The Star Citizen Thread v5

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Soopyyy

S
Stigbob said:
It's entirely possible that he's neither. Combine the following things :

He resents big developers (in his own words)
He resents working to a time limit (refuses to give dates after missing the 2014 one)
He has a nasty habit of saying yes to daft new features (PG birds)
He adds features he see's elsewhere in games on the fly (PG, VR)
He resents working within a budget (bad memories of freelancer)
He is hostile to criticism (escapist magazine)
He does not like being questioned (reaction to where's star marine gone)
He has assets refactored repeatedly (art department resignations)
He has not communicated his requirements properly to his staff (not a good communicator)
He sacks staff members who question the vision (anecdotal from industry interviews)

He's not mad and he's not a con-man. He's just a bad manager with an inability to recognize that for people to deliver what he wants he needs to tell them what it is, and be consistent about what it is. He also wont employ people who would be willing to ask questions to clarify exactly what's required, as they would appear to him to be questioning the vision.

He needs to stay at home and hire a project manager whose willing to tell him what's feasible and whats poorly understood by the staff then demand information on whats required until it's clear. The problem there is CR's a micro-manager and could never stay away, and would probably sack the project manager unless he was a complete yes-man.
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In short, the most insufferable type of businessman on Earth.
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
Stigbob said:
He needs to stay at home and hire a project manager whose willing to tell him what's feasible and whats poorly understood by the staff then demand information on whats required until it's clear. The problem there is CR's a micro-manager and could never stay away, and would probably sack the project manager unless he was a complete yes-man.
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There are many indications about micromanaging from CR till first PU release. Good question is have he learned during these years? People do change and learn from their mistakes. However, if SC turns out playable game with long term prospects, it will be despite his weakness for managing everything, not because of it.

Surprisingly though despite MM thing SC really haven't any of their gameplay loops/elements locked down properly. That should tell volumes about management issues within CIG.
 

Stigbob

Stigbob
Soopyyy said:
In short, the most insufferable type of businessman on Earth.
Click to expand...

Pecisk said:
There are many indications about micromanaging from CR till first PU release. Good question is have he learned during these years? People do change and learn from their mistakes. However, if SC turns out playable game with long term prospects, it will be despite his weakness for managing everything, not because of it.

Surprisingly though despite MM thing SC really haven't any of their gameplay loops/elements locked down properly. That should tell volumes about management issues within CIG.
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To be honest a lot of it's just what you get in family run business's (CiG is basically a Mom and Pop company that sold 120mil in pre-orders). Extreme sense of control and ownership coupled with an incorrect assumption that every employee knows what what was decided at the dinner table the week before and disputes (as in some families) are handled by throwing crockery.

Oddly another thing that would sort a lot of it out is a developer having oversight.

Tippis said:
It's fine and well that silly people use that word like that, but could the rest of us please avoid butchering the term further? [cry]
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I only ever use the term in relation to SC, it makes me laugh sorry.
 

Ozram

Ozram
Stigbob said:
It's entirely possible that he's neither. Combine the following things :

He resents big developers (in his own words)
He resents working to a time limit (refuses to give dates after missing the 2014 one)
He has a nasty habit of saying yes to daft new features (PG birds)
He adds features he see's elsewhere in games on the fly (PG, VR)
He resents working within a budget (bad memories of freelancer)
He is hostile to criticism (escapist magazine)
He does not like being questioned (reaction to where's star marine gone)
He has assets refactored repeatedly (art department resignations)
He has not communicated his requirements properly to his staff (not a good communicator)
He sacks staff members who question the vision (anecdotal from industry interviews)

He's not mad and he's not a con-man. He's just a bad manager with an inability to recognize that for people to deliver what he wants he needs to tell them what it is, and be consistent about what it is. He also wont employ people who would be willing to ask questions to clarify exactly what's required, as they would appear to him to be questioning the vision.

He needs to stay at home and hire a project manager whose willing to tell him what's feasible and whats poorly understood by the staff then demand information on whats required until it's clear. The problem there is CR's a micro-manager and could never stay away, and would probably sack the project manager unless he was a complete yes-man.
Click to expand...

Your description coincides with madman. You just broke down the pathology. Either way, he's not rooted to reality. I still find the other possible as well.
 
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darkoff

D
What is the point over arguing over that video? its merely a funny bug that happened, which i couldnt figure out how it was even possible .

Tippis said:
By the way, why are there visible compression shockwaves in a vacuum?

e: And in obliquely related news, apparently CIG is getting sued. The question is just over what? The door?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrtWI7vWgAATScP.jpg
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Now this is really interesting topic that everyone missed. CIG is getting sued over construction.
Any speculations what it could be?
(did they really forget to pay for the work on installing those doors and then just refuse to pay for the delay fee's)

https://www.lacourt.org/casesummary/ui/index.aspx?#CAS
SC125021 is the case number
 

Stigbob

Stigbob
Ozram said:
Your description coincides with madman. You just broke down the pathology. Either way, he's not rooted to reality. I still find the other possible as well.
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I'd go with being out of touch and unapproachable, a very common senior management trait.
 

Zetta

Zetta
darkoff said:
What is the point over arguing over that video? its merely a funny bug that happened, which i couldnt figure out how it was even possible .


Now this is really interesting topic that everyone missed. CIG is getting sued over construction.
Any speculations what it could be?
(did they really forget to pay for the work on installing those doors and then just refuse to pay for the delay fee's)

https://www.lacourt.org/casesummary/ui/index.aspx?#CAS
SC125021 is the case number
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I'm assuming that's more of a case of contractor / sub-contractor getting in a tizzy.
 

ianw

I
Zetta said:
RSI denies Squadron 42 delay report



Why do they claim this when the website states 2016, the end of Bishop's speech states 2016 and so on.
Is it just a case of word games because no finalised date has been set? ie 12/12/2016.
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Pah - I don't think anything has changed since CR said earlier this year or late last year whenever it was that they were hoping to get SQ42 out this year but it wasn't likely.

It's been theorised endlessly since then with some lunatic estimates at Q2 2016 with others ranging out to 2018 or later.

This Gamescom stuff has been translated by many as roughly;

Feature locked - apparently confirmed by CIG

Most assets or whatever should be done by end 2016

The polish required.

Which clearly takes us into 2017.

It will need lots of polish because it will be utterly ridiculed if it looks anything like the "fidelity" of the morrow tour.

So could easily be mid 2017 - just like the various translations have said.

They just don't want to confirm it yet.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Toumal said:
My enjoyment of Elite Dangerous is not dependent on what Chris Roberts says about it. And the more he talks about Elite Dangerous, the more people who may not have heard about it will hear about it.
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Indeed - this is why on some sales courses they tell you to not even mention a competitors name or even acknowledge them - it's just free advertising and there isn't really anything you can say about them that will help your sale.
 

GaryII

G
ianw said:
Which clearly takes us into 2017.
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My prediction is Xmas 2017 for S42 Chapter 1 to get XMas money and create additional hype for Chapter 2 and MMO part...

That probably will include about 5 missions, possible play time about 4 hours...hard to predict this to be honest here...

About year 2016 - probably at end of year Alfa v3.0 will come out...worst case 2017 Q1

v3.0 trailer created a lot of hype so they do not need to release anything more...

I wonder what happened with Star Marine..it was almost out, but if we can believe this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHU...list=PLQVYcsqZxDxLQLqYr3RAm_hkQuFY0MJip&t=710

it was outsourced by SC, but CR was not happy with result...and it was quietly canceled...

so is it coming "refactored" out in 2017 ?!
 

ianw

I
Pecisk said:
Star Marine has been hinted as part of upcoming soon to be released 2.6, no? At least Gamescon presentation implied that.
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Sort of yes - I guess that may drop about the time of Citizen con - or least be more heavily trailed also with loads of "coming soon" stuff for SQ42.

And there might just be a ship sale - who knows? :D
 

Backer42

B
Zetta said:
RSI denies Squadron 42 delay report
Why do they claim this when the website states 2016, the end of Bishop's speech states 2016 and so on.
Click to expand...
Just look at the old Freelancer trailers, they contain years two.

It's even more fun when you know that whales were trying to convince us in this very forum thread that 42 is going to be released in 2016 for sure, when I told them its very unlikely and impossible about 3/4 of a year ago.

And just to be clear: 2017 is as unlikely, too.
 

Tuub t Tute

T
I strongly suspect CitizenCon will have a big reveal.

CR centre stage with dry ice and strobes, then a few guys in full mocked up SM armour will appear like an Imperial Guard.

St John's Ambulance will need to be in attendance for those in the audience being overcome by the rapture :/
 

BurnyBurns

BurnyBurns
Stigbob said:
It's entirely possible that he's neither. Combine the following things :

He resents big developers (in his own words)
He resents working to a time limit (refuses to give dates after missing the 2014 one)
He has a nasty habit of saying yes to daft new features (PG birds)
He adds features he see's elsewhere in games on the fly (PG, VR)
He resents working within a budget (bad memories of freelancer)
He is hostile to criticism (escapist magazine)
He does not like being questioned (reaction to where's star marine gone)
He has assets refactored repeatedly (art department resignations)
He has not communicated his requirements properly to his staff (not a good communicator)
He sacks staff members who question the vision (anecdotal from industry interviews)

He's not mad and he's not a con-man. He's just a bad manager with an inability to recognize that for people to deliver what he wants he needs to tell them what it is, and be consistent about what it is. He also wont employ people who would be willing to ask questions to clarify exactly what's required, as they would appear to him to be questioning the vision.

He needs to stay at home and hire a project manager whose willing to tell him what's feasible and whats poorly understood by the staff then demand information on whats required until it's clear. The problem there is CR's a micro-manager and could never stay away, and would probably sack the project manager unless he was a complete yes-man.
Click to expand...

Purely speculative as I don't know the man personally, but thise traits align with the impression I'm getting of him.

He ought to be involved in the project purely for the vision and have a strong management above him for all other project related issues, from finances, to milestones, to requirements of the actual product to... Unfortunately SC is a project and CIG a developer that seems to belong to CR, so unless he leaves CIG, I don't see that situation ever happening. And given he had to answer to such a management, he might simply refuse to work under such conditions or would eventually be kicked out of the project.

A firmly narcistic trait would also explain why he seems so out of touch with reality. Maybe he's hiding in motion capture shoots all day, but the video of CR playing the alpha shows pretty clearly that he's not been micro managing the alpha into a polished quality product state. That would also very much explain why he spouts the "view distance" rubbish about their PG tech with disregard to the dozen other projects which are doing the exact same thing. In his world, they can only be the best, the first and the greatest to do something. Everything else wouldn't really align with his self perception.


I only had my nostalgia of playing Wing Commander 3 as a 10/11 year old back in the day together with the the 2012 kickstarter pitch/hype video as sources of information when I backed Star Citizen. What I've observed since then has shown very clearly however, that the only money I ought to have thrown in the general direction of Chris Roberts is the payment for a released game.


Britney said:
What I like the most about this revolutionary open-development project is the omnipresence of hearsay in any debate. Most often somebody has said something in one of the shows that hints something, or somebody spoke to 'a developer' without recording the conversation giving a condensed summary afterwards, sometimes there are just rumors flying around without any traceable source. Any of this does not prevent all the sides in this debate to create arguments on this far fetched base of 'knowledge' that is, in other words, absolutely worthless. For me this is the most absurd element in this story because you would think an open-development project would strive to reduce the amount of uncertainty regarding the development progress.
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I've complained about similar things. Usual answer from cultists: It's all in the TftC or the RtV videos and it's your own fault for not following them. My personal interpretation: "open development" in SC's case is nothing more than a farce for the stout believers, while the information overload they appear to put out regularily serves more to obfuscate the lack of any real progress, while simultaneously keeping the cultists entertained and happy. See, they create about 2-4 hours of youtube hsows every week. They must be progressing greatly and all it takes for them to make our Space game of forever a reality, is you to buy an additional Idris! :D
 
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