The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Marak]

Oh, in that case I better go delete some videos on my Youtube account...

Videos showing the sights and general awesomeness of ED (or any game) are fine. Videos of someone standing in front of a camera saying stuff about "what this game means to me" are a bit... cringeworthy?

 

[briguy168]

You have no idea how long it took me to record those 43 seconds. I think I saw a promo for it from Noobifier's youtube channel like around 6 or 7pm at night and didn't get something up until 9pm-ish. First time I actually read from a script (I tried to not be too over the top).....ain't winning any Oscar awards anytime soon though! [haha]

I'd probably do the same thing for Frontier if they did something like this.

 

[Marak]

Anyone got any thoughts on how all this will play out?

I think the little ships will be the target early on - everyone wants a fight they can win. But you're right, the first few weeks are going to be.. erm... emotional.

I'll be there though, desperately spamming in chat "How the      do I get in my Aurora?"

 

[FuriousMeow]

Videos showing the sights and general awesomeness of ED (or any game) are fine. Videos of someone standing in front of a camera saying stuff about "what this game means to me" are a bit... cringeworthy?

Incredibly cringeworthy at the least. I really don't have any videos, well I do but they were to show what I think is a bug to the dev team.

 

[szopin]

Heres a example where guy tells us how future scientist's will use star citizen for space travel research and thats why star citizen is great [???]

I think a phd dissertation on star formation theories using ED as an example result of tweaking the theory/math to fit observations is not out of the question. If DB went deeper into explaining their Stellar Forge technology and equations behind it (now with plate tectonics! glass volcanoes anyone? no wiki page for those, yet! Should be findable in beta right now) few students could either work on polishing/improving it, or exploring results, for free, or for the betterment of engine/humanity

 

[Stigbob]

Serious question time, something that has been on my mind.

Anyone got any thoughts on how all this will play out?

I honestly don't think CiG have ever thought that far ahead, and I suspect they'll never need to. An easy fix (that would wreck multicrew) would be to borrow FD's 3 mode approach, although it would anger the pvp purists.

Another thing that simply can't work is exploration, with only 100 systems at start and thousands of players per system how long before absolutely everything is found ?. Those dedicated exploration ships are not looking like a sound investment.

 

[jcrg99]

Serious question time, something that has been on my mind.

Project your mind forward a few years (or however long) to the point where Star Citizen PU 1.0 is released. Don't worry about whether it will be an MVP or even with everything that was promised in kickstarter right down to working toilets where after going you can see a little bit of doo doo floating in the toilet water (because fidelity!)

Now, on this magic day, there are presumably going to be literally thousands upon thousands of players logging in. Now, let us assume the networking and servers remain stable and things work as hoped.

So, first off, and first question. Will people start at a relatively limited number of locations/bases? Or will the be spread around the 100+ systems?

Ok, let's assume the most spread out possible, so, perhaps a few thousand possible start locations? And evenly spread?

Now, that's going to be a lot of players in each instance right.

Second question: SC will use instancing to resolve networking issues with too many players in a single area? Or... they are hoping to get it so that potentially thousands of players can all be in the same instance?

Moving forward, loads of people on each station regardless. Some people, especially the whales, will already have got crew selected. With so many people....

Third question... if instancing, how will it ensure the whale and his crew will all be in the same instance? Will the whale even be able to launch his ship?

Which leads me now onto perhaps the main point. We have thousands of people at each station. Some of those with basic ships, some with bigger ships they bought. Those with cheap starter ships will probably be thinking "I'll have that!" and perhaps a group will band together to take a ship, perhaps multiple groups, each trying to steal the big ships.

Fourth question: How much of a mess is it going to be? The big ships are going to be prime targets for everyone. They will be totally mobbed won't they?

Ok, so, a person or group steals a ship, whale feeling a little annoyed by this turn of events.... but ok, they have lifetime insurance right? They summon in a replacement... only for that one to get mobbed as well. Or maybe they get off this time, only to be pounded upon by dozens of players in smaller ships who just want to take out the big guy.

How many times will their ships be boarded and stolen? What happens if while playing some of their crew log off? Leaving them less effective... or possibly not even able to fly?

If stolen, how many copies of the whale's ship is going to be flying around?

Meanwhile, assuming the whale (or whales) finally took off, what does the station look like? Erm... fifith or sixth question now? Is this going to look like a FPS deathmatch? Or will people be calling their ships and blowing each other to bits as they undock?

Anyone got any thoughts on how all this will play out?

1-) People are supposed to start spreaded in the galaxy, whatever be the size of it.

2-) 3-) Don't worry with instances and number of players. Millions of playes will be able to play and battle each other, command the squadrons to defend their capital ships in their bridges, etc. Watch the Gamescon demos that will prove all that. LoL
They have been building Orgs after all, right? And selling expensive capital ships, etc... They wouldn't do all that for nothing. Just for fun. Of course they wouldn't do that if didn't have figure out everything. Because otherwise, it would be a sort of scam, right? You know... The magic Germans are working in an groundbreaking new tech that will set the future of gaming, not just Star Citizen.

4-) 5-) 6-) .... This project is and CR and co. know that and are making money while the illusion that something great is coming can be kept.

 

[Marak]

I think a phd dissertation on star formation theories using ED as an example result of tweaking the theory/math to fit observations is not out of the question. If DB went deeper into explaining their Stellar Forge technology and equations behind it (now with plate tectonics! glass volcanoes anyone? no wiki page for those, yet! Should be findable in beta right now) few students could either work on polishing/improving it, or exploring results, for free, or for the better of engine/humanity

This is something I would love to see. I think FD's Stellar Forge is the most awesome part of this game and I'd love to know more about it.

I mean, this is a simulation of the        ' GALAXY, and it's believable and it works. I may be wrong, but I think it's even predicted some earth like worlds before NASA even found them!

I would have happily paid £40 just for this, with a roving camera. The shooty stuff is a bonus though


*edit* I thought I could say        '

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Anyone got any thoughts on how all this will play out?

it will take them about 2 years to sort and balance this out and get base gameplay in reasonably stable manner. They are still have instancing - despite having client/server system - and getting everyone into same instance will be tricky. Despite what they might want for ideal goal - 1000 players sound impossible considering amount of data will be pushed around and ship speeds - there will be some peer to peer usage, which will introduce problems as well.

And that is before we talk about gameplay issues - like outrage of disconnecting player, stealing his ship and stuff - how they gonna solve it?

More I think more I don't think they will be able to do it, at least not for MVP/1.0 anyway.

 

[briguy168]

Serious question time, something that has been on my mind.

Project your mind forward a few years (or however long) to the point where Star Citizen PU 1.0 is released. Don't worry about whether it will be an MVP or even with everything that was promised in kickstarter right down to working toilets where after going you can see a little bit of doo doo floating in the toilet water (because fidelity!)

Now, on this magic day, there are presumably going to be literally thousands upon thousands of players logging in. Now, let us assume the networking and servers remain stable and things work as hoped.

So, first off, and first question. Will people start at a relatively limited number of locations/bases? Or will the be spread around the 100+ systems?

Ok, let's assume the most spread out possible, so, perhaps a few thousand possible start locations? And evenly spread?

Now, that's going to be a lot of players in each instance right.

Second question: SC will use instancing to resolve networking issues with too many players in a single area? Or... they are hoping to get it so that potentially thousands of players can all be in the same instance?

Moving forward, loads of people on each station regardless. Some people, especially the whales, will already have got crew selected. With so many people....

Third question... if instancing, how will it ensure the whale and his crew will all be in the same instance? Will the whale even be able to launch his ship?

Which leads me now onto perhaps the main point. We have thousands of people at each station. Some of those with basic ships, some with bigger ships they bought. Those with cheap starter ships will probably be thinking "I'll have that!" and perhaps a group will band together to take a ship, perhaps multiple groups, each trying to steal the big ships.

Fourth question: How much of a mess is it going to be? The big ships are going to be prime targets for everyone. They will be totally mobbed won't they?

Ok, so, a person or group steals a ship, whale feeling a little annoyed by this turn of events.... but ok, they have lifetime insurance right? They summon in a replacement... only for that one to get mobbed as well. Or maybe they get off this time, only to be pounded upon by dozens of players in smaller ships who just want to take out the big guy.

How many times will their ships be boarded and stolen? What happens if while playing some of their crew log off? Leaving them less effective... or possibly not even able to fly?

If stolen, how many copies of the whale's ship is going to be flying around?

Meanwhile, assuming the whale (or whales) finally took off, what does the station look like? Erm... fifith or sixth question now? Is this going to look like a FPS deathmatch? Or will people be calling their ships and blowing each other to bits as they undock?

Anyone got any thoughts on how all this will play out?

First question: This is old information but it was said that backers would be able to select where their first hangar will be and then you would spawn into the game.

Second question: According to the information that I have, it will be a mix of server meshes and singular instances. AFAIK, the design is to allow up to 1,000 players "per instance" with players and points of interest (other players) dynamically moving between other instances.

Third question: AFAIK, each ship will have their own instance (especially the bigger ships like the Javelin or the Idris) but I honestly don't know how it will actually work.

Fourth question: AFAIK, ships will have security systems in place to slow down potential thieves. These thieves could brute force their way in by blowing certain access points. Most expensive ships will have LTi so if that happens, although you would have to wait a while, you would have to wait for a replacement, buy/rent another ship or go ride the space lanes to your hangar to get another ship (if you own multiples).

I'm sure big ships will be the big prize early but I think that will subside once people understand that it will take a lot of resources to both operate and crew these things (if that is their endgame). Honestly if I keep on getting ganked while I'm playing with one of my bigger ships, I'll dock it somewhere and play with a smaller more discrete ship.

AFAIK, Everything from a Javelin down won't be persistent so if a player logs off, the ship "warps" to the nearest safe dock or something like that.

 

[szopin]

This is something I would love to see. I think FD's Stellar Forge is the most awesome part of this game and I'd love to know more about it.

I mean, this is a simulation of the ' GALAXY, and it's believable and it works. I may be wrong, but I think it's even predicted some earth like worlds before NASA even found them!

I would have happily paid £40 just for this, with a roving camera. The shooty stuff is a bonus though

Last 'Elite got right before science' was a planet around a close binary star, can't remember right now, but this wasn't stellar forge, as it was introduced in the second or third elite game But yeah, going open source on their models would be lovely, more eyes/scrutiny, where did they make shortcuts, how to overcome them, opening it up to the scientific community would benefit all, unless that would mean having to open source whole Cobra, then again not sure they depend on the licensing deals of it, or a contender in 'simulate a galaxy' genre is coming anytime soon

 

[Ian Skippy]

So, first off, and first question. Will people start at a relatively limited number of locations/bases? Or will the be spread around the 100+ systems?

Ok, let's assume the most spread out possible, so, perhaps a few thousand possible start locations? And evenly spread?

Now, that's going to be a lot of players in each instance right.

Second question: SC will use instancing to resolve networking issues with too many players in a single area? Or... they are hoping to get it so that potentially thousands of players can all be in the same instance?

Spread across. Currently it is *hoped* that 1.0 will have 'multiple systems'. Forget about the 100+ talk. There will be one or two dozen start locations. So yes, that means there will tens of thousands of people per location. Obviously that wont work (despite Chris' claims about his 'amazing germans using the cloud to have thousands of people in the same instance'). It'll most likely be somewhat like ED from the players' perspective.

Third question... if instancing, how will it ensure the whale and his crew will all be in the same instance? Will the whale even be able to launch his ship?

Which leads me now onto perhaps the main point. We have thousands of people at each station. Some of those with basic ships, some with bigger ships they bought. Those with cheap starter ships will probably be thinking "I'll have that!" and perhaps a group will band together to take a ship, perhaps multiple groups, each trying to steal the big ships.

Fourth question: How much of a mess is it going to be? The big ships are going to be prime targets for everyone. They will be totally mobbed won't they?

Ok, so, a person or group steals a ship, whale feeling a little annoyed by this turn of events.... but ok, they have lifetime insurance right? They summon in a replacement... only for that one to get mobbed as well. Or maybe they get off this time, only to be pounded upon by dozens of players in smaller ships who just want to take out the big guy.

How many times will their ships be boarded and stolen? What happens if while playing some of their crew log off? Leaving them less effective... or possibly not even able to fly?

If stolen, how many copies of the whale's ship is going to be flying around?

Meanwhile, assuming the whale (or whales) finally took off, what does the station look like? Erm... fifith or sixth question now? Is this going to look like a FPS deathmatch? Or will people be calling their ships and blowing each other to bits as they undock?

Anyone got any thoughts on how all this will play out?

Currently, if the Idris would be in-game, it would be very hard to fully crew it under current instance limitations. Forget about using such a ship for what it is supposed to be used for. There is nothing known about 'stealing' mechanics. Its very difficult to design such mechanics, and as with most things, the more you reveal the more you'll annoy people. The more you let people dream, the happier people are. It is currently unknown if the 'pvp slider' they discussed will be in the game, and if so, how it'll work, and how its balanced to people in 'open'.

You touched exactly on what I see as the biggest problem: complete uncertainty about what SC is supposed to become.

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Fourth question: AFAIK, ships will have security systems in place to slow down potential thieves. These thieves could brute force their way in by blowing certain access points. Most expensive ships will have LTi so if that happens, although you would have to wait a while, you would have to wait for a replacement, buy/rent another ship or go ride the space lanes to your hangar to get another ship (if you own multiples).

I'm sure big ships will be the big prize early but I think that will subside once people understand that it will take a lot of resources to both operate and crew these things (if that is their endgame). Honestly if I keep on getting ganked while I'm playing with one of my bigger ships, I'll dock it somewhere and play with a smaller more discrete ship.

AFAIK, Everything from a Javelin down won't be persistent so if a player logs off, the ship "warps" to the nearest safe dock or something like that.

Which means that anyone with a LTI ship can 'clone' as many as they want by letting friends 'steal' as many as needed...

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

As for "SC dream game" videos they started right at first Kickstarter in 2012, so it is not really a new thing. People seem to be open to fantasize about what SC could be without caring much will it ever become reality. In that way Chris Roberts has been superb salesman. With time however it has become more ironic than interesting.

I do love read people role playing for ED, so I will most likely enjoy people doing same for SC. However so far what I have heard is so full of superiority complex that...really feels more of some sort of measurement context than living your space sci-fi fantasy.

 

[Marak]

Which means that anyone with a LTI ship can 'clone' as many as they want by letting friends 'steal' as many as needed...

Shush - don't tell them that! I'm hoping to make enough to buy an Idris before they patch stuff!

 

[briguy168]

I do believe that the initial pvp slider has gone away. I think they're more in favor of the EVE system where core systems will be safe and progressively get less safe the farther away you are. I'm sure there will be nullsec places peppered inside the core systems too. So essentially the pvp slider turned into a logical slider in which the farther you go out the more likely you will encounter another player for open pvp.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Last 'Elite got right before science' was a planet around a close binary star, can't remember right now, but this wasn't stellar forge, as it was introduced in the second or third elite game But yeah, going open source on their models would be lovely, more eyes/scrutiny, where did they make shortcuts, how to overcome them, opening it up to the scientific community would benefit all, unless that would mean having to open source whole Cobra, then again not sure they depend on the licensing deals of it, or a contender in 'simulate a galaxy' genre is coming anytime soon

I don't think Stellar Forge has anything to do with Cobra. It is separate simulation written by FD (they hired few people just for this purpose), and result is complex web of seeds and overrides which has been fed into client then. I believe they could open source it - at least scientific part of simulation - but I suspect there are some open source projects covering this ground already. I wouldn't rule out FD publishing raw algorithm at some point in future.

 

[szopin]

I don't think Stellar Forge has anything to do with Cobra. It is separate simulation written by FD (they hired few people just for this purpose), and result is complex web of seeds and overrides which has been fed into client then. I believe they could open source it - at least scientific part of simulation - but I suspect there are some open source projects covering this ground already. I wouldn't rule out FD publishing raw algorithm at some point in future.

It's tied to it quite hard (most of it runs on client, open galaxy map, zoom out, zoom somewhere, your connection doesn't spike like crazy), not really sure what scientists could look for in SC 100 systems though to learn about future of space faring. All the very realistic promises are dropping silently all over the place (oxygen/atmosphere/vacuum simulation? orbital mechanics? super advanced thrusters simulation? fish tank AI even...). Once it gets to releasing anything it is either insta loaded like cargo, or press and hold minigame like scanning, old theories die fast

 

[Tuub t Tute]

I do believe that the initial pvp slider has gone away. I think they're more in favor of the EVE system where core systems will be safe and progressively get less safe the farther away you are. I'm sure there will be nullsec places peppered inside the core systems too. So essentially the pvp slider turned into a logical slider in which the farther you go out the more likely you will encounter another player for open pvp.

If the MVP optimistically launches with 5 systems, it isn't going to offer much of a grade scale on where to hide :/ Lave, Zaonce, Tionisla, Leesti, Orerre...

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Spread across. Currently it is *hoped* that 1.0 will have 'multiple systems'. Forget about the 100+ talk. There will be one or two dozen start locations. So yes, that means there will tens of thousands of people per location. Obviously that wont work (despite Chris' claims about his 'amazing germans using the cloud to have thousands of people in the same instance'). It'll most likely be somewhat like ED from the players' perspective.

Getting thousands of people in same instance is peanuts. It has been done and it can be done on server - issue is money. Update speed however is another topic completely, amount of traffic between server and client will reach unmanageable levels easily.

 

[szopin]

Getting thousands of people in same instance is peanuts. It has been done and it can be done on server - issue is money. Update speed however is another topic completely, amount of traffic between server and client will reach unmanageable levels easily.

Which is why current guiness world record is 1158 people in the same server instance (huge continent in PS2, easily 50-60 instances in normal understanding), if it were peanuts we'd be doing that in many games right now. Not even money helps, unless you pay for upgrading each client to 1gbit connection and have crazy NSA throughput