Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 9 - The Canonn

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This was something that I was wondering also about how XDeath was able to triangulate the position - given the small number of reference points, and not knowing the angle / viewpoint from which the image was taken, wouldn't there be multiple solutions to the problem?

Lots of possible solutions, but only one were matching the system properties that were visible in the trailer (Yellow main star, Ringed brown dwarf with twin planets orbiting close to each other). In addition, two of the triangulation points were nebula. Unlike stars they change size depending on distance. That makes it easier to determine distance.

This triangulation was not purely mathematical, like Wace's discovery of Col 70 Sector FY-N c21-3. This was more like a check list of criteria that lead to the right planet.
 

ah, now it is clear
Good work!
I'm trying another exotic method as on the picture below:

and I got the triple
221/60/4001 that is farest from the Sun.

The bad point of these coordinate extraction methods is that:
- X, Y, Z are not well defined
- sign of every coordinate is not defined at all.
- decimal points are not defined too.

I'm not expect to find anything on 221/60/4001 (and it is 4007.55 LY from sun!!!)
 
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This was something that I was wondering also about how XDeath was able to triangulate the position - given the small number of reference points, and not knowing the angle / viewpoint from which the image was taken, wouldn't there be multiple solutions to the problem?

Yes. We need the "distance/power" to the source from each position, aka signal time from source to each position. That defines the imperfect plane which have infinite solutions on the line perpendicular to that plane. We have to choose by setting some rule.
With a fourth position, that will result in one single solution ( given we know the speed and behavior of the type of signal in all space it traverses, which actually is impossible as time/distance goes to infinity, but short range approximate ). That way we know "exactly" where the source is, and do not need to guess.
 
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Yes. We need the "distance/power" to the source from each position, aka signal time from source to each position. That defines the imperfect plane which have infinite solutions on the line perpendicular to that plane. We have to choose by setting some rule.
With a fourth position, that will result in one single solution ( given we know the speed and behavior of the type of signal in all space it traverses, which actually is impossible as time/distance goes to infinity, but short range approximate ). That way we know "exactly" where the source is, and do not need to guess.

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Ok, so further thoughts are that you can't calculate a 3rd dimension from any number of (x,y) co-ords, but 3 sets of (x,y,z) is enough data for precision.
 
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Hello all!

Anyone know the first crashed alien ship crashed direction? I am at the second site and its crashed towards the california nebula. Maybe its nothing.
 

Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
Im interested by micheal brookes comments a few pages about the left of field jaques, perhaps that is a clue that there is something out there to be found as well or perhaps its a decoy but it wsa interesting nevertheless


He seemed to be responding to an earlier question in a non-clue dropping way - or was he ?! :) but I do wonder what made Jaques' massive jump stop there though - he was aiming for the other side of the galaxy after all. Clearly there is some kind of anomaly around Colonia to pull him out of his jump maybe the other end of whatever we have here at this end.


Can be read both ways. MB may have actually been implying that the location of Jaques in the first place had nothing to do with the mysteries. At least, he is saying that the decision to build a new bubble around Jaques is player driven and was not FD's original plan.

The story at the time was that Jaques misjump was caused by the fact that some players were UA Bombing Jaques at the time of the jump.

I believe he was simply clarifying the original question that I answered. That was, why is Jaques just staying there. I had given my thoughts as to why he would have taken a while to get going, but Michael just confirmed that they like the interaction with the community around building a new bubble and decided to run with it.
 
Hello all!

Anyone know the first crashed alien ship crashed direction? I am at the second site and its crashed towards the california nebula. Maybe its nothing.

It can be something but ships/bodies don't fall on planets in a straight trajectory.
 
This was something that I was wondering also about how XDeath was able to triangulate the position - given the small number of reference points, and not knowing the angle / viewpoint from which the image was taken, wouldn't there be multiple solutions to the problem?

I think Triangulation was a bit to strong of a word. What I did would loosely fit the definition of triangulation, it does imply I did a bit of math though.

There was no math, except eyeballing math. You need an understanding of how the Galaxy shifts as you jump systems.
"I need that star on the other side of Andromeda here. To get it there I should jump to this system here."

So it wasn't purely guesswork. There was a sort of logic involved, but no numbers whatsoever.
 
Can search area for a set of 3 known co-ords be calculated?

Yes, but is this really a signal triangulation? I am not into the game archaeology stuff yet so I have not enough background information to make an estimated method of approach.

If you only got 3 positions without any source signal, you can only guess what the "rule" for finding a fourth position may be. Unless some clue was given somewhere. The more data, the more accurate the method of approach will be.
Maybe we should use our ears in space, listen for the signal, if there is any.

We could guess that the perfect plane build from the 3 positions "is" the search area ( including the points and the borders ). Or, we can assume that the perpendicular "prism" constructed as a triangular cylinder in both directions is the search area.
Without a fourth position, there is just too many solutions. But we could start the search on and near the three positions, for any clues on how to progress further.

If we do have a signal, we can calculate the angular plane and therefore a more precise direction of the "prism"/triangular cylinder search area. If we know the speed and behavior of that type of signal we can also calculate distance to the source, which gives only two solutions, one on each side of the search plane. That is enough to actually find it, by just sending scout parties to both locations.

But the optimal situation is to find 'a' fourth position (as in 3 and 1 more ).

For realism, we actually need to do this in 4-space. Where we also take time into consideration. Stellar formations move around, swirls and does not keep their stellar patterns over thousands of years as many believe. Its more like a fluid motion ever changing. Therefore it is nearly impossible to actually do any "ancient triangulation", unless we know all the relative variables. We can come close, as we project and calculate the movement of our own planets in the Sol system, but it only takes one single stray big object from outer space, anywhere in time, to disrupt the predicted outcome. And we know space do provide those stray objects over time. See the signal as a beam of "light", it is afflicted by gravitational lensing, diffraction, refraction etc etc. Over time, a clear laser-signal would look more like background noise than any clear signal, also extremely weak and diluted by every other signal from the same direction over time.

For the purpose of the difficulty set by FD, I assume it is a plain linear logic in 3-space only. But maybe a simple linear time factor somewhere for increased difficulty, just not too difficult.
 
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Good afternoon. Please forgive me for my English. But approaching the wreckage of an alien spaceship ( HIP 17862 6 a c ), I found the wreckage of the earth ship, Anaconda ( 23,0293 : - 90,6527 ). Lying around the containers. Now, in the remains of the alien ship are the remains of human scarab. Isn't there a connection. Your photographs of the remnants of the scarab there.
 
Regarding Jaques - after the misjump there was a lot of player support for trying to make it a new human bubble. We thought that was a cool idea and are actively trying to support that goal.

Michael

And it was a cool idea, and it’s been awesome, so thanks for that Michael (and the Frontier team)!

I'm 95% sure that we can't activate the ruins.
It is much easier hide there a secret message than to make a light show.

Yeah, this has been on my mind regarding the ruins too. We have to think about this realistically, and even from a game developer frame of reference. We know there isn’t anything “under” the surface of these ruins just waiting to “open up” or anything, the only thing under it is a strange hidden clock thing doing God knows what. And truthfully programming some light show into the game reliant on very intensive game logic dependent on a whole lot of variables might not be probable from a coding point of view, so making the ruins do something based on stars outside of the planet instance sounds unlikely to me from a dev viewpoint.

No, I still believe the ruins are a (mostly) static puzzle that needs to be solved. The obelisks have meaning I’m sure, but I still feel like it’s a huge starmap meant to lead us to the next step of the puzzle. That rotating clock “device” underneath it though, yeah that’s not just there, it’s doing something. I wonder if we should really be focusing on figuring out what that “something” is….
 
This was something that I was wondering also about how XDeath was able to triangulate the position - given the small number of reference points, and not knowing the angle / viewpoint from which the image was taken, wouldn't there be multiple solutions to the problem?

Having a sky map you can't have multiple options - and the reference points in the trailer were strong enough.
I posted this at the start of the thread - http://i.imgur.com/LiQZErG.png - and it didn't take me long to get to http://i.imgur.com/TAHaxP5.png once you knew Pleiades turned blue in 2.2 patch.
That put the ruins in the Synuefe sector a bit off the Coalsack Nebula, anything else made the alignment not fit.
Then it was just a matter of fine-tuning the position by jumping between systems - each time locating the landmarks and checking distance/angle difference change.
So that plus having the luck of jumping into the right system (which xDeath thankfully had quite fast) was the "triangulation" here.
 
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Thought: has anyone mapped the sky as visible from the ruin's planet? Are there any groups of stars that could form a constellation of the shape mapped out by the beacons?
 
That rotating clock “device” underneath it though, yeah that’s not just there, it’s doing something. I wonder if we should really be focusing on figuring out what that “something” is….

There is a rotating clock device under the Ruins? What?!?! Why did I not know this?
 
There is a rotating clock device under the Ruins? What?!?! Why did I not know this?

Because there isn't. It's leftover geometry from creating the beacons that rotates with it. They didn't intend for part of the puzzle to be solved by clipping the debug cam through the ground people...
 
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