Are you ready to climb down from your lofty perch to answer my earlier question, or am I not worthy of your attention?
The Star Citizen Thread v5
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Are you ready to climb down from your lofty perch to answer my earlier question, or am I not worthy of your attention?
So do you think you've helped star citizen and the image of it's fans over the last few pages ?.
Ok - not a cult?
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/564ni9/letter_to_the_chairman/
You can understand, reading this ^^ the fanbase comes across as a bit... cultish?
*Edit - with all the "So say we all" chanting stuff...
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I know i am mean but i just putted what you said on a differen perspective...and it wasnt really any effort involved...
Edit Formating of the changes in the quote.
Disclaimer that quote was changed and is not what the person actually said.
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OTOH
Maybe everyone is just having a laugh - it doesn't necessarily have to be at you - you can even join in!
No.
There's bad management that's obviously bad management.
There's stuff that could either be bad management or deliberately dodgy.
There's stuff that's definitely dodgy.
EDIT: Clarity. "Definitely dodgy" = a deliberate scam.
ANOTHER EDIT: You also need to look at patterns and consistency. Is a particular bad practise a one-off or is it systemic? Also, how transparent is the other party? CIG are actually quite opaque in many ways. Yeah, you see the dev stuff, but that's basic. What about the massive, ongoing, mocapping? WHat about the milestones? What about basic financial openness to the people who's money they'reusing?
Got it?
Now, when a company does things that look like bad management but do it for a prolonged period then it starts to look deliberate.
Me? CIG got the benefit of the doubt on the honesty question (so, basically, aiming for something more then they're competent to do)... until I saw a recent interview with CR who mentioned that goals were linked to current income: here at 9:21 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvule1cD_zk. This implies that they now know that promises that they are yet to deliver were not deliverable when they said that they were (aka all doable at $65 million) which is dishonest.
Now, dishonest doesn't necessarily mean that they're scamming - aka taking money off you without providing what they promised - but it's a very bad sign. Very.
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So basically no changing direction, doubling down on messanging. Man, you are my true hero, we will remember you.
Also good warning sign - I kinda wanted to checkout CC streams. Now I know I really don't want to get depressed.
Here's something to get drinkers in the mood (better than SC stream, I swear)
Drunk Russians & tractors - AWESOME!
I like Russians, they don't give a poo about owt.
Pah - I'm now watching Snake Plissken - Escape from LA - set in the future in 2013.
Call me snake!
Any Squadron 42 release will flop badly due to already being sold to the entire audience.
Additionally just to correct the record, because people in this thread repeatedly claimed, that nobody believes this is a scam: I'm throughly convinced this is a scam and has been from the start of the crowdfunding. (I wasn't convinced from the beginning, so I was wrong in 2012 and learned from it.) The facts that lead to this conclusion is the stuff that happened already in late 2012 / early 2013, the entire "grey market" shenanigans and especially the whole damage control tactics, which happened since 2015. The reaction to the Escapist articles basically confirmed it for me and let me go for a refund ASAP. So that's my opinion.
Also, the whole ship sales/grey market is/was sketchy as hell. Seriously....
The difference being that Chris Roberts didn't attack or insult any group of people or any individual, nor he started a blog to attack any specific person. You know, a tiny detail that makes a big difference. But we are getting a bit offtopic here, i wont talk about that one who shall not be named, i dont want to risk a ban.
I see a guy showing respect and support to another person.
Of course, i could distort reality to the point of seeing it as cultish, but that would be distorting reality a bit too much.
Ok - I feel I'm doing a service here (taking one for the team?) so I dropped back into the stream.
We're now playing Arena Commando right now. Honestly, if the AI in ED were as brain dead as the opposition here, the FD forums would explode.
Also they're playing with a fighter with one wing shot off, and no changes to the flight characteristics. This is not what was advertised, yet AC is what?, 18 months old?
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It all depends on if you're on the inside looking out, or on the outside looking in
We're now playing Arena Commando right now. Honestly, if the AI in ED were as brain dead as the opposition here, the FD forums would explode.
Also they're playing with a fighter with one wing shot off, and no changes to the flight characteristics. This is not what was advertised, yet AC is what?, 18 months old?
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It all depends on if you're on the inside looking out, or on the outside looking in
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CR is incompetent alone on two things - his early estimates of *core* SC experience AND choosing of engine. Both things went terribly wrong. He was not ready to fulfill his promises, and that's beginning and end of it. If indie devs overreach in early access, we just shrug it off and take our business elsewhere.
And there's PR, marketing and how crowdfunding has been managed. You can argue there's nothing wrong with it, but long term perception these things have created with SC is highly problematic. I would say it is very incompetent as well.
Also this perception tells me that CR is just a guy with idea but don't know how this idea might be done properly. You can't argue that it is wrong perception, yet such perception exists. Haters? There's really no good reason to hate on SC or CIG, another than find everything annoying. Simply there are too many things that went wrong, CR has been too slow to understand how to deal with it, and this is what we have now. In any other business, where CR would have superiors to answer to, he would have been fired 1 year ago.
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It is all fun and games till you remember that this is code which they also have for SQ42 flying parts. Ohhh dear.
Btw, despite CIG claiming to have awesomballs AI middleware, NPCs are no show in any of public builds (SC Alpha 3.0 demo analysis video showed NPCs basically doesn't even more, just strafe....cannot unsee). Now I wonder why...
And there's PR, marketing and how crowdfunding has been managed. You can argue there's nothing wrong with it, but long term perception these things have created with SC is highly problematic. I would say it is very incompetent as well.
Also this perception tells me that CR is just a guy with idea but don't know how this idea might be done properly. You can't argue that it is wrong perception, yet such perception exists. Haters? There's really no good reason to hate on SC or CIG, another than find everything annoying. Simply there are too many things that went wrong, CR has been too slow to understand how to deal with it, and this is what we have now. In any other business, where CR would have superiors to answer to, he would have been fired 1 year ago.
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It is all fun and games till you remember that this is code which they also have for SQ42 flying parts. Ohhh dear.
Btw, despite CIG claiming to have awesomballs AI middleware, NPCs are no show in any of public builds (SC Alpha 3.0 demo analysis video showed NPCs basically doesn't even more, just strafe....cannot unsee). Now I wonder why...
Once they moved from trad single player to bleeding-edge multiplayer they should have called a timeout - in public, and I think that the community would have gone with it - and built their own engine.
Cryengine was (and is) not fit for purpose.
#1 Very solid point. They might sold 200 - 300k copies of SQ42 first episode, but that's about it. Where to get money to continue it? It will be interesting nevertheless; If reports from SQ42 would been for a movie, people would have written it off (reshoots? refactored script? changing artistic direction? RUN AWAY);
#2 I personally view Chris Roberts claims during KS as lies. He claimed he had been working for a game for more than year - he did not, he just worked for scripted demo in CryEngine without any resemblence of actual game with *actual* intent to show it and claim that it is already in-game - to gain more money. Maybe he found it valid way to get what he wants, but those were lies; It didn't get better afterwards, with Space Marine coming every two weeks;
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This. Basically when he figured out CryEngine won't do it - he could easily said that they will have to look for something better - and biggest irony is - community would have definitely gone with it. But for keeping pretense he kept lying. And this has been chronic issue with SC and SQ42. Unnecessary lies combined with shady and overblown marketing. Never admit you are wrong. Never back down. Maybe it is American thing, but it leaves sour taste in your mouth.
A few things. Trying to go from 0 to AAA *is* really difficult. In fact it's really, really difficult. I made this point myself several times in old threads when SC champions both here and on Reddit argued,when challenged, that the process creating such a game was relatively straightforward.
I pointed out Rockstar have massive amounts of experience in doing this yet still have significant problems to overcome. I said this because I know a dev on GTAV who told me about some of them and said the game couldn't be made for the money raised.
It required, as any game does, some highly skilled project management. More so in this case given 0 to AAA. So yes they can get a pass for some stuff because it was bound to go wrong, to some degree. All games waste money to some degree because it's hard to do.
That does not excuse all of Roberts' decisions. It's clear even with hindsight that some were pretty rank and that the project early on was really badly run because there was a lack of project management 101.
It's kind or cute to see SC backers come fully circle and say what others said a long time ago. Annoying, but cute.
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Agreed 100%. A savvy project lead would have said "Look, we've unexpectedly got all this extra money, let's ask them backers what they want - a limited but doable small scale version, or a time out and a delay, but something ultimately suited to the extra promises."
I still don't believe it would have been meeting all the promises, but it would have mitigated a whole load of wasted time and money.
I think a pass is in order if you're risking your own money.
But if you've taken millions from others based on /reckless promises then you'd better bloody deliver in full - you should have figured out it's difficult before you sold it.
(not aimed at you btw Barking_Mad)
I seem to remember they were confirmed as human-controlled characters, not NPCs.
The individuals with the real problems are the ones that keep coming back to this thread to obfuscate and deflect thinking that reality will change despite the overwhelming evidence that SC is in a completely bungled development process and the person steering that clown car has a history of mismanagement, incompetence, and cut down delivery from the over promising of an incredibly overactive imagination that clearly has lost any technical grounding they may once have had.
It's all excuses because SC is a borked up janky mess of a tech demo and can't stand on it's own.
For all this "open development" and praise by the cult, there sure are a LOT of QUESTIONS that shouldn't exist if this was the most open development out there.
I can actually point to open development of a great studio that is a small team but churning out awesome stuff light years ahead of the crap CR is turning out. However, I don't want the nut brigade catching wind of that team and deciding to go there and harass or shill so it's best left unsaid.
It's all excuses because SC is a borked up janky mess of a tech demo and can't stand on it's own.
For all this "open development" and praise by the cult, there sure are a LOT of QUESTIONS that shouldn't exist if this was the most open development out there.
I can actually point to open development of a great studio that is a small team but churning out awesome stuff light years ahead of the crap CR is turning out. However, I don't want the nut brigade catching wind of that team and deciding to go there and harass or shill so it's best left unsaid.
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