The Star Citizen Thread v5

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Zyll Goliat

Zyll Goliat
Guy´s cmon always the first comments like that comming from ppl. that protects their investments and from those who make profit from the SC.....later on shills just picked up that bait and feed the whales....you know how that goes...
 
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Zetta

Zetta
Cynaqq said:
We have no idea what is going on with CIG and SC. What we see is a very small preview of stuff they think is good enough to show. They are the only ones that get to have a "sober view" on the project. We don't get to decide what is a realistic release date
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This is so ridiculous, I can't even...

How does this logic work?

If what we have been given to play is what they deemed 'good enough to show' it means the rest of it is 'not good enough to show' or in other words 'worse'.

So by the logic of this poster, CIG has much more stuff behind doors which never seen the light of day, and all of that is somehow 'better than what they have shown', but at the same time what they have shown is the only stuff 'good enough to show'.

If I had loyal SC customer base for opponents in debate, I'd have a field day :D
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Unfortunately this is par for the course. The absence of evidence is all the evidence you need :eek:

Anyone remember Lando talking about how cool it was flying ships through ravines and the like...? No-one has ever seen evidence of that but it gets treated as a milestone of the project.
 
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Jezzah

Jezzah
Cynaqq said:
This is so ridiculous, I can't even...

How does this logic work?

If what we have been given to play is what they deemed 'good enough to show' it means the rest of it is 'not good enough to show' or in other words 'worse'.

So by the logic of this poster, CIG has much more stuff behind doors which never seen the light of day, and all of that is somehow 'better than what they have shown', but at the same time what they have shown is the only stuff 'good enough to show'.

If I had loyal SC customer base for opponents in debate, I'd have a field day :D
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You wouldn't though :)

It's like arguing black is black and definitely not white with some of them. The faith is that strong. I thought the weight of evidence for having concerns was outstanding enough to warrant a refund as soon as the 18 months ToS clause had passed for me. I can't understand why others don't see it like this. I respect them for it I guess but it's not as if this evidence of concern is hidden...it's all over the net.
 

VidarSnipes

V
Cynaqq said:
If what we have been given to play is what they deemed 'good enough to show' it means the rest of it is 'not good enough to show' or in other words 'worse'.
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Well, that claim is at least understandable. There are a lot of models that weren't seen by anyone outside CIG until the accidental/"accidental" leak by the community manager, and I can believe that some mechanics aren't fit to be released just yet, because they are too unstable, too rudimentary to include in a playable build or something. The belief that the game is almost ready, but isn't shown because reasons is an entirely different matter.
 

BurnyBurns

BurnyBurns
VidarSnipes said:
... and I can believe that some mechanics aren't fit to be released just yet, because they are too unstable, too rudimentary to include in a playable build or something.
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Considering the state of their alpha "2.0", to which your description would apply in my book, I'd say whatever mechanics they haven't shown or released probably exist in prototype state at best.
 

VidarSnipes

V
BurnyBurns said:
Considering the state of their alpha "2.0", to which your description would apply in my book, I'd say whatever mechanics they haven't shown or released probably exist in prototype state at best.
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Well, I should have used "impossible to release". SC 2.0 could be downloaded, installed and launched. Not on all systems, not for more than one-two minutes before a crash, with abysmal performance, without a lot of promised features, but still.
 

Monk

Monk
hiciacit said:
"Super high fidelity." He literally says that, amazing.
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After reading that very long article on CR in gameranx, I've come to a satisfying conclusion of the man.

He is a salesman.

I should have known, heck, I used to make a living selling TVs on features that would never be appreciated. I know what it is like to hype stuff up to make the sale, the commissions from selling gold-plated ultra-fidelitous Monster Cables confirms it.

Chris shines his brightest when he is selling a new idea. I'm guessing, before his legal issues with Kostner, that CR was a pretty good producer. Using his charm and ability to create an exciting narrative for a product (movies in this case) he was able to collect the funding needed to get projects going.

He knows how to get your attention, he excels at putting a dream in your head and then convincing you that dream could be reality. It is a classic sales tactic. For example, to sell a TV to a fella who looks a bit tired (I look for tired eyes and a wedding band) and is coming in after 6 on a weekday, I'd win by creating a picture of a happy family enjoying their new TV. However, you don't just say that...you ask questions and drop hints to allow the customer to arrive there on their own. "Do you kids love video games? This TV has the highest refresh rate and will ensure they get the most from their games. Your wife like cooking shows? Awesome, this unit will provide the truest picture so that there is no confusion on how the final dish should look. Do you like to watch movies together? This blu-ray player will ensure that you get the same experience of the big theater, right in your home with your family." Basically, I'd just created a dream of a happy family who loves this tired, sad man, and all it takes to have this, today, is a store credit card.

This creates a dream in the customer's head that can only be realized through giving me money. Of course, they get it home and realize it is just another TV, their kids are still spoiled brats and their spouse is annoyed at the new debt....but I got my commission.

The sell is so strong with CIG/RSI. The dream is so intoxicating. I should have known. Chris is a magnificent salesman. The problem is that he is a salesman who isn't just in charge of more than sales, he is in charge of the whole project, end to end. There are no parameters for which he is required to work within....he can literally sell anything because the product doesn't exist. He needs someone above him to make him accountable or else the scope creep will never stop as the dream is constantly refreshed to bring in more sales.
 

Jezzah

Jezzah
When Rob Irving and Petersen wingman left, the former stating some time later there was no room in the game for a designer other than CR...well that should have been nipped in the bud and put to bed.
 

Neo-ST

Neo-ST
Monk said:
After reading that very long article on CR in gameranx, I've come to a satisfying conclusion of the man.

He is a salesman.

I should have known, heck, I used to make a living selling TVs on features that would never be appreciated. I know what it is like to hype stuff up to make the sale, the commissions from selling gold-plated ultra-fidelitous Monster Cables confirms it.

Chris shines his brightest when he is selling a new idea. I'm guessing, before his legal issues with Kostner, that CR was a pretty good producer. Using his charm and ability to create an exciting narrative for a product (movies in this case) he was able to collect the funding needed to get projects going.

He knows how to get your attention, he excels at putting a dream in your head and then convincing you that dream could be reality. It is a classic sales tactic. For example, to sell a TV to a fella who looks a bit tired (I look for tired eyes and a wedding band) and is coming in after 6 on a weekday, I'd win by creating a picture of a happy family enjoying their new TV. However, you don't just say that...you ask questions and drop hints to allow the customer to arrive there on their own. "Do you kids love video games? This TV has the highest refresh rate and will ensure they get the most from their games. Your wife like cooking shows? Awesome, this unit will provide the truest picture so that there is no confusion on how the final dish should look. Do you like to watch movies together? This blu-ray player will ensure that you get the same experience of the big theater, right in your home with your family." Basically, I'd just created a dream of a happy family who loves this tired, sad man, and all it takes to have this, today, is a store credit card.

This creates a dream in the customer's head that can only be realized through giving me money. Of course, they get it home and realize it is just another TV, their kids are still spoiled brats and their spouse is annoyed at the new debt....but I got my commission.

The sell is so strong with CIG/RSI. The dream is so intoxicating. I should have known. Chris is a magnificent salesman. The problem is that he is a salesman who isn't just in charge of more than sales, he is in charge of the whole project, end to end. There are no parameters for which he is required to work within....he can literally sell anything because the product doesn't exist. He needs someone above him to make him accountable or else the scope creep will never stop as the dream is constantly refreshed to bring in more sales.
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You're forgetting one even more important person in his business...
 

Soliluna

Soliluna
Monk said:
He knows how to get your attention, he excels at putting a dream in your head and then convincing you that dream could be reality. It is a classic sales tactic. For example, to sell a TV to a fella who looks a bit tired (I look for tired eyes and a wedding band) and is coming in after 6 on a weekday, I'd win by creating a picture of a happy family enjoying their new TV. However, you don't just say that...you ask questions and drop hints to allow the customer to arrive there on their own. "Do you kids love video games? This TV has the highest refresh rate and will ensure they get the most from their games. Your wife like cooking shows? Awesome, this unit will provide the truest picture so that there is no confusion on how the final dish should look. Do you like to watch movies together? This blu-ray player will ensure that you get the same experience of the big theater, right in your home with your family." Basically, I'd just created a dream of a happy family who loves this tired, sad man, and all it takes to have this, today, is a store credit card.
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This is why I couldn't stand working in sales, too much of a conscience. You find the right mark then abuse them with sales tactics. I just felt bad every time I convinced someone to upgrade their suite, or buy a holiday or promotion or whatever. It is so easy to do - like you say, you feed them just enough information to let them arrive at a conclusion or idea themselves and then cement it in by using affirmative language, smiling and agreeing with them.

After a while you even recognise the types that are not "fooled" or easily led into a purchase and can avoid them to make yourself efficient.
 

CMDR_Orlando

Banned
CMDR_Orlando
Monk said:
After reading that very long article on CR in gameranx, I've come to a satisfying conclusion of the man.

He is a salesman.

I should have known, heck, I used to make a living selling TVs on features that would never be appreciated. I know what it is like to hype stuff up to make the sale, the commissions from selling gold-plated ultra-fidelitous Monster Cables confirms it.

Chris shines his brightest when he is selling a new idea. I'm guessing, before his legal issues with Kostner, that CR was a pretty good producer. Using his charm and ability to create an exciting narrative for a product (movies in this case) he was able to collect the funding needed to get projects going.

He knows how to get your attention, he excels at putting a dream in your head and then convincing you that dream could be reality. It is a classic sales tactic. For example, to sell a TV to a fella who looks a bit tired (I look for tired eyes and a wedding band) and is coming in after 6 on a weekday, I'd win by creating a picture of a happy family enjoying their new TV. However, you don't just say that...you ask questions and drop hints to allow the customer to arrive there on their own. "Do you kids love video games? This TV has the highest refresh rate and will ensure they get the most from their games. Your wife like cooking shows? Awesome, this unit will provide the truest picture so that there is no confusion on how the final dish should look. Do you like to watch movies together? This blu-ray player will ensure that you get the same experience of the big theater, right in your home with your family." Basically, I'd just created a dream of a happy family who loves this tired, sad man, and all it takes to have this, today, is a store credit card.

This creates a dream in the customer's head that can only be realized through giving me money. Of course, they get it home and realize it is just another TV, their kids are still spoiled brats and their spouse is annoyed at the new debt....but I got my commission.

The sell is so strong with CIG/RSI. The dream is so intoxicating. I should have known. Chris is a magnificent salesman. The problem is that he is a salesman who isn't just in charge of more than sales, he is in charge of the whole project, end to end. There are no parameters for which he is required to work within....he can literally sell anything because the product doesn't exist. He needs someone above him to make him accountable or else the scope creep will never stop as the dream is constantly refreshed to bring in more sales.
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Well when you have previously sold those dreams into a fun and enjoyable playable state before gaining world-wide gaming legend status you amass a huge and loyal fan-base and that's why Star Citizen is the biggest crowdfunding project ever. No other developer could pull this off. Not Carmak, not Romero, not Braben, not Garriot, not Suzuki, not Kojima or whatever old-school legendary gaming dev could pull this off. No one possess the combined social and technical skill in the same package: A Game designer with the Visionaire capacities to sell the dream, the programming skills/knowledge to understand how he can push tech, the Marketing and Social skills to explain his vision to both techies and mainstream gamers, and most importantily the b4ll's to go all out gungho and make the BDSSE.

That's why I think this is going to make history and become one of the milestones not just in gaming but in the entertainment industry altogether. Because it's a no compromises game aiming for the cream of the cream. No limits Just Excellence.

It's going to be glorious.
 

ianw

I
Monk said:
After reading that very long article on CR in gameranx, I've come to a satisfying conclusion of the man.

He is a salesman.

I should have known, heck, I used to make a living selling TVs on features that would never be appreciated. I know what it is like to hype stuff up to make the sale, the commissions from selling gold-plated ultra-fidelitous Monster Cables confirms it.

Chris shines his brightest when he is selling a new idea. I'm guessing, before his legal issues with Kostner, that CR was a pretty good producer. Using his charm and ability to create an exciting narrative for a product (movies in this case) he was able to collect the funding needed to get projects going.

He knows how to get your attention, he excels at putting a dream in your head and then convincing you that dream could be reality. It is a classic sales tactic. For example, to sell a TV to a fella who looks a bit tired (I look for tired eyes and a wedding band) and is coming in after 6 on a weekday, I'd win by creating a picture of a happy family enjoying their new TV. However, you don't just say that...you ask questions and drop hints to allow the customer to arrive there on their own. "Do you kids love video games? This TV has the highest refresh rate and will ensure they get the most from their games. Your wife like cooking shows? Awesome, this unit will provide the truest picture so that there is no confusion on how the final dish should look. Do you like to watch movies together? This blu-ray player will ensure that you get the same experience of the big theater, right in your home with your family." Basically, I'd just created a dream of a happy family who loves this tired, sad man, and all it takes to have this, today, is a store credit card.

This creates a dream in the customer's head that can only be realized through giving me money. Of course, they get it home and realize it is just another TV, their kids are still spoiled brats and their spouse is annoyed at the new debt....but I got my commission.

The sell is so strong with CIG/RSI. The dream is so intoxicating. I should have known. Chris is a magnificent salesman. The problem is that he is a salesman who isn't just in charge of more than sales, he is in charge of the whole project, end to end. There are no parameters for which he is required to work within....he can literally sell anything because the product doesn't exist. He needs someone above him to make him accountable or else the scope creep will never stop as the dream is constantly refreshed to bring in more sales.
Click to expand...

I've been in and around business sales since 1978 and I recognise many of the signs too - there is a saying most have heard along the lines of don't try and a BSer - whilst it's true that a BSer can spot from a very long way off - for some reason we still - sometimes - fall for it..
 

Zyll Goliat

Zyll Goliat
Monk said:
Pfft...she couldn't sell me a bomb-pop in a desert wasteland. She may have done a lot of the organizing and overall strategy...but there is only one pitchman at CIG/RSI.
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Hehehe...I know that man...I know...but the "queen" certainly pull some important ropes on commander hands.....
 
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