing them for nigh on 40 years thats saying something. There is something for everyone these days , on any device you can think of. Its true at the very top AAA gaming is stagnant, boring and in some cases downright deceitful (NMS looking at you). But its never been a better time to be a gamer, even I can see that, rose tinted spectacles included.
I don't think its quite as clear cut as you make it out to be, there are still plenty of games out there that challenge players, ED may not be one of them, but tbh games are there for fun as well.
Not an xbox owner so only ever played the first Halo (we had an xbox at work). POint is, this isn't the game we were sold, and it's getting less that way, not more. If as you suspect there's shed loads of new-age gamers out there just itching to try some convenient, facilitated elite that's not a problem. For me and a bunch of other people it IS a problem however, we're losing interest, we're unlikely to be expansions, skins, etc, and we're looking for other games. I myself have been alerted to the existence of the X3 series (how did I miss that at the time?) and am downloading the free demo of X Rebirth as we speak to see if it's more my style. I'm doubtful, but hey who knows. If ED starts heading back where it should be and if I notice maybe I'll come back. Sure I'm only one player, but I know I'm far from the only one who's had enough of what we're seeing from FDev.
David Braben gave a lovely speech about the importance Science and Realism, so I felt charmed to buy some paint jobs and ship kits. The very next moment Sandro announced teleportation and a wonky overwrite of the broken jump range imbalance. To be 100% honest, I felt a bit cheated, and even lied to. I worked my tail off for two solid weeks to engineer every mod on my FDL to get it to 20 LY. Now that grind is irrelevant. My FDL is built for a galaxy that doesn't exist anymore.
This game requires a lot of time already. How can I trust investing and pouring my free hours and weeks in the game if they keep changing the rules?
This is my feelings exactly. All of us who bought into the Engineers and worked through getting upgrades to combat ship ranges to make them more useful have just been kicked in the nuts. Weeks of RL game time effectively wiped out for the "instant gratification" of people who felt that the game mechaninc was getting in the way of the game.
What is the point now of modding anything but a max range Asp? Once you've got one of these you can get any other ship to wherever, instantly. How long before the mechanic of actually flying cargo somewhere in your Anaconda gets in the way of the game, after all a fully loaded and modded Anaconda still takes 15-20 jumps to get back from Sothis to the target system. Suppose I decide I don't want to "waste all that time" when I could just instantly transfer there, then call up a combat ship to do the pew-pew that this game is gradually becoming all about?
Let's just get rid of trading... Mining, well, that's a massive time sink isn't it. That's getting in the way of my pew-pew time too, let's just get rid of that.
In fact, just having to fly around is a time sink that's eating into my pew-pew time. Just let me pick a system where there's some action and instantly teleport there with the ship of my choice so I can get straight into the fighting...
In fact let's just get rid of all the immersion, science and pseudo reality that we all bought into and turn the whole thing into a giant CQC, that would save wasting valuable shooting time actually having to play a game.
David Braben gave a lovely speech about the importance Science and Realism, so I felt charmed to buy some paint jobs and ship kits. The very next moment Sandro announced teleportation and a wonky overwrite of the broken jump range imbalance. To be 100% honest, I felt a bit cheated, and even lied to. I worked my tail off for two solid weeks to engineer every mod on my FDL to get it to 20 LY. Now that grind is irrelevant. My FDL is built for a galaxy that doesn't exist anymore.
This game requires a lot of time already. How can I trust investing and pouring my free hours and weeks in the game if they keep changing the rules?
And you really need care about "changed rules"? Why your effort should be irrelevant if you like how you can now use your modded FDL? I personally do not see announced changes (related to transfers) as issue, because I know that it will have almost ZERO effect on my usual gameplay. No matter how relocation will be applied, I still will play in open enjoying space around. Jumping from ship to ship and use relocate all the time only bcs it costs less jumps sounds clearly as no go for me.
It's a turbulent moment; some think recent and proposed game changes are miss-thought or damaging- even game changing. Maybe I agree with some aspects at the moment...
On all sides of every single debate going on right now (ship transfers, existing gameplay annoyances & bug fixes, lack of C&P solution and many more things) there are ultimatums, hurt and hyperbole being thrown round like this current change might be the end.
ED might right now be in a great position. Player numbers seem to be up whether that's due to Gamescom announcements, promised mysteries, new content promos, maybe other IP failures etc who knows? That makes it a great time to make things even more appealing to new buyers. Now is the time for all players - old and new - to constructively support development options and not make final demands. Why?
Planet Coaster went into pre-purchase just recently. A really great potential cross platform app that shouldn't need too much post-release attention but from which the income could really (likely) be a part of the plan to keep ED working for many years as hoped - DBOBE's dream.
In the meantime, some FD decisions could rankle and may or may not be reversed. But threatening to remove support for FD when individual decisions don't go our way will be counter productive. Trusting FDEV staff - even when mistakes are evident - and supporting them to improve will help to ensure a longer lifetime for this unique and amazing game. So what I'm saying is...
Yeah, I'm not happy with some recent decisions but much more IMPORTANTLY I want to support FDEV in their commercial endeavours and continue to give feedback so that ED can aspire to a 10-year improvement plan rather than a 4 year exit plan
Are you new here? With each major update we always pick one feature and go ape. Totally ape. Bat -crazy off-the-wall-NUTS. Always. Every time. It doesnt matter what the problem is, we'll always pick the one we like the least and rage with the exact same intensity. We'll threaten to leave. We wont buy the rollercoaster game. We were gonna recommend it to a million friends. We will definitely never play ED again. Etc etc. It'll calm down in the weeks post release, and it will be slowly overtaken by the anger that FD isnt releasing any info. That will build and build, until they do release info. We then pick our pet-peeve and the Holy Circle is complete.
Not an xbox owner so only ever played the first Halo (we had an xbox at work). POint is, this isn't the game we were sold, and it's getting less that way, not more. If as you suspect there's shed loads of new-age gamers out there just itching to try some convenient, facilitated elite that's not a problem. For me and a bunch of other people it IS a problem however, we're losing interest, we're unlikely to be expansions, skins, etc, and we're looking for other games. I myself have been alerted to the existence of the X3 series (how did I miss that at the time?) and am downloading the free demo of X Rebirth as we speak to see if it's more my style. I'm doubtful, but hey who knows. If ED starts heading back where it should be and if I notice maybe I'll come back. Sure I'm only one player, but I know I'm far from the only one who's had enough of what we're seeing from FDev.
just a little segue... X rebirth... if you are not a one for .... lets say, simplification of games... then you do not want X rebirth.... I am not sure which X game is considered the best, but last i looked it was Terran Conflict or possibly Albion Prelude i am not 100% sure why but they never really grabbed me.... i guess it was the learning cliff to get into it... Yes, even steaper than the initial introduction to ED.
truth be told, i find the thought of X R quite appealing and would have bought it by now if not for Elite.
Not an xbox owner so only ever played the first Halo (we had an xbox at work). POint is, this isn't the game we were sold, and it's getting less that way, not more. If as you suspect there's shed loads of new-age gamers out there just itching to try some convenient, facilitated elite that's not a problem. For me and a bunch of other people it IS a problem however, we're losing interest, we're unlikely to be expansions, skins, etc, and we're looking for other games. I myself have been alerted to the existence of the X3 series (how did I miss that at the time?) and am downloading the free demo of X Rebirth as we speak to see if it's more my style. I'm doubtful, but hey who knows. If ED starts heading back where it should be and if I notice maybe I'll come back. Sure I'm only one player, but I know I'm far from the only one who's had enough of what we're seeing from FDev.
With choices comes consequences. In this case the question becomes if looking at loading screens for fourty minutes with zero challenge or risk before you can do what you set out to do is engaging gameplay or not. I am sure you and a bunch of others think it is. I am also sure that many, many people will consider it anti-gamedesign. Challenge and realism should come with good gameplay, and if it doesnt have it you should strip it and add realism/gameplay elsewhere. I am suprised to see the same people (generally speaking here) who are always against making things challenging, harder, more difficult or complex suddenly take the "Look at me being hardcore at looking at loading screens" stance. Its not 'hardcore gaming', its shallow and simple, it just takes a long time. If that is the deep and engaging gameplay the backers envisioned, than I am glad we're deviating from the Holy Path. If you like loading screens, go explore, nothing will change there due to ship transfer. Within the bubble FD must either make it easier to get to the actual gameplay or add gameplay to the journey. Or both. Ship transfer+alien invasion would do that nicely.
Have fun with X:R btw. It was the worst disaster ever upon release, but it has been polished quite well. Flight model is horrible, but you can actually do a fair bit of stuff and the depth of logistics is impressive (try and get a big transport ship and follow it on a trip, from loading to unloading)!
just a little segue... X rebirth... if you are not a one for .... lets say, simplification of games... then you do not want X rebirth.... I am not sure which X game is considered the best, but last i looked it was Terran Conflict or possibly Albion Prelude
i wasnt slagging off XR, i havent even played it (because of ED, no other reason - well that and it being panned on release) but XR IS considered the illegitimate consolified child of the X series so a person who is down on the console generation of gamers would probably do better by getting the game of a series which isnt considered ruined for consoles..... just seems logical to me.
AS i said, despite buying X2 and getting hold of X3 (cough) i never got into them, so for me, XR would probably be about the right balance..... but I am NOT a core X player.
Are you new here? With each major update we always pick one feature and go ape. Totally ape. Bat -crazy off-the-wall-NUTS. Always. Every time. It doesnt matter what the problem is, we'll always pick the one we like the least and rage with the exact same intensity. We'll threaten to leave. We wont buy the rollercoaster game. We were gonna recommend it to a million friends. We will definitely never play ED again. Etc etc. It'll calm down in the weeks post release, and it will be slowly overtaken by the anger that FD isnt releasing any info. That will build and build, until they do release info. We then pick our pet-peeve and the Holy Circle is complete.
Unfortunately this is true (to a large degree). However I've never seen anything rip apart the forums quite like instant transfer... It's got me off my to post stuff, so it must be major
I think by riding rough-shod over the time everyone invested in Engineers (despite the complaints when they first came out), this could just be one blatant disregard for public opinion too many. For those people complaining about the time sinks in ED, surely that's what it's all about. I personally have rage quit 3 times since Premium Beta, all based around being tired of the endless grind, but I keep coming back. Do I still hate the grind, YES. Do I want them to start breaking the mechanics of the game in order to remove that grind, NO!
Rather then simply saying that the mechanics of the game are getting in the way of play, therefore we will remove them, shouldn't they be looking to see what can be done to improve (not remove) those mechanics? The grind becomes a lot less noticeable when it is hidden behind some actual content.
Currently you are either a hunter (bounty, CZ etc) or hunted (smuggler, trader, miner), but whichever you chose, there is little to do other than a string of basically repetetive missions that seem (to our eyes) to server very little purpose. There are some very clever people out there (especially in the NULL community) who have figured out how to use these to manipulate the BGS and plan out the expansion of their player factions, and these people find more fun in that than in the truck driver/pew-pew options. Whilst I'm not suggesting that we turn the game into "Basic Corporation Management 101" (if that's your bag, then go play EVE - I did for years whislt waiting for ED). All I am suggesting is that rather than removing game mechanics FDev would be better served by adding game content.
Or both. The 'space is big' works great for explorers, so lets keep that the same. It works crappily for 'where did I leave my mining vessel' situations, so lets shorten it a bit there. Lets also add some aliens to spice things up, add passenger missions (which rewards manually travelling) and give the explorers new things to explore (volcanism related). You keep the parts that work, remove or change the parts that dont, and then add more. Looks like that is what they are doing.
Where is the promise of keeping the game as based on real science as possible? Remember when they promised that and gave it as a reason for not including "convenient" things like wormholes, tractor beams, and artificial gravity? I used to be a real white knight for FDev, they could do no wrong in my eyes, but they lost that when they introduced magic space friction and an instant stealth button because they were more convenient than coding an AI how to fight someone coasting backwards or having players learn skill based stealth and when called on it they arrogantly claimed that "playability trumps realism" despite the fact that we'd been happily playing it that way for months. No-one's asking for real, newtonian space flight, but something a bit more believable than mario karts in space with instant teleportation, please. Since then we've had powerplay, RNGineers, and god knows what else... and now we have teleportation. Just waiting for the coin slots, powerups, and three lives to appear.
Anyhow, I'm now officially looking for something to replace ED on my hard drive, and when I get low on space guess what's getting uninstalled? Of course there's absolutely no reason at all anyone should worry about that at all... unless as the evidence suggests I'm representative of a large chunk of the player base, and you have shares in FDev that you don't want to decrease (further) in value.
Yes, there are tough times sometimes. These days are tough for Frontiers developers that have been run into harsh critics.
Like the very most majority in this forum I love the game and I do support the work of developers. But I will criticise them
for the results they delivered if this is needed. I give them feedback positive and negative the complete picture.
I am sorry for the guys and strongly believe they weren't aware how much resistance they will get from their decision(s).
The very most of news have been positively responded, there are only some details that are running high on emotions. Maybe
it is good advise to take them seriously and not just go over to the next point without any consequences.
We will see the results when beta hits the ground and next wave of emotions will boil up.
With choices comes consequences. In this case the question becomes if looking at loading screens for fourty minutes with zero challenge or risk before you can do what you set out to do is engaging gameplay or not. I am sure you and a bunch of others think it is. I am also sure that many, many people will consider it anti-gamedesign. Challenge and realism should come with good gameplay, and if it doesnt have it you should strip it and add realism/gameplay elsewhere. I am suprised to see the same people (generally speaking here) who are always against making things challenging, harder, more difficult or complex suddenly take the "Look at me being hardcore at looking at loading screens" stance. Its not 'hardcore gaming', its shallow and simple, it just takes a long time. If that is the deep and engaging gameplay the backers envisioned, than I am glad we're deviating from the Holy Path. If you like loading screens, go explore, nothing will change there due to ship transfer. Within the bubble FD must either make it easier to get to the actual gameplay or add gameplay to the journey. Or both. Ship transfer+alien invasion would do that nicely.
Have fun with X:R btw. It was the worst disaster ever upon release, but it has been polished quite well. Flight model is horrible, but you can actually do a fair bit of stuff and the depth of logistics is impressive (try and get a big transport ship and follow it on a trip, from loading to unloading)!
Uhh.. if you forgot I mentioned that I'd just become aware of it, and was downloading a demo. If it's as tedious as you lead me to believe then it won't be the game for me, but that doesn't mean I'll be running back home to mommy ED cap in hand, I'll keep on looking till I find something I DO enjoy. That's the point that you're avoiding... another game being WORSE doesn't improve the poor design choices being shown here, that just makes TWO games I (and others) won't play.
The raging and complaining will never end on this or any ED forum because the customer base is so divided. The reason for this is because ED doesn't know what kind of game it wants to be and instead of staying on one path it wanders all over the place trying to please too many different player types. I enjoy playing many simulation games such as DCS World, Steel Beasts, etc. These games are sims and they know they are sims. They cater to the sim crowd, hence, no raging on their forums. People make suggestions and discuss things but they don't have the massive divide or anger you see here. If DCS is putting out a new module, I know exactly what to expect and what will be included.
Do I feel like supporting the Devs right now? Not really. They don't seem to be content with their original vision and instead of being happy creating a so-called niche game they are now creating something of a Frankenstein. I would have happily spent money on skins to support them but they won't even provide a proper 3rd person view to enjoy them. Big marketing mistake in my opinion just so you can stick to your ideals about first person view yet make so many crazy decisions in other areas. They have completely turned me off pre-orders in the future because I will no longer fork over money for something that I don't even know the content of. Beta is totally off my list now because the beta periods are nothing more than early access. We will always have pages of bugs being reported the day before release but we always go live anyway just so we can give the illusion of maintaining release dates. There so much I love about ED and yet so much that frustrates me and the frustration is usually over small things which makes it even more frustrating. So until ED figures out what it really is and decides who it's real target customers are, I will have trouble supporting them. Cheers and have a nice weekend!
Offering this would be pretty straightforward from a user/UI point of view...
- Open Galaxy Map
- Select target star system
- Open System Map
- Select a station (or, for Horizons owners, planetary base)
- See new TRANSFER SHIP icon
- Press. Get presented with cost and arrival time. OK/CANCEL
Email arrives when ship is prepped at the destination.
Done.
If I intensely dislike and object to something, I'm going to say so. In no uncertain terms.
And no, I won't couch it with a rambling broken-Star-Citizen-fan style prologue. None of this...
"Hello, special space fan friends. I should start by saying I've been a David Braben fan since forever, and nearly got thrown out of University because I was playing Elite so much. Such a fabulous universe! The lore really pulls me in. And I've put my money where my mouth is; my Premium Beta digital artwork book arrived just last week, and I was totally fine with that taking nearly two years from release, because amazing game design takes time, and we're privileged to be a small part of Frontier's vision in this grand enterprise. So you need to realise that I truly believe, I am not some Doubting Thomas who just wants a game, instead of a living, breathing universe to explore and experience. But there is a tiny little minor concern I have, and I really hope you'll all take this as being purely constructive here, and don't think I'm not 10000% in support of Frontier Developments, but I'm not sure I really like how______________".
That's not "supporting the devs". That's just flat out weird.
Last year when Horizons was announced, Frontier temporarily re-introduced the LTP for those who had missed it before the 2014 launch. I made the conscious decision then of never buying it, not because I didn't expect to get my money's worth but because as soon as I'd spend so much money on a promise, Frontier would no longer have to fulfil that promise and my opinion would have lost whatever weight it had. The whole point of not buying an LTP was precisely to be able to retract my support in case I had to.
Now, I had been mulling over the decision of not buying Season 3 at launch if Frontier's price model stays the same. I paid a lot up front for Season 2, while Frontier delivered very little at launch and then only kept reducing the price as they added more content, so as a customer it wouldn't make sense for me to make the same mistake again and pay more for less. The whole instant ship transfer debacle makes this decision a lot easier. This isn't just a selfish customer's decision. It has become my duty as a supporter of the vision to use the only real means of influencing Frontier to get things back on track.
If you think that's childish I seriously hope you never lambasted the Star Citizen backers who have blindly spent thousands on a pretty promise.
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