The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Stigbob]

I'm actually here because the echo chambers pretty regularly eject criticism and difficult questions.

1. Is there not a problem with CR claiming MVP?
2. Netcode is the biggest issue right now, do you reasonably expect, given CIG/RSI's up and down track record of delivering on their promises, that it will be fixed in 3.0?
3. What is the explanation for years of promised dates followed by delay, followed by new dates that are then followed by further delay?

Theory-crafting warning

I don't think he was supposed to say MVP, I think he was advised to rein in scope-creep and nudge backers in the direction of more realistic expectations and not promise any mad new stuff. But in a Freudian slip he blurted out the one thing he really wasn't supposed to say to backers, which was on his mind as it's what they've resigned themselves to achieving.

 

[Maruun]

I never understood the hype with ED I don't know where people got their idea's from, EVE in a cockpit in particular (owning and controlling territory) was a very popular theory prior to release although it went exactly against what FD had repeatedly said. I was expecting (and got) a remake of 1984 with modern graphics and sound. Everything else is a bonus.

With ED I'd say that the pre gamma stages with a (comparably) small number of systems was the MVP stage. You can't really call a 1.1 scale galaxy minimum anything.

ED's MVP was much larger than SC's dream feature complete never to be delivered bonsai galaxy though.

Fair enough, i think i got carried away a little with expectations when i witnessed the progress in premium beta from the 4 systems and gradually growing accessable galaxy.
In the end i think it worked out for them pretty good, and to this day i am rather confident that FD will be able to form ED to something great in the future...i dont need faith for that, i have evidence they can from what they delivered so far.
I cant say the same for SC at this point.

 

[FuriousMeow]

Calling building up a company from scratch 'mismanagement' is rubbish.

Spending two years developing assets and then throwing them and/or refactoring them several times is mismanagement.

 

[Osmanthus]

Which is precisely why I discount any comments stating that the game has been in development for 5 years. Technically it is true, but those comments ignore a huge aspect of this project, and those comments show an unfortunate unwillingness to come away from their bias.

But the trouble is, 'full-scale' is such a fuzzy concept that anyone could use it however they wanted to. Because of this, even if we find a number we agree on, (say, 2 years, which I think is pretty charitable but never mind), how do we compare the game with anything else? What basis do we have for saying development has been fast or slow?

 

[GordFreeman]

However, I think the SC defenders have left the thread...not because they have been ejected due to moderation or down-voting, rather, they run out of counters.

Haha! Yeah... you can only counter the same criticisms so many different ways!!!

 

[Osmanthus]

Haha! Yeah... you can only counter the same criticisms so many different ways!!!

tbf, those counters have been pretty rubbish...
certainly, some criticisms have been too! but that's neither here nor there

 

[GordFreeman]

But the trouble is, 'full-scale' is such a fuzzy concept that anyone could use it however they wanted to. Because of this, even if we find a number we agree on, (say, 2 years, which I think is pretty charitable but never mind), how do we compare the game with anything else? What basis do we have for saying development has been fast or slow?

That's more than half the problem here. You people are obsessed with comparing that which cannot be compared.

 

[Osmanthus]

That's more than half the problem here. You people are obsessed with comparing that which cannot be compared.

Hold on, let's not get away from the point. Let's say the game has been in full-scale development 2 years. Let's say I then make the claim that 2 years full-scale development is a long time not to have released the game. Am I wrong, and if so, why?

 

[Zyll Goliat]

2020 - 2025? Pretty much whatever Chris thinks needs it to be depending on whoever he's talking to at the time.

 

[Monk]

But the trouble is, 'full-scale' is such a fuzzy concept that anyone could use it however they wanted to. Because of this, even if we find a number we agree on, (say, 2 years, which I think is pretty charitable but never mind), how do we compare the game with anything else? What basis do we have for saying development has been fast or slow?

It lends to the narrative that CR wasn't talking from a position of experience or knowledge when he pitched his release dates...and subsequent ones. He was dead wrong about how the company and game were going to come together. I only hope he has learned his lesson and can move forward now with actually making a game. Time will tell.

 

[Maruun]

That's more than half the problem here. You people are obsessed with comparing that which cannot be compared.

Problem with that is SC/CR himself loves to compare his work with everybody else. "Making FPS on the level of COD/Arma" "PG never seen before" "We dont do it like game X we do it with more fidelity" ect ect.

Thats what i meant with SC makes it to easy to make fun out of them...they complelty started it.

 

[Monk]

Problem with that is SC/CR himself loves to compare his work with everybody else. "Making FPS on the level of COD/Arma" "PG never seen before" "We dont do it like game X we do it with more fidelity" ect ect.

Thats what i meant with SC makes it to easy to make fun out of them...they complelty started it.

If I had a nickel for every time a salesman has put his own foot in his mouth.

 

[GordFreeman]

Hold on, let's not get away from the point. Let's say the game has been in full-scale development 2 years. Let's say I then make the claim that 2 years full-scale development is a long time not to have released the game. Am I wrong, and if so, why?

Yes. I do believe I remember charts of other well received large projects that went a lot longer than 2 years. Projects from established companies at that.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

If I had a nickel for every time a salesman has put his own foot in his mouth.

Now you are just taking cheap shots at the avatar glitches in the PU! (kidding)

 

[GordFreeman]

Thats what i meant with SC makes it to easy to make fun out of them...they complelty started it.

Whatever floats yer boat...

 

[Maruun]

Whatever floats yer boat...

...citizens arguments they are so lofty...

God damn it, its just too easy...

 

[hairychris]

Whatever floats yer boat...

Or sinks it, in this case...

 

[GordFreeman]

It lends to the narrative that CR wasn't talking from a position of experience or knowledge when he pitched his release dates...and subsequent ones. He was dead wrong about how the company and game were going to come together. I only hope he has learned his lesson and can move forward now with actually making a game. Time will tell.

It's probably two-fold. He underestimated the amount of work, and he underestimated the level of funding he would receive which obviously compounded on the former. I have no issue saying that CR grossly misstated the timeline, but I don't think less of the man because of that.

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Or sinks it, in this case...

Yep. I do believe that cynics will sink their own boats with all this effort...

 

[ianw]

It lends to the narrative that CR wasn't talking from a position of experience or knowledge when he pitched his release dates...and subsequent ones. He was dead wrong about how the company and game were going to come together. I only hope he has learned his lesson and can move forward now with actually making a game. Time will tell.

That's the thing they're happy to make comparisons when they think it favours them - but when it doesn't the old nothing compares card gets played.

It's always looked like they've been making it up as they go along - because they didn't expect the cash to come pouring in as it did.

But when it did - apparently - what are they gonna do?

Guys we're getting 2 to 3 million a month just dropping into the account - we've got to put a stop to this now and get this game out the door!

They found an actual golden goose - magic beans - whatever you want to call it.

So now they try and make the game worth the money - Chris himself said if you give him 100 mill he'll give you a 100 mill game - why should it stop there?

On it goes - till the money stops - if it does - then who knows what?

 

[Maruun]

It's probably two-fold. He underestimated the amount of work, and he underestimated the level of funding he would receive. I have no issue saying that CR grossly misstated the timeline, but I don't think less of the man because of that.

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Yep. I do believe that cynicists will sink their own boats with all this effort...

There is not even effort needed, thats the whole problem. SC Fans come in here and tell me how i dare to criticse SC and what happens around it. If you confront them with your arguments its always the same stuff, "didnt you see that marketing video, didnt you see that marketing show" You are misinformed, while quoting stuff actually said by those behind SC. Then you will be called a hater, beside bringing valid points and concerns about SC. To the point where you are arguing with a wall, that isnt interest in any perspective and experience you had with SC and was just here to stir you up.