The Star Citizen Thread v5

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Meanwhile, more helpful, balanced and totally sensible commentary about the Kotaku article over on the RSI forums...
Oh.

But that can't be right?! I thought it was *this* thread that had a bunch of loony, aggressive, boorish and ignorant posters on it, not the sainted RSI!

*Edit* And more examples of the type of "fans" that support Star Citizen as that brave dude Jeffrey McArthur, who managed to fight through cancer whilst getting attacked for his failure to find anything fun or exciting or understandable to do in the game in a video he posted on YouTube, still gets nonsense chucked his way.

First, that RSI cap is 100% valid. My previous CTO was canned not to long ago and they were fairly salty about the whole situation and he contributed many years to the organization I work for so please try not to be hyerbolic with your examples. Nothing within that post was vitriolic nor was it condescending.

Second, I didn't see any negativity in that other cap. What I read was a discussion between two adults. I think you're making a mountain out of a ant hill. Better yet this is more along the lines of condemning a community for the actions of a few. Gee, I wonder where else in life people do this....?

Now have some posted inappropriate comments to this gentlemen, yes; do I detest those comments, yes; do they have every right to say those comments, 100% absolutely yes; are these comments representative of the overall community, NO.

What does Chris Roberts interview look like when you take out the intervening article and focus just on what he said?

"...what you want is people who are...not always trying to go 'This won't work'"

"It's kind of like having children..."

"I'm trying to be tougher on our organisation because every time we're in a situation I think we can turn around, but the person doesn't turn it around, they get a little more bitter and off, and then the exit is more noisy."

"When I really lose it, it's because people passive-aggressively don't [do what they’ve been instructed], and instead try to push their agenda, coming up with reasons why it needs to be this other way. That really, really annoys me because it just creates friction all the time. I like to have a lot of really good creative people around and I like them to contribute all their ideas but when I say we're going left instead of right, everyone needs to go left."

"That's kind of why I like the setup of movies. You may disagree with what the director is doing, how he is shooting a scene, how he is blocking it, but it doesn't matter: you still make it happen for that director because it's going to be on his shoulders. If the game doesn't work, it's on me, not on a junior designer or something."

"I felt like people kept giving me the same answers, and I would let them have it. I’d say 'You just told me this last time. You've got to have a better answer. Why isn't this thing working? Give me a reason. You can't just say it was their fault'. I'm generally quite nice until I feel there is something not happening, or something that I need to call out. But that's the way I've always been. Sometimes I think it can be hard for some people.”

"...at some point I will say 'You've got to get your act together. A bunch of people are depending on this thing to happen, so what are we doing? What's the plan?' People can consider it being tough or public shaming, but I'm not going 'You're a frelling idiot' – that's not how I operate. But I will call people out if they've said one thing and then come back a week later and don't follow up properly."

“That is an example of people saying 'No, I can't do it' and fighting that corner. They are the people I don't get on with and they are the people who end up not being at the company…"

"...if the pushback is 'Well, I didn't do this when I was working at this other company', then, well, here we're trying to push it a bit more and if you can't get on board then you're probably not right for the team."

"“There's a certain OCD about checking everything [with the art, which he says loves] because I want everything to look good. It's also a matter of getting [the message] to the team, what I like and what my taste is, and then you build up trust."

"I'm not willing to compromise on some stuff and I'm pretty stubborn about it. Sometimes, for someone else that can be tough to deal with or frustrating but I don't really want to change. I'm not doing this to always make friends with everyone..."

This.

THIS is what you think a "reasonable, well balanced and credible" leader of a multi-million dollar company that is trying to do things "openly" and NOT like the big, evil, smelly game publishers that Roberts so loathes... looks like?

Orlando?

Briguy?

Anybody?

And you really think I care how someone runs their own company or that I have any power to change that? So long as there is progress and people aren't leaving in mass droves, I could care less how CRoberts manages or micro-manages his teams. If the employees are staying in this purported toxic environment, that is completely on them and I have very little sympathy for people who stick around places they despise. These, for lack of a better term, disgruntled employees could easily stand by their principles and look for another job/piece out of there.

Now would I do or say some of the stuff he has purportedly said/done, no I wouldn't but I'm smart and sensible enough to know that my perspective and/or opinions has zero influence. So instead of wasting time and energy harping on something I have no control over, I spend my time and energy on things I like to do like play video games, learn new languages or read books.
 
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Meanwhile in wonderland.....
Hidden%20gem_zpsxunlk45e.jpg

ahhh NO...NO COMMENT........
 
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Classic reaction: "Nooo, that can't be true!"

They had the same violent denial phase back when Star Marine was canceled, only to then defend CIG when they claimed that SM was actually "already in the game"...
 
Classic reaction: "Nooo, that can't be true!"

They had the same violent denial phase back when Star Marine was canceled, only to then defend CIG when they claimed that SM was actually "already in the game"...
At this rate, this bit will start the loading of any module of SC, maybe the logo changed to CIG & "E A sports" voiced over as "R S I"...
[video=youtube;XSliaQ3a_5Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSliaQ3a_5Y[/video]
 
Pathetic. And those people vote...

You know what is really pathetic....those same people are always first to post whenever someone dares to open thread that is critical towards the SC,CIG or CR.......that´s how they choke any possible diversity...
 
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It's extraordinary - for some of these citizens it's flat out denial until that breaks down then it's rant about Derek and LoD.

That Kotaku thing really ruffled some feathers and it's apparently only the first part..

The Kotaku article was well balanced and fair, it covered all aspects of wasting time and money without showing favoritism or bias to any particular type of incompetence.
 
The Kotaku article was well balanced and fair, it covered all aspects of wasting time and money without showing favoritism or bias to any particular type of incompetence.

Yes - it didn't read like a hit piece.

Interestingly it seems to have divided some of the more devoted citizens.

Some are seeing positives whereas others are flat out denying it's real in any way - I don't think we've seen that to such an extent before.

Apparently more due next week as below (saw it on SA). I couldn't find the actual post to link to because apparently I don't understand twitter..

@jBenson

@ultrabrilliant cheers! We've got some really good (mostly shorter) pieces coming next week, too
11:42 AM - 23 Sep 2016
 
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They may be holding back a feature about toxic citizens making threats and rampaging round the internet on a crusade. Logically if they run it later in the series the earlier parts will generate fresh first hand examples they can use for the later article.
 
The Kotaku article was well balanced and fair, it covered all aspects of wasting time and money without showing favoritism or bias to any particular type of incompetence.

I thought it was really good. Honestly, I much prefer this more candid Chris Roberts and there were a few things I had little idea about. I notice there were lots of SC fans in the comments claiming to feel "reassured" by it. Who knows? Maybe this is the start of CIG growing up a bit? Maybe they'll stop selling ships and maybe CR will stop talking endlessly about new features he just made up. Ok maybe not... I think I would be more forgiving if these were mistakes made by a private studio using investment funding rather than fan money. Big projects often have troubled development paths - but the fan touted line has always been that "Chris knows what he's doing" - "Take as much time as you need, get it right, don't rush". Maybe Star Citizen is a game for 2020 but he shouldn't have assumed that the backers of 2012 were thinking that far ahead.

Reading the article confirmed what most of us suspected. That Erin and the talent at Foundry 42 have been the most professional studio. It seems to be history repeating itself perhaps. There may be hope for SQ42 given the size of the team in Manchester, I suspect their efforts will eventually reap rewards if they stop being distracted with the pipe dream demos. My suspicion is SQ42 will release eventually as a fairly competent single player space adventure and the PU will be delivered to hard drives in many vertical slices for quite some time before we can fly off and actually start grinding a better ship without the use of a major real world credit-card.

I was watching Kim Justice's excellent series on The Rise and Fall of Peter Molyneux the other day. It's an excellent series of videos, almost like a little film - if you have time. It's interesting how many parallels there are in the history of Fable and Star Citizen right down to PM promising things during trade shows while the team back in Guildford were face-palming. Then there was the massive crunch to get the game finished which took a year. Roberts says he doesn't want to do the crunch, but I can't imagine that Fable would have ever seen light of day without it.
 
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I thought it was really good. Honestly, I much prefer this more candid Chris Roberts and there were a few things I had little idea about. I notice there were lots of SC fans in the comments claiming to feel "reassured" by it. Who knows? Maybe this is the start of CIG growing up a bit? Maybe they'll stop selling ships and maybe CR will stop talking endlessly about new features he just made up. Ok maybe not... I think I would be more forgiving if these were mistakes made by a private studio using investment funding rather than fan money. Big projects often have troubled development paths - but the fan touted line has always been that "Chris knows what he's doing" - "Take as much time as you need, get it right, don't rush". Maybe Star Citizen is a game for 2020 but he shouldn't have assumed that the backers of 2012 were thinking that far ahead.

Reading the article confirmed what most of us suspected. That Erin and the talent at Foundry 42 have been the most professional studio. It seems to be history repeating itself perhaps. There may be hope for SQ42 given the size of the team in Manchester, I suspect there efforts will eventually reap rewards if they stop being distracted with the pipe dream demos. My suspicion is SQ42 will release eventually as a fairly competent single player space adventure and the PU will be delivered to hard drives in many vertical slices for quite some time before we can fly off and actually start grinding a better ship without the use of a major real world credit-card.

I was watching Kim Justice's excellent series on The Rise and Fall of Peter Molyneux the other day. It's an excellent series of videos, almost like a little film - if you have time. It's interesting how many parallels there are in the history of Fable and Star Citizen right down to PM promising things during trade shows while the team back in Guildford were face-palming. Then there was the massive crunch to get the game finished which took a year. Roberts says he doesn't want to do the crunch, but I can't imagine that Fable would have ever seen light of day without it.

SQ42 is a SP game and its on PC only, that means risk of pirates. It's going to be interresting to see what it all will end up with.
 
We just don't understand managers :D

Big Boss - I want this metrics stuff on my iPhone.

Blue Eyed Boy - we can do that! Give me five minutes and a Team!

Project Manager - Wooo! I have a Project!

Business Analyst - Well there's no budget for it :(

Lawyer - It's going to break a whole heap of laws!

Security Analyst - We've already blocked that functionality due to the Bosses previous concerns!

Technical Analyst - Yeah, and I made it work!

Implementer - Why do I only earn minimum wage?

You forgot the...

User - "this isn't what I paid for"
 
We just don't understand managers :D

Big Boss - I want this metrics stuff on my iPhone.

Blue Eyed Boy - we can do that! Give me five minutes and a Team!

Project Manager - Wooo! I have a Project!

Business Analyst - Well there's no budget for it :(

Lawyer - It's going to break a whole heap of laws!

Security Analyst - We've already blocked that functionality due to the Bosses previous concerns!

Technical Analyst - Yeah, and I made it work!

Implementer - Why do I only earn minimum wage?

A customer walks into a bar. He asks for a beer made out of wine. The project manager agrees. Both question the bartender's competence.

...

Engineer: We can do solution X or we can do solution Y

Project Manager: Both and make it configurable!

...

Engineer: We can't do that Chris...

Chris Roberts: La La La I'm not listening. Stop telling me what I can't do. You don't have the right chemistry. Also you're fired because you just don't believe like me. I believe. That's why I'm a genius.

Engineer: Chris, I was just saying, you can't invite Siri to join the company. It's an iphone app not a real person.

Chris Roberts: Not listening. Chemistry not ...working ...you're invading my belief space..

..

Ba-da-boom I'm here all week...
 
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I wonder what it will be like in the office on Monday.

Chris walking around with a scowl thinking these bar stewards are passively aggressively mocking me!

The poor overworked bar stewards are thinking hah - they're onto you pal!


 
You forgot the...

User - "this isn't what I paid for"
Worth saying twice.

It was fascinating watching reddit's reaction to the guy who got the early copy of No Man's Sky and posted what was, effectively, a damning review if only by the volume of apparently missing content (he did say he was enjoying it anyway) - the level of commit there has been much lower both in terms of how long the fantasies went on and how much money was involved and people went pretty ballistic.

The core faithful might be overjoyed with one system and a few mechanics but the general public?

How will trade work with only one system? Or exploration? It's going to be interesting to see if there's any way they can make it more than a short flurry of activity for those who don't want to engage in the current idea of SC fun/japes. With all the work being done on Sq42 is there any hope for the thousands of missions you'd need to keep people busy when they're voiced and scripted? How can the SC 'verse link up at all with the end of Sq42 when there's still two parts to release?

I foresee a very messy MVP launch even if they keep pushing this softlaunch to prepare folk it's going to seem so small for so many millions.
 
Especially when many of the same people always bash ED for being bare and boring. When pointing out that ED never was planned to be feature complete, we get the SC will be much better . And here we are!
 
Having read the article, both E: D and SC made mistakes. Roberts is right that E: D went for a "bare bones" approach, and could have done with another year in the oven. SC made the mistake of promising the Earth, Moon and Stars, but not having any form of real plan as to how to deliver those until a lot of money had already been spent. Two wrongs don't really make any form of right, but at least E: D has been playable for over a year, and SC now seems to be making real progress.
 
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