The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Esvandiary]

I am talking about this Reaction.
So David Braben Promising Tons of stuff "Ok Cool gonna get that"
Chris Roberts Promising Tons of stuff "Boo Scammer Thief whatever"

Thats called Double Standard.
Both just talked about their Vision there.
Both making non binding promises for an unknown future.

So why would you believe in ED but not in SC

Perhaps because we haven't paid FD money for nebulous features they haven't nailed down a release date for.
SC is paid for by the backers, who paid that money because CR said that certain things would be in the game. Some of those things are now quietly disappearing, others (e.g. modding/private servers) are being shelved to a point where we can likely assume they'll never happen.

As far as I'm concerned any developer can talk my ear off about all the great features they're going to have - if they're not asking for our money directly to make those features happen. The only place FD are doing something comparable to that is with promised features in the current season of ED, and they specify when those are likely to arrive. Sometimes those dates will still be missed, but I'm sure you'd agree that FD have been pretty honest about delays if and when they happen. Either way, having taken people's money FD do the right thing and tell people specifically when and how the features they've paid for are going to be delivered.

 

[Komemiute]

Dont forget CR explicitly charges money for these promises. People already paid for stuff he is know saying he wont release. FD delivered all stretch goals already, plus a lot more.

Which, is worth mentioning, are split across the base game and paid expansion. So- play without further money injection in ED is totally viable.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Ok. You just lost it. Any semblance of having a clue went right out the window with that one. You just confirmed that you are nothing but a very petty troll — congratulations.

Well, you have to feel somewhat sympathetic to their situation. It used to be that they would have an awesome FPS/flying combination game about a single-player/co-op military sci-fi campaign in 2015. Now the co-op, among other things, has been cancelled, and two rivals (ME:A and COD:IW) are getting here first while looking great, with still pretty much nothing known about SQ42. That is really painful, and I can understand the more feebleminded CIG fans really need to block the truth a little bit here.

 

[Tippis]

Well, you have to feel somewhat sympathetic to their situation.

You know, now that you mention it…



…no, I really don't.

 

[frostypaw]

I am talking about this Reaction.
So David Braben Promising Tons of stuff "Ok Cool gonna get that"
Chris Roberts Promising Tons of stuff "Boo Scammer Thief whatever"

The difference is track record.

Not one of CR's projects has lived up to how he's sold it. NOT ONE. Nothing of what's been delivered so far lives up to any of it's promises other than being pretty - as of yet there's zero evidence that this trend is about to dramatically reverse itself.

Frontier deliver what they say they'll deliver. When they don't they've made it up to people.

That's why.

 

[Komemiute]

Well, you have to feel somewhat sympathetic to their situation. It used to be that they would have an awesome FPS/flying combination game about a single-player/co-op military sci-fi campaign in 2015. Now the co-op, among other things, has been cancelled, and two rivals (ME:A and COD:IW) are getting here first while looking great, with still pretty much nothing known about SQ42. That is really painful, and I can understand the more feebleminded CIG fans really need to block the truth a little bit here.

It's easier to feel empathy for people when they are simpathetic and logical.

 

[CMDR_Orlando]

No that's false. Go ahead and cite your sources.

In fact, my entire commentary about Gamescom2015 and CitizenCon2015, are showcased in my blogs.

And you don't know what "immaterial" means. It doesn't mean what you think it means. Plus it's all about context. But here, let me help you: seamless space<->planetary transition is immaterial to the game because it adds nothing to it. As I stated, it's a tech issue. You can't even compare it to that nonsensical "physics grid" crap you guys keep trotting out; when in fact, every game in existence which has players inside a moving object with physics, is doing the same thing. But having one physics body inside another is material to the game because it is needed for multi-crew to work. See the difference? Hope you learned something today.

ps: Since both Gamescom & CitizenCon 2015, it's been a year. Of hardly any tangible progress to the [-]game[/-] tech-demo. The same ganky bug-ridden crap they had then, and which they rushed out as the PU, is still what you guys are playing today. Except you can now do it naked.

Haha it's all over your twitter meltdowns, between accusations of "fake large maps", acusations that you used again this year (same tactic) to try and push the "demo was on rails/pre-rendered/faked hehehe. Who would have thought that despair could look so funny.

Yeah I know what immaterial means, for you and your games it might be. Not for Star Citizen, because it allows for gameplay to happen while you are travelling. People can have fun goofing around inside their ship instead of needing to read a manual to get a degree in desktop commanding. The biggest thing you could learn would be about what is fun for gamers, something that Chris Roberts managed to learn from a very young age.

Both the Gamescom & Citizencon 2015 Star Citizen footage is now available to play in a much better shape and with more content. Bugs and glitches are part of it, you should know that because you develop games. [big grin]

 

[lysan]

I still see the kitchen sink over in the corner. Should I toss that out the window too?

LOLROF everything must go now!!

Spoiler

 

[Asylum]

Haha it's all over your twitter meltdowns, between accusations of "fake large maps", acusations that you used again this year (same tactic) to try and push the "demo was on rails/pre-rendered/faked hehehe. Who would have thought that despair could look so funny.

Yeah I know what immaterial means, for you and your games it might be. Not for Star Citizen, because it allows for gameplay to happen while you are travelling. People can have fun goofing around inside their ship instead of needing to read a manual to get a degree in desktop commanding. The biggest thing you could learn would be about what is fun for gamers, something that Chris Roberts managed to learn from a very young age.

Both the Gamescom & Citizencon 2015 Star Citizen footage is now available to play in a much better shape and with more content. Bugs and glitches are part of it, you should know that because you develop games. [big grin]

Hope you've got some cover mate, incoming.

 

[Ian Skippy]

It's easier to feel empathy for people when they are simpathetic and logical.

Well, maybe it helps that I've worked with some really unsympathetic and irrational patients when I worked as a neuro-psychologist. Still a great lesson I've learned: if you feel anyone is getting to you, just see them as a patient and smile.

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People can have fun goofing around inside their ship instead of needing to read a manual to get a degree in desktop commanding.

Yeah, I love trying to sit in a bugged chair way more than having depth in my games too!

 

[lysan]

Well, maybe it helps that I've worked with some really unsympathetic and irrational patients when I worked as a neuro-psychologist. Still a great lesson I've learned: if you feel anyone is getting to you, just see them as a patient and smile.

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Yeah, I love trying to sit in a bugged chair way more than having depth in my games too!

Well, some people actually like a complex game, if iphone games where the target I would play that instead

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Quick question: when SC did the iterative patches of 2.5 (up to "r" I think?) in the test bed, was that a 30Gig re-download every time, or did they manage to get something differential working?

My ISP would be sending me to bed early with no milk if I tried to download several hundred Gigs a month and I'm on a supposedly tip top UK package.

 

[Tippis]

Well, maybe it helps that I've worked with some really unsympathetic and irrational patients when I worked as a neuro-psychologist. Still a great lesson I've learned: if you feel anyone is getting to you, just see them as a patient and smile.

Ouch. Harsh.

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Quick question: when SC did the iterative patches of 2.5 (up to "r" I think?) in the test bed, was that a 30Gig re-download every time, or did they manage to get something differential working?

No, doing something that's built into the engine and editor and umpteen different third-party solution is still a bit beyond their capacity. So full-PAK downloads it is.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Yeah, I love trying to sit in a bugged chair way more than having depth in my games too!

What part of "alpha" don't you get? Are you expecting to play "alpha" content bug free? Surely you must know by now that "alpha" means the game is in development and typically, it's Beta when they fix the bugs.

 

[Ian Phillips]

What part of "aplha" don't you get? ...

Generally the bit where "Alpha" = "Awesome playable game" seems to be the bit that doesn't get understood.

 

[killminster]

I am talking about this Reaction.
So David Braben Promising Tons of stuff "Ok Cool gonna get that"
Chris Roberts Promising Tons of stuff "Boo Scammer Thief whatever"

Thats called Double Standard.
Both just talked about their Vision there.
Both making non binding promises for an unknown future.

So why would you believe in ED but not in SC

Okay so with regard to putting more faith in DB than CR; DB has a good track record of delivering what people have paid money for in a timely fashion (whether you think what he's produced is good that's down to subjective opinion). CR continues to talk the talk, and take peoples money, all you have is a bug laden Alpha and a release date that is receding ever further into the future (I never called CR a scammer or a thief so that is just some projection on your part, a subconscious fear of yours perhaps?).

So based on that comparison that's why I would believe in ED and not SC.

See here is the Good thing about being Wrong.
I was just Proven Wrong that FD actually did Promise tons of Stuff. Tons of Stuff they have yet to Deliver or even Name an Rough ETA For

And see thats the other thing.
What Good Record ???
They dont make Deadlines until 1-2 Months before they can Deliver.
Good Job.
Thats like I am Traveling to America. And 1 Hour before I arrive I call there. Saying Hey I.ll be there in 1 Hour.
Good Record I am Punctual.

Okay you're going to hammer ED for delays of 1-2 months yet let the fact that SC is 2? 3? 4? years behind schedule go?! Double standard much?!![squeeeee]

Here comes the Double Standard again.

Oh great looking forwards to this one, go on....

ED has an Upcoming Season Announcement. Which is Listing the Features due in THIS SEASON YOU ALREADY PAID FOR.
And its not listing an ETA at all. They are basicly saying its Finished when its Finished.


So No Offense.
But Horizons is out. I for my Part already Own it.
So how is this any Different than the Feature List of the Stretched Goals at SC ?

Its Simply Features that I already Paid for and which I am told to wait for till Unknown.

The only difference is that on current performance of both developers ED is much more likely to deliver what they have sold to you within a reasonable time frame than SC. At the moment I would laugh in anyone's face if they tried to tell me that SC will be released and deliver all of its stretch goals, the stuff, y'know

YOU ALREADY PAID FOR

, before DB announces Season 3. And yet again not knowing precisely when ED is going to deliver seems to be a bad thing but the same with SC is tolerable (buy an Idris)? I sense double standard here...

I once more Ask.
Where is this Roadmap of ED with the Planned Features for this Game and the Rough Estimates of them being Released

This is the closest I think you're going to get to a roadmap https://www.frontierstore.net/games/elite-dangerous-cat/elite-dangerous-horizons-dlc.html. It tells you what they're planning, no dates, but hey you seem happy to let SC get away with it why not ED..... oh is that a double standard I see?

Your measuring things in a double Standard guys.

Maybe we're just mirroring your behavior

You claiming things in Star Citizen to be Wrong and a Scam etc.
While you Praise other Games for doing the exact same thing!

To be fair to SC and CR I don't think it's a scam at all, I think it's just a terribly mismanaged project that is completely out of control. I prefer to "never assign malice where incompetence will do".

I also would be happy to be proven wrong and SC be a massive success and be the BDSSE, I'll even buy it. But I don't think that will ever happen.

 

[Soliluna]

Some differences.

Braben has released his game.
Roberts hasn't, and there is still no clear understanding of when players will really see a 1.0 release with even a 10th of the content promised.

Braben talks more about what he would like to see. "What we would like to do is..."
Roberts makes promises. "Yes, this will be in the game..."

That's the difference.

Not to mention the myriad of caveats to the approach, i.e. funding, development time, development priority, whether the gameplay makes sense, whether the lore makes sense, whether the players are happy with the approach, whether it has the quality the developers/players expect.

All of which are discussed, front and centre, no "Yes, you'll definitely see this", "Oh sorry, it's actually not feasible".

Sunleader's posts are misleading, he speaks about facts by saying "this is certain", "I definitely didn't do this" etc. while constantly being proven wrong, and yet tirelessly continues.

I wouldn't go as far to say he is a liar but it is clear that his vision/dream(or perhaps Croberts' vision) clouds his objectivity.

 

[dsmart]

Haha it's all over your twitter meltdowns, between accusations of "fake large maps", acusations that you used again this year (same tactic) to try and push the "demo was on rails/pre-rendered/faked hehehe. Who would have thought that despair could look so funny.

Yeah I know what immaterial means, for you and your games it might be. Not for Star Citizen, because it allows for gameplay to happen while you are travelling. People can have fun goofing around inside their ship instead of needing to read a manual to get a degree in desktop commanding. The biggest thing you could learn would be about what is fun for gamers, something that Chris Roberts managed to learn from a very young age.

Both the Gamescom & Citizencon 2015 Star Citizen footage is now available to play in a much better shape and with more content. Bugs and glitches are part of it, you should know that because you develop games. [big grin]

In other words, you're lying and have no sources. OK, got it.

You've either lost it, or you are devoid of a clue. In your book, transition from space to planet without a loading screen is material to the game because "people can have fun goofing around inside their ship". I don't even have the energy to laugh. So I'm just going to smirk, and take another sip of my coffee.

 

[tooterfish]

But it was sure as hell not planned.

It was planned. It was in the kickstarter, it was in the development diaries.

You know what's really funny. As soon as I posted that kickstarter quote, I knew you try to twist the meaning and generally be a complete weasel about it. Because that's been your general tone for a while now. Repeating that it "wasn't planned" over and over isn't going to make you any less wrong, try being intellectually honest for once and admit that you were mistaken.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for the 3d radar scope you said the original Elite copied its radar display from.

 

[ZeeWolf]

David Braben:"We would like to do X and Y."
Chris Roberts:"We'll deliver all of this in 2014!"

Sean Murray: "We did X, maybe Y, but the chances of anyone finding it are less than zero"

Sorry :-D