The Star Citizen Thread v5

[bitstorm]

Some really good engagement and points raised in discussion with Agony Aunt:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitize...do_some_people_not_like_the_idea_of_sc_being/

However, some Star Reddizens really went on the defensive.

The cynic in me says it's about accountability, on release they are accountable and the product has to stand. Before release, well it's still in development.

If SC had released I can't help feeling income would be less, people would be less likely to purchase ships with no delivery date, for a released product.


Could Frontier sell a skin in the shop that can't be used in game but could be at some as yet undetermined point in the future, when they make it? Nope.

If we were still in Kickstarter time, could Frontier put skins up in the shop that hadn't been done with a unspoken promise that they will be done for release? Sure!


If CIG could build a ship and put it right into Agony Aunt's proposed beta-game at the point it's announced, sure they could sell them then. But given the long queue of missing but purchased ships already, I almost feel they've backed themselves into a corner - where is this ship I paid for - why are you selling new ships when you haven't delivered on these ones from last year - and so on.

It's like you have all these backed up pipes, while no-one is living in the house you don't need to fix them, but as soon as someone moves in, well suddenly there's a lot of new work that can't be ignored.

Or to be even more cynical, but well it's true, the current model is about selling promises of products rather than products.

 

[Dementropy]

The cynic in me says it's about accountability, on release they are accountable and the product has to stand. Before release, well it's still in development.

If SC had released I can't help feeling income would be less, people would be less likely to purchase ships with no delivery date, for a released product.

If CIG could build a ship and put it into the proposed beta-game at the point it's announced, sure then they could sell them then. But given the long queue of missing but purchased ships already, I almost feel they've backed themselves into a corner - where is this ship I paid for - why are you selling new ships when you haven't delivered on these ones from last year - and so on.

It's like you have all these backed up pipes, while no-one is living in the house you don't need to fix them, but as soon as someone moves in, well suddenly there's a lot of new work that can't be ignored.

Perhaps I'm cynical, as well, because accountability is a big part of this - whether you look at CIG from the point of a developer or a group of people still seeking funding after reaching twice what they originally asked in order to deliver a game (or games, plural, if you're counting both SC and SQ42).

Ships are (costly) marketing. It's not like they are already in existence and can just be dropped into the game. The artwork is sold, and then they have to dedicate resources to designing functional ships.

And yes, they have backed themselves into a corner. They are extending engineering debt with every ship sale, meanwhile, the original game(s) and scope (even if we look at the current goals) are not even "in there." 2.6 is supposed to ameliorate flight and...other things, I guess. Who knows what 3.0 is supposed to be. In the end, they're arbitrary numbers, so if some modicum of improvement is made on flight, CIG can call that 2.6 and consider the job done. 3.0 is just lagniappe, in their eyes.

With the most recent TOS, CIG has the ability to call it a day whenever they feel they've "caught up" on their promises, label it the MVP, and walk away/sell the IP (if they can find a buyer with enough radiation shielding)/shrug and say, "It's already in there!," like they did with Star Marine many moons ago.

Yes, there needs to be accountability, and both Reddit and the RSI forums are raising this point. There will be damage control, but right now, those backers who are reaching their threshold are showing how much of a mess this whole thing really is, with no sign of an actual "game" in sight.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Perhaps I'm cynical, as well, because accountability is a big part of this - whether you look at CIG from the point of a developer or a group of people still seeking funding after reaching twice what they originally asked in order to deliver a game (or games, plural, if you're counting both SC and SQ42).

Ships are (costly) marketing. It's not like they are already in existence and can just be dropped into the game. The artwork is sold, and then they have to dedicate resources to designing functional ships.

And yes, they have backed themselves into a corner. They are extending engineering debt with every ship sale, meanwhile, the original game(s) and scope (even if we look at the current goals) are not even "in there." 2.6 is supposed to ameliorate flight and...other things, I guess. Who knows what 3.0 is supposed to be. In the end, they're arbitrary numbers, so if some modicum of improvement is made on flight, CIG can call that 2.6 and consider the job done. 3.0 is just lagniappe, in their eyes.

With the most recent TOS, CIG has the ability to call it a day whenever they feel they've "caught up" on their promises, label it the MVP, and walk away/sell the IP (if they can find a buyer with enough radiation shielding)/shrug and say, "It's already in there!," like they did with Star Marine many moons ago.

Yes, there needs to be accountability, and both Reddit and the RSI forums are raising this point. There will be damage control, but right now, those backers who are reaching their threshold are showing how much of a mess this whole thing really is, with no sign of an actual "game" in sight.

Actually, they made a pretty big promise for 2.6: Star Marine would finally arrive. It was supposed to arrive months ago, and before that, years ago. But now its supposed to really come. For real. As in really real.

Rumour has it they dropped it because there are issues they cannot fix in short-term. That would mean 2.6 would essentially be 2.5.3 or something with just the new FM.

 

[Knightshark]

Some really good engagement and points raised in discussion with Agony Aunt:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitize...do_some_people_not_like_the_idea_of_sc_being/

However, some Star Reddizens really went on the defensive.

The cynic in me says it's about accountability, on release they are accountable and the product has to stand. Before release, well it's still in development.

If SC had released I can't help feeling income would be less, people would be less likely to purchase ships with no delivery date, for a released product.


Could Frontier sell a skin in the shop that can't be used in game but could be at some as yet undetermined point in the future, when they make it? Nope.

If we were still in Kickstarter time, could Frontier put skins up in the shop that hadn't been done with a unspoken promise that they will be done for release? Sure!


If CIG could build a ship and put it right into Agony Aunt's proposed beta-game at the point it's announced, sure they could sell them then. But given the long queue of missing but purchased ships already, I almost feel they've backed themselves into a corner - where is this ship I paid for - why are you selling new ships when you haven't delivered on these ones from last year - and so on.

It's like you have all these backed up pipes, while no-one is living in the house you don't need to fix them, but as soon as someone moves in, well suddenly there's a lot of new work that can't be ignored.

Or to be even more cynical, but well it's true, the current model is about selling promises of products rather than products.

I think it is even simpler: Once they release they are bound to stop selling ships. That is the main promise and main argument against P2W, and is reiterated in every P2W discussion. There simply is an incentive to keep the dev phase going as possible. It just happens that CR is the PERFECT man in charge to get exactly this without it seeming intended

 

[milligna]

They aren't bound by anything. Certainly not taste... CR has already left plenty of wiggle room about selling "ship packages" after launch. Not that there is going to be much a market for those by that point -- which seems farther away than ever.

 

[Knightshark]

They aren't bound by anything. Certainly not taste... CR has already left plenty of wiggle room about selling "ship packages" after launch. Not that there is going to be much a market for those by that point -- which seems farther away than ever.

I just don't think that $100++ ships sales will be possible for a released game. It would look weird and out of place.

 

[1500]

Some possible new info.

TheAgent posted:
hello
expect to see some "in game" cutscenes soon
fps is still unplayable due to massive lag and other issues
right now the team does not want star marine in 2.6, Roberts does
new pusher scene coming soon (YouTube standalone trailer)
majority of the team has no idea things are bad financially
mostly young hires at this point
INN drama "hardly noticed" at CIG lol
going to start heavy sq42 focus and ads
expect to see a ridiculous list of single player features that are no where close to implemented
"SCII like" in how chapters and content are released
"A beta? A real beta [for Star Citizen]? 2020 at the earliest. My prediction? We ship something so far off the mark, every job we get is overshadowed by having RSI on our resumes."
"Our character tech looks great, as long as the player and the NPC are completely still. The second something moves on screen, things look terrible. We're fixing the same problems the last two years and nothing is improving. No, things are, things are getting better. The glacial pace of improvement is what's going to sink us."

Some of that will go over very well for the fans of CIG, they will point to it as progress.

 

[dsmart]

Perhaps I'm cynical, as well, because accountability is a big part of this - whether you look at CIG from the point of a developer or a group of people still seeking funding after reaching twice what they originally asked in order to deliver a game (or games, plural, if you're counting both SC and SQ42).

Ships are (costly) marketing. It's not like they are already in existence and can just be dropped into the game. The artwork is sold, and then they have to dedicate resources to designing functional ships.

And yes, they have backed themselves into a corner. They are extending engineering debt with every ship sale, meanwhile, the original game(s) and scope (even if we look at the current goals) are not even "in there." 2.6 is supposed to ameliorate flight and...other things, I guess. Who knows what 3.0 is supposed to be. In the end, they're arbitrary numbers, so if some modicum of improvement is made on flight, CIG can call that 2.6 and consider the job done. 3.0 is just lagniappe, in their eyes.

With the most recent TOS, CIG has the ability to call it a day whenever they feel they've "caught up" on their promises, label it the MVP, and walk away/sell the IP (if they can find a buyer with enough radiation shielding)/shrug and say, "It's already in there!," like they did with Star Marine many moons ago.

Yes, there needs to be accountability, and both Reddit and the RSI forums are raising this point. There will be damage control, but right now, those backers who are reaching their threshold are showing how much of a mess this whole thing really is, with no sign of an actual "game" in sight.

The thing is that, for some odd reason, most of these dissenters are acting as if this is all new. Regardless of my blogs, or what anyone has been saying this past 18 months, all the signs that this was were already there. They chose to ignore it, and BELIEVE. Here we are.

I mean, look at this:

Spoiler

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/7236144/#Comment_7236144

Spoiler

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/7235783/#Comment_7235783

 

[Maruun]

The thing is that, for some odd reason, most of these dissenters are acting as if this is all new. Regardless of my blogs, or what anyone has been saying this past 18 months, all the signs that this was were already there. They chose to ignore it, and BELIEVE. Here we are.

I mean, look at this:

Spoiler

http://imgur.com/L4kOh2j.png

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/7236144/#Comment_7236144

Spoiler

http://imgur.com/o5kERFR.png

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/7235783/#Comment_7235783

I am not suprised, more and more see the signs more and more think silently back to all those sceptic and "hatespeech", as they called. Its a seed that is placed and gets nurtured by CIG/RSI over time. Just wait for fruits to bear while the rotting apples falls down to the withering dream and people starting waking up.

I dont know if i should be happy or feel pity for those people. Because that will be a huge headache for them.

I always said, its not the community of SC that needs to prove me wrong about being sceptic...its CR/RSI/CIG that needs to prove me wrong..and they do a pretty bad job in that.

 

[jcrg99]

I was in Punta Cana during the last weeks. Surprised that I didn't find Roberts/Sandi there this time. Maybe the development started now? Any news?

 

[dsmart]

I was in Punta Cana during the last weeks. Surprised that I didn't find Roberts/Sandi there this time. Maybe the development started now? Any news?

Yeah, Star Citizen is finished and is being released this Friday during the anniversary stream.

 

[Zieman]

Yeah, Star Citizen is finished and is being released this Friday during the anniversary stream.

What if this really happens?

Pre-pre-pre-pre-Alpha 2.6 is released on friday & CR waves his hands while Sandi giggles & cries simultaneously telling that the game's ready, 'cos you know like the MVP is 2.6 which is actually 3.0 and DS wasn't right even when he said exactply this would happen...

 

[Wotthe Dickens]

Can we start a poll on how long until (and if) CR goes public with 'there's a problem with bringing these amazing bits we've been working on all together' - will there ever be this announcement.?

 

[Jenner]

Some possible new info.


Some of that will go over very well for the fans of CIG, they will point to it as progress.

What's the deal with this guy, anyway? CIG employee? Has he/she made any predictions that have been accurate? Something concrete? Really curious.... just asking. It would be interesting if so.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Brave man that Mr Agony_Aunt.

 

[VidarSnipes]

What's the deal with this guy, anyway? CIG employee? Has he/she made any predictions that have been accurate? Something concrete? Really curious.... just asking. It would be interesting if so.

I think he either has an access to some developer-only forums, or has friends/acquaintances working at CIG. A lot of his claims can't be proven or disproven, for example 20 hours per day of crunch before Citizencon, as a developer exposing those things publically would be commiting a career suicide, and CIG would never confirm it either.

 

[dsmart]

What's the deal with this guy, anyway? CIG employee? Has he/she made any predictions that have been accurate? Something concrete? Really curious.... just asking. It would be interesting if so.

He has friends on the inside; and he also hired some of the ex-CIG folks. Yes, some of his leaks have turned out to be true.

 

[Ben Parry]

Not connected enough to know about the worm, though

 

[jcrg99]

Yeah, Star Citizen is finished and is being released this Friday during the anniversary stream.

Can't wait

 

[VidarSnipes]

At least we would have something to discuss, beyond shiny demos and rampant rumours...