The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Ian Skippy]

I love how SC fans have nothing but demos to refer to when arguing how great it is. Remember the 2014 gamescom, with that awesome city? Remember the 2015 demo of Star Marine? But sure, hold on to your dream that the final version of 2016 will be as the 2016 gamescom demo, with thousands of handcrafted missions. Lets ignore that according to CR it now takes two weeks to make one missions because they managed to streamline it, meaning that a 2017 release will have about two dozen missions tops in the entire game if they bother to have a test phase. Ofcourse, there will be another awesome new demo at citizencon, with loads of great stuff that you can show on youtube to doubters. Just dont show them the game itself though.

After 4-5 years SC has a demo of one fairly short quest. Can you give me the roadmap for the rest?

 

[ianw]

Step dancing Jesus in sandals! the size of the game is NOT equal to quality, you do know that right?
And my ED folder says 15 GB so I don't know.

Oh you silly!

Size only doesn't matter when it's say the size of the galaxy - 400 billion stars.

When it comes to size of the game files that's a clear indicator of quality!

 

[Tippis]

I love how SC fans have nothing but demos to refer to when arguing how great it is. Remember the 2014 gamescom, with that awesome city? Remember the 2015 demo of Star Marine? But sure, hold on to your dream that the final version of 2016 will be as the 2016 gamescom demo, with thousands of handcrafted missions. Lets ignore that according to CR it now takes two weeks to make one missions because they managed to streamline it, meaning that a 2017 release will have about two dozen missions tops in the entire game if they bother to have a test phase. Ofcourse, there will be another awesome new demo at citizencon, with loads of great stuff that you can show on youtube to doubters. Just dont show them the game itself though.

After 4-5 years SC has a demo of one fairly short quest. Can you give me the roadmap for the rest?

I seem to recall that Chris said that roadmaps and plans would restrict the developers too mu… sorry I can't even reference it with a straight face because of how utterly silly it is. [hehe][wacky][noob]

 

[CMDR_Orlando]

Not new. It's been in the game files forever and a day. Someone only just found it, and managed to export it.

The hilarious thing is, this was created as part of one of their proof-of-concept demos. That was before they realized that the "engine" they were working with, couldn't possibly render that, let alone plonk players in there.

Spoiler

http://imgur.com/gallery/2VTeG

Yes that's been in the files for some time (the tower) and I think you are (once again) making wrong analysis based on wishful thinking, as they have hinted to showcase this city at Citizencon, maybe we even get a seamless landing from space to city. One could hope.

There's the making off on youtube from XenthorX and details on the Tower+Atrium from Teller:

[video=youtube;gHVN1F4PkG0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHVN1F4PkG0[/video]

[video=youtube;w-iT_iNHagQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-iT_iNHagQ[/video]

lol

breathing and living city = few static NPCs and a lift to you? this is why it's becoming apparent you're not actually here to discuss things, just to dream and ignore realities. It's like watching stick-figure animation and imagining Avatar. I just can't take your points seriously.

there's a second part of the video, and seriously dude. we're not going to be impressed by anything measured in kilometres to start with.

Well if you compare it with ED stations/city's it seems there's way more life in it. Just stop trying to compare the incomparable, only hurts your cause imo.

 

[Tippis]

Well if you compare it with ED stations/city's it seems there's way more life in it. Just stop trying to compare the incomparable, only hurts your cause imo.

Really? How much foot, vehicle, and ship traffic is coming and going at a constant rate in that city?

 

[lysan]

Yes that's been in the files for some time (the tower) and I think you are (once again) making wrong analysis based on wishful thinking, as they have hinted to showcase this city at Citizencon, maybe we even get a seamless landing from space to city. One could hope.

There's the making off on youtube and details on the tour from Teller:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHVN1F4PkG0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-iT_iNHagQ



Well if you compare it with ED stations/city's it seems there's way more life in it. Just stop trying to compare the incomparable, only hurts your cause imo.

Yes, that is actually true, however we know that the crowd mechanics are in place, we know they are working on it for season 3, and we know that when FD say it will be in, it will be in the game, not a demo, not in 2 weeks, it will be in and working.

 

[Komemiute]

Absolutely. I wrote several blogs explaining this, and what I am planning on doing. In fact, the roadmap has several entries for art passes, some of which we've already finished and are in the current build; while others are still in progress.

The biggest issue for the game is that, given the size and scope, we simply couldn't go overboard with the visuals without severely impacting the performance. Especially since we are working with a potpourri of middleware; most of which (e.g. Triton for water bodies, Silverlining for clouds/atmosphere) are performance hogs and don't play well with each other. Plus we don't have the luxury of PBR.

With the engine now finished, the game content complete, and all features either completed or stubbed in, we've already started on the visual improvements, while taking care not to change the game's colorful visual style. Not having the benefit of a large team, let alone top art talent which costs a LOT of money, we have to made do with what we have.

Spoiler

http://lodgame.com/15-10-27-state-of-play/
http://lodgame.com/15-09-04-state-of-play/
http://lodgame.com/15-07-31-state-of-play/
http://lodgame.com/in-pursuit-of-awesomeness/

The BC/UC games are an acquired taste. You have to put in the time it takes to learn how to play them. It's a simulation; and comes with all the baggage attributed to those types of games. Which is why topics like this come up from time to time.

I kind of like your project and how it goes but you need a much better Artist to draw suits, armors and vehicles. Can I humbly step up?
http://simpledisplaycase.blogspot.it/2009/05/conceptual.html

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cvVOE4Xk-Jo/ShOyc7SU0DI/AAAAAAAAANs/RZveSIxtjo8/s1600-h/AssltTroopr.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cvVOE4Xk-Jo/ShL-VpOBDkI/AAAAAAAAANU/zJNmqWsjLnQ/s1600-h/HelmetsPUB.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cvVOE4Xk-Jo/ShMpVqmo-OI/AAAAAAAAANk/N86JrOn2yDg/s1600-h/Faces.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cvVOE4Xk-Jo/Sgm6yAtheqI/AAAAAAAAAKc/Rmhjt1sfgDQ/s1600-h/Various034.jpg

I can also create great nose-art / mascots
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_cvVOE4Xk-Jo/SgiEoy4cKVI/AAAAAAAAAH8/bxG3244puoA/s1600-h/iano.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Szz2QWi2x...00/MossieFinal+-+All+Weapons+Combat+Ready.jpg
No need for million Poly- just better design.
I think I can deliver.

 

[dsmart]

Where's the rest of the movie? I missed the part when they seamlessly travel across space, landed on a planet, went into a underground breathing and living city, talked to a believable NPC, got a quest and went back to outer space to explore and derelict ship thousands and thousands of kilometres away... [rolleyes]

nobody this side of the Himalayas is going to look at a staged proof-of-concept demo and attribute it to it actually being a game. For that, you have to wait for it to be IMPLEMENTED and players have ACCESS TO IT. Until then, it's not unlike ALL the other similar demos they have created and which contain things which have never and won't see the light of day.

That whole "seamless" thing is immaterial; but you do know that. It adds nothing to the game, as it's just part of the tech challenge which others already solved (right now, it can take anyone 15-20 mins to create a procgen planet in CryEngine) long before now.

Right now in Universal Combat (which has procgen planetary terrain with hand crafted assets on top; the original which was released in 2004 btw) - you can fly from space, to a planet below (after an external camera transition), land, get out and do stuff. With your NPC crew. Mine. Trade. Explore. Combat.

ps: You have seen the COD:IW gameplay videos, right?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Repped, because true. We all have issues with ED, however it has something no other game can offer. A 1:1 scale of the milky way galaxy including all the real known data available collected from various space programs, and they still update the galaxy.

That combined with the BGS, coop play, great sound scape, awesome flight model for ships and SRV makes ED one of a kind.
I haven't tried any of your games, however I will do that one day as I always like to judge the results by myself and not by hearsay.

That's why they continue to attack ED because, due to its expansive scope, FDEV are still having a challenging time getting most players to the "fun". I should know, because I've spent a lifetime fighting that same battle with my BC/UC games.

Regardless, when you take the fact that ED has amazing production quality, coupled with such a massive world, then compare it to SC which has fps...and not much else, the comparison just results in uncontrollable fits of laughter because the only thing that both games have in common is the genre.

To these people, any space combat game that isn't Star Citizen, isn't worthy of discussion because, you know, Jesus said he was coming back at some point.

 

[CMDR_Orlando]

OK you're just trolling now. Because seriously nobody this side of the Himalayas is going to look at a staged proof-of-concept demo and attribute it to it actually being a game. For that, you have to wait for it to be IMPLEMENTED and players have ACCESS TO IT. Until then, it's not unlike ALL the other similar demos they have created and which contain things which have never and won't see the light of day.

That whole "seamless" thing is immaterial; but you do know that. It adds nothing to the game, as it's just part of the tech challenge which others already solved (right now, it can take anyone 15-20 mins to create a procgen planet in CryEngine) long before now.

Right now in Universal Combat (which has procgen planetary terrain with hand crafted assets on top; the original which was released in 2004 btw) - you can fly from space, to a planet below (after an external camera transition), land, get out and do stuff. With your NPC crew. Mine. Trade. Explore. Combat.

ps: You have seen the COD:IW gameplay videos, right?

You said the same thing about their gamescom presentation last year, how the Crusader Universe was never going to be playable by the players, again, wrong.
The whole "seamless" thing is not immaterial, or else Destiny would be considered a groundbreaking game hehehe. It adds everything to the game, you never get out of it being the most important one, the fact that you can walk around your ship while your buddy fly as Quantum drive speed to the outer reaches of space and you look trough the window and see planets and moons fly by you. That matters, to me and to many other players. Trust me on that.

Yeah I've seen the new COD trailers (lol trailers). Besides looking like a 90's game what about it? Yeah got some "inspiration" from Star Citizen but it's still aimed at the 12 year old Xbox kiddies. Another 6/10 game that everyone will forget it even existed after a couple of months, a bit like NoManSky.

 

[Sunleader]

Yes, I guess I am lying to fulfill a personal agenda of hatred against Star Citizen or something right? :\ You have a really poor memory dude:

Yes they planned to do it. I'm going to quote it again, it's been quoted twice already, but you're clearly not taking it in.

Clearly you don't believe this means walking around, so take a look at this kickstarter video from Dec 14 2012. So you can hear in a video, straight from David Braben's mouth, the actual words YOU WILL BE ABLE TO WALK AROUND

Go to 2:58.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM0Gcl7iUM8



You need to fact check. It seems to be a big problem with many of the posters who come and laud over Star Citizen in this thread. I want facts and I want to discuss facts, not random suppositions that turn out to be complete lies.

Lol I cant believe I actually Said Space Legs.
But well my Miss there.

So Ok they apparently Planned Walking around. Congratz. So now ED as well can Enjoy the Hate of People about Promising Tons of Stuff for whenever.
Oh wait. Not gonna happen. Biased People

Please point it out to me I'd like to enjoy it myself.

I am talking about this Reaction.
So David Braben Promising Tons of stuff "Ok Cool gonna get that"
Chris Roberts Promising Tons of stuff "Boo Scammer Thief whatever"

Thats called Double Standard.
Both just talked about their Vision there.
Both making non binding promises for an unknown future.

So why would you believe in ED but not in SC

You know? The main difference is Frontier has been delivering MORE than they originally promised. Somewhere along the road (over two years of deliveries) they accumulated some delays.
Clocking in at 2 months. Give or take.

That makes whatever they are promising quite likely to happen. As in- not really missed a deadline so far.
Where I come from that's a good record.

See here is the Good thing about being Wrong.
I was just Proven Wrong that FD actually did Promise tons of Stuff. Tons of Stuff they have yet to Deliver or even Name an Rough ETA For

And see thats the other thing.
What Good Record ???
They dont make Deadlines until 1-2 Months before they can Deliver.
Good Job.
Thats like I am Traveling to America. And 1 Hour before I arrive I call there. Saying Hey I.ll be there in 1 Hour.
Good Record I am Punctual.

Just to quote you again


Say what again? A rough feature a rough estimate date for coiming horizon updates. You are right SC "feature list" is hardly a roadmap.

The problem with SC's stretch goals is that they are "Paid for" promises i.e. "Give us this amount of money and we will include these features".

These features have to be delivered as CIG has taken money for them, and they are unambiguous - such as "The game will have 100 systems at release".

Things like Alien languages, VR support & pets have been promised and can't be dropped if they turn out to be difficult, they've already raised the money on the promise of delivering them.

Here comes the Double Standard again.

Mate no Offense.
But "Soon" is not an Rough Eta.
And that One Line Feature Descriptions are not Detailed Feature Info.

The Stretch Goal List of SC is doing the exactly same.
Except that ED is giving you 3 Features which they expect between now and when its Finished.
While SC is giving you the entire big Feature list between now and when its Finished.

No Offense Man.
But you guys said that ED has a Roadmap with its Planned Features and ETAs.
So where is that ?
It doesnt exist.
ED has an Upcoming Season Announcement. Which is Listing the Features due in THIS SEASON YOU ALREADY PAID FOR.
And its not listing an ETA at all. They are basicly saying its Finished when its Finished.




So No Offense.
But Horizons is out. I for my Part already Own it.
So how is this any Different than the Feature List of the Stretched Goals at SC ?

Its Simply Features that I already Paid for and which I am told to wait for till Unknown.


I once more Ask.
Where is this Roadmap of ED with the Planned Features for this Game and the Rough Estimates of them being Released

We just Established that Space Legs are in Fact Planned since 2012.
So where is that on the Feature List ?
Or is it just an promise like SC does ?


Your measuring things in a double Standard guys.
You claiming things in Star Citizen to be Wrong and a Scam etc.
While you Praise other Games for doing the exact same thing!

 

[dsmart]

You said the same thing about their gamescom presentation last year, how the Crusader Universe was never going to be playable by the players, again, wrong.
The whole "seamless" thing is not immaterial, or else Destiny would be considered a groundbreaking game hehehe. It adds everything to the game, you never get out of it being the most important one, the fact that you can walk around your ship while your buddy fly as Quantum drive speed to the outer reaches of space and you look trough the window and see planets and moons fly by you. That matters, to me and to many other players. Trust me on that. Nobody cared about your games when they released nobody cares about them now, just cut the promotional blabbering, save it for Discord#

No that's false. Go ahead and cite your sources.

In fact, my entire commentary about Gamescom2015 and CitizenCon2015, are showcased in my blogs.

And you don't know what "immaterial" means. It doesn't mean what you think it means. Plus it's all about context. But here, let me help you: seamless space<->planetary transition is immaterial to the game because it adds nothing to it. As I stated, it's a tech issue. You can't even compare it to that nonsensical "physics grid" crap you guys keep trotting out; when in fact, every game in existence which has players inside a moving object with physics, is doing the same thing. But having one physics body inside another is material to the game because it is needed for multi-crew to work. See the difference? Hope you learned something today.

ps: Since both Gamescom & CitizenCon 2015, it's been a year. Of hardly any tangible progress to the [-]game[/-] tech-demo. The same ganky bug-ridden crap they had then, and which they rushed out as the PU, is still what you guys are playing today. Except you can now do it naked.

pps: Again. Changing the subject from Star Citizen and making it about me or my games, isn't going to make Star Citizen any better; let alone lead to its release. But keep going though, we have no trouble with laughing. I don't care about you or your ilk, but clearly you care about me and my games; which is why you keep dragging them into SC discussions. Even as your hilarious anecdotes fall flat (yeah, nobody cares about my games, but here I am. The joke's on you. All day, every day).

 

[Komemiute]

See here is the Good thing about being Wrong.
I was just Proven Wrong that FD actually did Promise tons of Stuff. Tons of Stuff they have yet to Deliver or even Name an Rough ETA For

And see thats the other thing.
What Good Record ???
They dont make Deadlines until 1-2 Months before they can Deliver.
Good Job.
Thats like I am Traveling to America. And 1 Hour before I arrive I call there. Saying Hey I.ll be there in 1 Hour.
Good Record I am Punctual.

...

Negating the evidence is not making you look any smart. *Whop there it is*, directly into the bin of "Ignored people!".
Ciao.


***

EDIT: Star Citizen: respecting deadlines you can achieve is for dummies.

 

[Tippis]

So No Offense.
But Horizons is out. I for my Part already Own it.
So how is this any Different than the Feature List of the Stretched Goals at SC ?

The difference is that it's a list of headline features, with an estimate of an actual delivery time, whereas SC's list of stretch goals is nothing more than that: bunch of stretch goals. It is nothing even remotely resembling a roadmap, schedule, or deliverables plan like you tried to suggest it was. The difference is also that FDev has delivered on their promised features, at times even kind of close to the suggested release date, whereas CIG is two years behind schedule and counting. You said it yourself: Horizons is out; you already own it.

I once more Ask.
Where is this Roadmap of ED with the Planned Features for this Game and the Rough Estimates of them being Released

…but that was never the question, now was it? That's just you moving the goalposts when it turned out that, once again, you hadn't done your research even when it was handed to you and that the thing you said didn't exist actually existed (and, again, was handed to you).

 

[Maruun]

Lol I cant believe I actually Said Space Legs.
But well my Miss there.

So Ok they apparently Planned Walking around. Congratz. So now ED as well can Enjoy the Hate of People about Promising Tons of Stuff for whenever.
Oh wait. Not gonna happen. Biased People




I am talking about this Reaction.
So David Braben Promising Tons of stuff "Ok Cool gonna get that"
Chris Roberts Promising Tons of stuff "Boo Scammer Thief whatever"

Thats called Double Standard.
Both just talked about their Vision there.
Both making non binding promises for an unknown future.

So why would you believe in ED but not in SC



See here is the Good thing about being Wrong.
I was just Proven Wrong that FD actually did Promise tons of Stuff. Tons of Stuff they have yet to Deliver or even Name an Rough ETA For

And see thats the other thing.
What Good Record ???
They dont make Deadlines until 1-2 Months before they can Deliver.
Good Job.
Thats like I am Traveling to America. And 1 Hour before I arrive I call there. Saying Hey I.ll be there in 1 Hour.
Good Record I am Punctual.







Here comes the Double Standard again.

Mate no Offense.
But "Soon" is not an Rough Eta.
And that One Line Feature Descriptions are not Detailed Feature Info.

The Stretch Goal List of SC is doing the exactly same.
Except that ED is giving you 3 Features which they expect between now and when its Finished.
While SC is giving you the entire big Feature list between now and when its Finished.

No Offense Man.
But you guys said that ED has a Roadmap with its Planned Features and ETAs.
So where is that ?
It doesnt exist.
ED has an Upcoming Season Announcement. Which is Listing the Features due in THIS SEASON YOU ALREADY PAID FOR.
And its not listing an ETA at all. They are basicly saying its Finished when its Finished.




So No Offense.
But Horizons is out. I for my Part already Own it.
So how is this any Different than the Feature List of the Stretched Goals at SC ?

Its Simply Features that I already Paid for and which I am told to wait for till Unknown.


I once more Ask.
Where is this Roadmap of ED with the Planned Features for this Game and the Rough Estimates of them being Released

We just Established that Space Legs are in Fact Planned since 2012.
So where is that on the Feature List ?
Or is it just an promise like SC does ?


Your measuring things in a double Standard guys.
You claiming things in Star Citizen to be Wrong and a Scam etc.
While you Praise other Games for doing the exact same thing!

Are you purposly ignorant? If thats the case i wont waste any more writing then this.
2.1 Spring
2.2 Summer
2.3 Autumn
are ROUGH estimates like you called.

You are "offensive" by being ignorant...saying "no offense" doesnt change that at all.

You give credits to a massive feature list without any resemblance of being thought out? You want a "feature list" that has been pushed back by FD but still viewable?
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/36-Design-Discussion-Archive

This is the entire "feature list" that was gone through, with how a feature could work and all. I giant brainstorming archive, and yes citique against it that will rise by mentioning it is to a degree rightfully so. In the end it is what i called it a feature brainstorming how much of it will make it into the game itself or in the way its described their is to be seen and FD already distanced themself as far as i know from it, because its technically "dreams talking" and they know it.

Add:
Does Star citzien beside a giant long list of feature to be done do any effort to elaborate how to accomplish them and how they will work without suffering through endless snippets of informations thrown the last 4 years?

We are 4 years in and still noone can tell you with absolute fact how basic game mechanic or feature will work. Beside some people will not even believe those facts if they exist because we are talking about Chris "two weeks" Robers. Before scrapping an entire module.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I am talking about this Reaction.
So David Braben Promising Tons of stuff "Ok Cool gonna get that"
Chris Roberts Promising Tons of stuff "Boo Scammer Thief whatever"

Thats called Double Standard.
Both just talked about their Vision there.
Both making non binding promises for an unknown future.

Some differences.

Braben has released his game.
Roberts hasn't, and there is still no clear understanding of when players will really see a 1.0 release with even a 10th of the content promised.

Braben talks more about what he would like to see. "What we would like to do is..."
Roberts makes promises. "Yes, this will be in the game..."

That's the difference.

 

[lysan]

Ok. You just lost it. Any semblance of having a clue went right out the window with that one. You just confirmed that you are nothing but a very petty troll — congratulations.

I think the baby went out the window too LMAO!!

 

[Ian Skippy]

So Ok they apparently Planned Walking around. Congratz. So now ED as well can Enjoy the Hate of People about Promising Tons of Stuff for whenever.
Oh wait. Not gonna happen. Biased People




I am talking about this Reaction.
So David Braben Promising Tons of stuff "Ok Cool gonna get that"
Chris Roberts Promising Tons of stuff "Boo Scammer Thief whatever"

Here is the difference. I'll try to keep it simple, may that works for you.

David Braben:"We would like to do X and Y."
Chris Roberts:"We'll deliver all of this in 2014!"

All ED stretch goals from the KS have been reached. There is loads of stuff that would be cool to have, and we'll see if we get that. CIG took a load of money for stretch goals and they already said they wont deliver that on release. See the difference? I dont think you know what 'promise', 'double standard', 'stretch goal' and such terms mean. As said before, try google before you post.

 

[Asylum]

Lol I cant believe I actually Said Space Legs.
But well my Miss there.

So Ok they apparently Planned Walking around. Congratz. So now ED as well can Enjoy the Hate of People about Promising Tons of Stuff for whenever.
Oh wait. Not gonna happen. Biased People




I am talking about this Reaction.
So David Braben Promising Tons of stuff "Ok Cool gonna get that"
Chris Roberts Promising Tons of stuff "Boo Scammer Thief whatever"

Thats called Double Standard.
Both just talked about their Vision there.
Both making non binding promises for an unknown future.

So why would you believe in ED but not in SC



See here is the Good thing about being Wrong.
I was just Proven Wrong that FD actually did Promise tons of Stuff. Tons of Stuff they have yet to Deliver or even Name an Rough ETA For

And see thats the other thing.
What Good Record ???
They dont make Deadlines until 1-2 Months before they can Deliver.
Good Job.
Thats like I am Traveling to America. And 1 Hour before I arrive I call there. Saying Hey I.ll be there in 1 Hour.
Good Record I am Punctual.







Here comes the Double Standard again.

Mate no Offense.
But "Soon" is not an Rough Eta.
And that One Line Feature Descriptions are not Detailed Feature Info.

The Stretch Goal List of SC is doing the exactly same.
Except that ED is giving you 3 Features which they expect between now and when its Finished.
While SC is giving you the entire big Feature list between now and when its Finished.

No Offense Man.
But you guys said that ED has a Roadmap with its Planned Features and ETAs.
So where is that ?
It doesnt exist.
ED has an Upcoming Season Announcement. Which is Listing the Features due in THIS SEASON YOU ALREADY PAID FOR.
And its not listing an ETA at all. They are basicly saying its Finished when its Finished.




So No Offense.
But Horizons is out. I for my Part already Own it.
So how is this any Different than the Feature List of the Stretched Goals at SC ?

Its Simply Features that I already Paid for and which I am told to wait for till Unknown.


I once more Ask.
Where is this Roadmap of ED with the Planned Features for this Game and the Rough Estimates of them being Released

We just Established that Space Legs are in Fact Planned since 2012.
So where is that on the Feature List ?
Or is it just an promise like SC does ?


Your measuring things in a double Standard guys.
You claiming things in Star Citizen to be Wrong and a Scam etc.
While you Praise other Games for doing the exact same thing!

Sweet fancy Moses.

You are a fly caught in a widows web mate. For anyone with an ounce of sense can see you are just spinning yourself in circles, with each post (movement) you tangle yourself up even more.

I can't make any sense of your nonsense.

Take offence or don't I dont really care.

Wow

 

[Ian Skippy]

Braben talks more about what he would like to see. "What we would like to do is..."
Roberts makes promises. "Yes, this will be in the game..."

That's the difference.

Dont forget CR explicitly charges money for these promises. People already paid for stuff he is know saying he wont release. FD delivered all stretch goals already, plus a lot more.

 

[dsmart]

I think the baby went out the window too LMAO!!

I still see the kitchen sink over in the corner. Should I toss that out the window too?