The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Lobstris]

It would be awesome, unfortunately it would also annoy so many of the current players who find combat too difficult. Sadly you can't please everyone and I think FD are happy with the status quo for their scanning, KWS, "honking" et al.

You are probably correct, however I maintain that it would give those players a mechanism for avoiding combat by 'flying steathily' and concentrating on stealth builds (clean drives etc).

Are such things really 'too difficult' or 'annoying'? They've been staples of military-fight sims, or fleet command 'Harpoon-esque' games since the '80s?

 

[Lobstris]

I personally think that current way scanning works in ED is solid. It is not very good, or great, but solid. FD has doors open for letting to use more knowledge based gameplay if there are systems or corners of systems where current automatic scan just doesn't work. However having EVERY scan to work like this is nonsense. These aren't hard core space sims and even there it wouldn't make engaging gameplay.

I don't think it's all that 'hardcore' adding in a bit more subtlety to the system - even just another level of 'indirection'. There's a difference between knowing vaguely that something is in a volume of space passively (as per current Elite's distant targets'), having the computer actively lock and process a number of somethings (know range and velocity (RWS) ), and actively tracking an object to engage (TWS/Dogfight modes).

I however think FD will do upgrades for scanners in future. They have expressed interest in 'lose lock' feature we have in CQC to be found in main game. Would add additional layer where some knowledge based gameplay can be plugged in.

Which is where different 'volume cones' or 'frustums' for allowable locks come in with different modes. This, to me, is all still in 'sim lite' or 'survey sim' territory. It's still not DCS, or Falcon 4.

Also people who complain about supercruise not being engaging most likely moan about traveling in other open world games and MMOs. Some people just don't like it. Problem is that ED don't and won't have shortcuts. Since 2.1 signal sources, and 2.2 will introduce peristent POIs - I think supercruise will be awesome (along the fact it allows us to enjoy sense of scale, enjoy nice vistas, have interdictions done, etc. etc. etc.)

Flight sims score over Elite, or Star: Citizen because of interactions (or avoiding interactions) with terrain and objects on the terrain (e.g. AAA/SAMs & Radar). We also need more objects interacting with supercruise gameplay. Anyway, now I'm talking too much about E: D and OT about Star Citizen.

 

[frostypaw]

We also need more objects interacting with supercruise gameplay. Anyway, now I'm talking too much about E: D and OT about Star Citizen.

Easy segue though - I have no idea how there will be interactions in Quantum Drive or the like yet that I know of - maybe one of the more dedicated can point me to the relevant place. Do we spend our 40 mins travel across each system doing high jinks?

 

[FuriousMeow]

That's right everybody I like the engineers stuff.

I like the engineers stuff too. The only thing I have a gripe with is the need to have a cargo hold to get some stuff modified because you have to carry "physical" items unlike the materials which don't need cargo space. So that essentially means I have to replace one of my essential parts on my ship to get a cargo hold to go hunting for these pieces for some modifications which weakens my ship. That is a bit annoying, I shouldn't have to change my ship build to be able to have access to all modifications - that I feel is a huge weak point in their decision to introduce Engineers. Or at least let all ships have a default cargo space of 1 unit or 2 that is not a modular piece to account for space in the cockpit or "pilot/crew quarters" to temporarily store one or two things and if it isn't "used" or "sold" in a certain amount of time it gets removed to account for a crew member not appreciating his quarters being used as storage (or something like that).

 

[Stigbob]

I like the engineers stuff too. The only thing I have a gripe with is the need to have a cargo hold to get some stuff modified because you have to carry "physical" items unlike the materials which don't need cargo space. So that essentially means I have to replace one of my essential parts on my ship to get a cargo hold to go hunting for these pieces for some modifications which weakens my ship. That is a bit annoying, I shouldn't have to change my ship build to be able to have access to all modifications - that I feel is a huge weak point in their decision to introduce Engineers. Or at least let all ships have a default cargo space of 1 unit or 2 that is not a modular piece to account for space in the cockpit or "pilot/crew quarters" to temporarily store one or two things and if it isn't "used" or "sold" in a certain amount of time it gets removed to account for a crew member not appreciating his quarters being used as storage (or something like that).

My fuel scoop or the SRV are the first things to go for cargo depends on the range of the run, you can save yourself a lot of effort by searching Inara for locations that sell engineer commodities rather than get them through missions. Even in an FDL it's never a long haul (with a range modded FSD anyway).

Low mission spawn for some otherwise unavailable stuff can be a drag, but I just do bounty hunting, combat missions and assassinations until the right mission turns up at random when I'm repairing and reloading. Sitting in a station switching modes and cursing the RNG mission spawn is a self inflicted problem I think (like the dreaded grind).

I think we are getting commodity storage with the next patch so hopefully it'll soon be a non issue anyway.

 

[McGlashan]

My fuel scoop or the SRV are the first things to go for cargo depends on the range of the run, you can save yourself a lot of effort by searching Inara for locations that sell engineer commodities rather than get them through missions. Even in an FDL it's never a long haul (with a range modded FSD anyway).

Low mission spawn for some otherwise unavailable stuff can be a drag, but I just do bounty hunting, combat missions and assassinations until the right mission turns up at random when I'm repairing and reloading. Sitting in a station switching modes and cursing the RNG mission spawn is a self inflicted problem I think (like the dreaded grind).

I wouldn't let Frontier off the hook entirely, because if the in-game mechanics weren't so heavily reliant on RNG and grind, or if there were better in-game alternatives, then there wouldn't be any need for third party tools like Inara.
And if there's one positive thing about the golf swing scanner, it's that at least it's better than the engineers mod slot machine.

 

[Stigbob]

I wouldn't let Frontier off the hook entirely, because if the in-game mechanics weren't so heavily reliant on RNG and grind, or if there were better in-game alternatives, then there wouldn't be any need for third party tools like Inara.
And if there's one positive thing about the golf swing scanner, it's that at least it's better than the engineers mod slot machine.

I said that Inara is an easy option I didn't say I either need or use it, I use bookmarks in the galaxy map for things I want to remember (prior to bookmarks I used a notebook and pen).

Games especially sandboxes need a large random element, the alternative is extremely boring repetitive sandboxes. If the engineers has specific outcomes for things everyone would be running about with the same min-maxers loadout, boring boring boring. Variety (randomisation) is the spice of life (and games).

Moaning about doing advanced in-game second season engineers stuff is worlds ahead of the lonely golfswing radar thing SC has on offer though.

 

[Sydivision77]

I said that Inara is an easy option I didn't say I either need or use it, I use bookmarks in the galaxy map for things I want to remember (prior to bookmarks I used a notebook and pen).

Games especially sandboxes need a large random element, the alternative is extremely boring repetitive sandboxes. If the engineers has specific outcomes for things everyone would be running about with the same min-maxers loadout, boring boring boring. Variety (randomisation) is the spice of life (and games).

Moaning about doing advanced in-game second season engineers stuff is worlds ahead of the lonely golfswing radar thing SC has on offer though.

Star Citizen: Swing Commander


with thanks to P 'Angry' Gabz

 

[Soliluna]

I wouldn't let Frontier off the hook entirely, because if the in-game mechanics weren't so heavily reliant on RNG and grind, or if there were better in-game alternatives, then there wouldn't be any need for third party tools like Inara.
And if there's one positive thing about the golf swing scanner, it's that at least it's better than the engineers mod slot machine.

Disagree, no heavy reliant on RNG and grind. Pick up and play when you want, put down when want. Don't force yourself to do things for the sake of progressing pixels, it's unhealthy and unnecessary.

 

[McGlashan]

Disagree, no heavy reliant on RNG and grind. Pick up and play when you want, put down when want. Don't force yourself to do things for the sake of progressing pixels, it's unhealthy and unnecessary.

And that's why I don't bother with the engineers at all. But that content is clearly reliant on RNG, saying you don't have to force yourself to do it doesn't change that, and the need for external tools to make the process less tedious highlights some big gaps in the in-game mechanics. I don't even mind the material collection part, it's the fact that once you've met those requirements it's still a random slot-machine with regard to the quality of the mod, doubling down on the RNG, that I find inexcusably unimaginative. Even a golf swing QTE is a step up from pressing a button and crossing your fingers.

 

[Mu77ley]

What need for external tools? Seriously! I've never seen the need for them, and have never used one!

 

[Ozram]

And that's why I don't bother with the engineers at all. But that content is clearly reliant on RNG, saying you don't have to force yourself to do it doesn't change that, and the need for external tools to make the process less tedious highlights some big gaps in the in-game mechanics. I don't even mind the material collection part, it's the fact that once you've met those requirements it's still a random slot-machine with regard to the quality of the mod, doubling down on the RNG, that I find inexcusably unimaginative. Even a golf swing QTE is a step up from pressing a button and crossing your fingers.

All interesting stuff, but you are comparing mechanics in a game which exists now to theoretical mechanics in a game which does not. That's edging on off topic, no?

 

[Stigbob]

And that's why I don't bother with the engineers at all. But that content is clearly reliant on RNG, saying you don't have to force yourself to do it doesn't change that, and the need for external tools to make the process less tedious highlights some big gaps in the in-game mechanics. I don't even mind the material collection part, it's the fact that once you've met those requirements it's still a random slot-machine with regard to the quality of the mod, doubling down on the RNG, that I find inexcusably unimaginative. Even a golf swing QTE is a step up from pressing a button and crossing your fingers.

The unimaginative bit is where you repeat the same actions over and over and over again. I have a look at what mods are on offer and then usually I stick with the first result, except with cheap low level ones. I spend influence to add experimental effects for example with McQuinn I hand in alliance bounty vouchers, its not a drawn out process. A couple of percent here and there isn't a big deal, don't worry about it go with whatever you get it's still an upgrade.

It's the experimental effects that make the difference to performance and they can be applied to any old result.

If you choose to keep at it until you get the best possible outcome you really only have yourself to blame when it feels like a grind.

 

[FuriousMeow]

Has anyone seen this thread before? http://www.escapistmagazine.com/for...anboy-based-community-I-have-ever-seen?page=1

Check out the Star Citizen Base thread the poster linked to, and the Reddit thread is pretty amazing too. Just the shear mention of Derek Smart sets these mensa candidates off. Our good buddy Hi-Ban also called us out there labeling us as toxic since we don't fawn over a terrible tech demo and realize it is not going to be anything close to what has been stated, and he created the account solely to post that which is incredibly culty.

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If you choose to keep at it until you get the best possible outcome you really only have yourself to blame when it feels like a grind.

Yeah, I've only re-done a mod two or three times trying to get a better result. It only happened once, and the other times it seemed to get worse than if I had just stuck with the first "roll." I also do appreciate that there are variables to the mod that some are slightly better bonuses than others or less negative effects than others.

 

[Hi-Ban]

Our good buddy Hi-Ban also called us out there labeling us as toxic since we don't fawn over a terrible tech demo and realize it is not going to be anything close to what has been stated.

Lol, about 2 days without posting here and you already came up with such a low quality bait?
Was it a boring weekend on this thread, maybe? I'm glad to see you miss me so much.

 

[frostypaw]

Yeah, I've only re-done a mod two or three times trying to get a better result. It only happened once, and the other times it seemed to get worse than if I had just stuck with the first "roll." I also do appreciate that there are variables to the mod that some are slightly better bonuses than others or less negative effects than others.

Really don't want to get into that here as there's so many thread already - but the mode of thinking that gets people "grinding" to keep repeating it until they get the best result will exist in SC too and it'll be interesting to see how they deal with it to keep the currency meaningful

 

[Asp Explorer]

Don't want to grind?

Buy an Idris!

 

[FuriousMeow]

Lol, about 2 days without posting here and you already came up with such a low quality bait?
Was it a boring weekend on this thread, maybe? I'm glad to see you miss me so much.

Had a fantastic weekend actually, nice that you notice my schedule too. Fact is I was googling star citizen and that popped up so I read it. I actually edited by most to add that thing about you in there because I didn't see it until I got to the end and was only interested in that there are other places pointing out how toxic the SC community is. Kind of funny how you have to go about defending the good word of CR on other web sites and trying to make people that post in this thread look toxic when the only thing that happens is the pie in the sky ideology of the cult is smacked back down to earth simply by showing how sad of a tech demo it currently is, all of the previous "demos" and "previews" that are still not in game, and a flotilla of other major issues with SC and CR.

 

[Hi-Ban]

Had a fantastic weekend actually, nice that you notice my schedule too. Fact is I was googling star citizen and that popped up so I read it. I actually edited by most to add that thing about you in there because I didn't see it until I got to the end and was only interested in that there are other places pointing out how toxic the SC community is. Kind of funny how you have to go about defending the good word of CR on other web sites and trying to make people that post in this thread look toxic when the only thing that happens is the pie in the sky ideology of the cult is smacked back down to earth simply by showing how sad of a tech demo it currently is, all of the previous "demos" and "previews" that are still not in game, and a flotilla of other major issues with SC and CR.

Oh wait... didn't i say i wouldn't bite your bait? I'll say it now then: I won't bite, your effort is a nice gesture, but it's futile.

 

[Artemus]

Oh wait... didn't i say i wouldn't bite your bait? I'll say it now then: I won't bite, your effort is a nice gesture, but it's futile.

Err.. you did bite by replying. Why don't both of you just ignore each other and move on?

Getting back on topic of SC. Anyone want to play?