The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Sunleader]

Can you source any examples of this? I do try and keep up with this thread (it's like an itch isn't it...?) and I can't recall the majority of the regular posters expressing such a thing.



Does the same logic apply to those who love the game, as in, the opposite side of the coin?

1.
I am not about to Empty my Ignore List and have all the Work through the Ton of Posts we had back then on this Topic and which consisted of little more than one line insults against SC and anyone in Favor of it *gg*
So you either believe it or you dont
Your Free Choice.

2.
Yes.
This is an General thing among Humans and goes for Positive as well as Negative things.
As soon as the Person wants to believe something to be True. It is very likely that he will Interprete things in a warped way for this idea to be Supported as True.

For example.
The Idea that SC could Possibly hold its Original Release Shedule was Absurd. Many Believed it. But anyone doing some basic Check knew that this would never Fly under any Rational Estimation of Game Development Speed.
Even right now. An Realistic Shedule for the Game to be Released in the Scale in which they Announced it. Would be something around 2019.
An Properly Playable and Consistent Beta might be available within 2017 actually. But its likely going to be Riddled with Bugs.


One Funny thing on the other Side was the Discussion about the Issue of Legs being Warped away when Flying on Player Ships.
This is not really part of the Game. It stems from the Engine. This sort of Bug is very common along many Games which are using an Engine that was not Intended to allow Players moving themselves Independently on Moving Objects.
Games with this Engine Normally Lock a Player in Position with the Vehicle. Because the Engine cannot Handle this Properly and the Position Triggers for the Leg to Floor Connections get Messed up.
Yet no matter how much this was explained nobody cares because they only wanted this to be negative on SC

Honest Critizism looks for an Analysis. Not for finding Problems. Critics being one Specific Part is Normal. But if anything but problems is refused. Its an clear sign that the Person is not reasonable but just wants to spread hatred.
Likewise this goes for Fans of course. If any sort of Critizism or Problem is denied you can assume you wont be convincing that one of any problems anyways he just wants the Game to be good and wont hear anything else.

SunLeader, it is not about honesty, it is about having different opinion. Sorry, but not everyone in the world has to agree about state of SC or SQ42 with you and other enthusiasts. It is the same about ED - no one is demanded or required to clap hands and say it is all cool. There's constant barrage of near toxic levels of aggressiveness towards it. But as long it doesn't overstep boundaries, it is fully allowed here.

In my opinion gameplay mechanic wise SC and SQ42 is very poor at this point. It feels prototyping level, and even that doesn't fully convince. However I have always said that I understand why some people enjoy SC tech demos at this point - it is mostly because they just want to mock around and play pretend in some sort of walking space game sandbox. And I have always pointed out how SC backers confuse a hell out of these two. It does not, however, make it a full game or product promised by CIG.

So while shiny assets and some visuals might be inspiring, overall project state is not something to be amazed or there's very visible progress.

Facts are Facts and Lies are Lies.
There is nothing Opinion Relevant on this.
That SC is making Progress is just as much a Fact as that their Flight Model Sucks

You can have an Opinion about finding the Total State of the Game Good or Bad.
Or about wether you think the Damage Model of Ships is Awesome or Pixel Mania.

But not about Facts.
And the Game not Progressing is a Lie.
Just like the SQ42 not being there is a Fact as well.

Wether SQ42 will be coming or not coming is Opinions and Guesses again.
And wether the Progress will be enough to make it in time to Release a Good Game before Money Runs out is another Estimate or Opinion.

And that last part is your Opinion as well.
You can Laugh but if you check out 7 Days to Die in Alpha 4 and then in Alpha 15 you.ll see both are nowhere close to a Triple A Graphics Project. But the Difference is Staggering.
That sort of thing is fairly normal for Alphas. You work on one Part after another. Which means that other Parts might just be Ignored entirely for Months.
Thats why its called an Alpha
But as I said. Thats an opinion.
And of course People who dont care about Graphics at all but care alot for the Options of Boarding an Friends Spaceship and Fly Around being able to Open the Hatch and Fire a Gun out of it.
Will think entirely differently.
You would laugh how Bugged Sandboxes often are. This sort of thing is not really new to these Players. They are used to Worse than SC to be Honest.
And they also know from Alpha Experience that this sort of thing can look entirely Different later on. To the Point that you would not Recognize it.

Just to give you a feeling of what Sandbox MP Players are expecting in Alpha.
Check these two Videos (Just watching a few Minutes of each to see the Graphics, Physics etc and Compare them.
Thats the same Game.

[video=youtube;_KmaU3VJ388]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KmaU3VJ388[/video]

[video=youtube;e-E_GfE2yS0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-E_GfE2yS0[/video]

One of the Next Updates Promised alot more Roundings to cover the Edges by the way.
After the Terrain lost its Blocky Minecraft Look. The Next Step is that Buildings etc also Stop looking Blocky



BUT. And thats the Thing.
Some things are not opinions.
Claiming there is no Progress when there Evidently is. Is an Lie.

Alot of the Regulars here. Are Simply Haters. What they are doing is not Voicing Opinions.
What they are doing is Spreading Fake Information and Lies. As easy as that
Alot of them dont even talk on SC at all anyways. They just make Provocative Comments and indirect Insults to SC Fans.

Lying is not Against the Law. So yes its Allowed.
But that doesnt make it Fine

 

[Tippis]

Alot of the Regulars here. Are Simply Haters. What they are doing is not Voicing Opinions.
What they are doing is Spreading Fake Information and Lies. As easy as that

Do you have any actual examples of this?

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Alot of the Regulars here. Are Simply Haters. What they are doing is not Voicing Opinions.
What they are doing is Spreading Fake Information and Lies. As easy as that
Alot of them dont even talk on SC at all anyways. They just make Provocative Comments and indirect Insults to SC Fans.

Lying is not Against the Law. So yes its Allowed.
But that doesnt make it Fine

Calling "everyone with an opinion you disagree with" a liar and or a hater is hardly constructive.

Why not try to catch flies with honey? Your topic for the day has been how much progress has been made in SC (last year), so maybe document some if it? As you say, facts are facts and opinions are opinions.

If, in your opinion, a realistic full-featured release of SC is 2019, so a minimum of 24 months away, that makes for an interesting discussion in itself.
Will they fix their patcher to reduce their data bills?

Will any part of Sq 42 (prelude, ep1, etc) be seen before then?
Is the constant tug of war between "Can't release more SC content, working on sq42 / Can't release sq42 prelude, working on SC" going to keep running for 2 more years? It does begin to feel like me playing my A level tutors off each other, until I realised they all sat in the same common room and compared notes on my excuses.

Will Ship Sales continue? Is the "fully funded at $65M" something we all need to be pragmatic about now and work on the premise that they no longer have funds to complete unless they keep selling jpegs?

Will Amazon LY finally solve the bugbear of networking which has been a millstone around the project?

Do we know for sure if they are still sticking with Client / Server? There is a level of "noisey opinion" about LY being more suited to P2P delivery.

There are lots of interesting questions about SC / sq42 which deserve to be asked and do not constitute "hate" by a long chalk

 

[Earthshine]

1.
I am not about to Empty my Ignore List and have all the Work through the Ton of Posts we had back then on this Topic and which consisted of little more than one line insults against SC and anyone in Favor of it *gg*
So you either believe it or you dont
Your Free Choice.

OK, so why should anyone here listen to you then? You've made a disparaging statement - yes, a statement - about a large group (majority) of people here and you are not willing to support it with any supporting evidence whatsoever. Now, if you'd said "I think alot of people here are overly critical of SC and have lost sight of the things CIG have achieved and the realities of game development" or something diplomatic and reasonable like that then I wouldn't have bothered challenging you. Instead you've chosen to label people as "haters" so as to dismiss them entirely. It's really quite ironic!

2.
Yes.
This is an General thing among Humans and goes for Positive as well as Negative things.
As soon as the Person wants to believe something to be True. It is very likely that he will Interprete things in a warped way for this idea to be Supported as True.

For example.
The Idea that SC could Possibly hold its Original Release Shedule was Absurd. Many Believed it. But anyone doing some basic Check knew that this would never Fly under any Rational Estimation of Game Development Speed.
Even right now. An Realistic Shedule for the Game to be Released in the Scale in which they Announced it. Would be something around 2019.
An Properly Playable and Consistent Beta might be available within 2017 actually. But its likely going to be Riddled with Bugs.

And what do you think about the people who did believe that? Are they silly folk who should be ignored because well...they are silly, or are they just as relevant as any other perhaps more informed backer? Personally I think it's dangerously close to taking advantage of people. Granted if it has been once they got the date wrong...fine...much more cash etc - reasonable explanation if not ideal scenario - but it simply has not been.

You are, of course, right about the first part of the quote above, I'm glad we can agree on this.

 

[Adept]

Ok so I had a chance to check out Star Citizen outside of my normal "free play" weekends stuff. 2.6 is certainly a huge Leap forward is smoothness and performance, at least it is without the crush of 10,000 trying it for the first time together. I loaded up Crusader and requested a Mustang Alpha. Spend 5 minutes trying to get in, seemed like there was an issue with the "use" option not appearing but I finally stood on n one leg,squinted my eyes, aligned with Venus and got the ladder triggered. I launched and was immediately at full speed, slid the throttle to zero and....

like God himself reached down and seized the thing. How does a spaceship stop INSTANTLY? Tried this a couple more times. No drift, no momentum, just perfectly executed movements. Like a FPS debug camera.

So then a weird thing happened and my controls reset to defaults, throttle no longer worked, stick movement to roll and twist to yaw became move to yaw and twist to roll. I went 3rd person, saw that someone was in the cockpit with me, but not my friend, just some random person who apparently followed me up the ladder. Just stood there twitching and clipping through the chair behind me. No matter, don't think it affected anything. When I went back to first person mode my controls were restored. I was frustrated by now. I gave it a longer spin, flew through the station rings, buzzed close to the station. The kind of stuff I used to do in my Viper when Elite was new. It had none of the thrill because I didn't feel like I was flying. For goodness sake, I pressed space bar and thrust up at hundreds of miles per second, the station shrank to a quarter its size while I was still trying to figure out what that was supposed to do.

So, a whole lot of that to demonstrate what I mean when I ask this:
Where is this supposed new flight model? Why can a spacecraft in vacuum go from full speed to zero movement in the exact amount of time it takes me to slide my throttle to zero? Why does up-thrust seem so insanely powerful/fast? Is this a game about flying spaceships or not, because while I appreciate the ability to buy a new hat, I expected the flight model update I've heard so much about to be more substantive.

In the end, I thanked my friend for the opportunity to check it out, and said I'd keep holding out hope for changes in 3.0. I've joked about them delivering an unfinished game, but if they don't get to the point where ships feel like ships, and I do mean soon, I don't see how they could try to release this at all.

Ever since Arena Commander 0.8 released, I have felt that the devs have no understanding of what a vehicle sim is. The "ship chases aiming cursor" IM game play was a huge red flag in itself, and it was there from the start. Chris wants to prove the doubters wrong, and re-make Freelancer without any publishers limiting him. His big idea back then was getting rid of the boring flying parts, and giving the players "FPS-like shooting precision". Because hey, that's what we really want in a space sim. Right?

- - - Updated - - -

Wasn't the top speed of the Viper III something like 700kps in Alpha? And then it was nerfed way down. Was that incompetence (STILL can't get it right?!) or was that just the normal result of test/implement?

It boosted to 500m/s, which was the limit back then.

 

[thorn-]

Ever since Arena Commander 0.8 released, I have felt that the devs have no understanding of what a vehicle sim is. The "ship chases aiming cursor" IM game play was a huge red flag in itself, and it was there from the start..

The flight in 2.6 is quite different than 2.4, so I have to believe that it's changed even more since 0.8.

On "ship chasing aiming cursor" - can you expound on that a bit? That's exactly what I do in Elite - chase the target with the reticle. (Which isn't a criticism... I just don't know what sort of more 'proper' method you're hoping for.)

 

[CmdrKull]

The flight in 2.6 is quite different than 2.4, so I have to believe that it's changed even more since 0.8

The way it works in Elite is that individual thrusters impart their own force on the ship as a whole. In SC I could see the thrusters lighting up, as though maintaining stability, but from flying around I cannot see that being what is really used to adjust or arrest momentum and velocity. If they're not real thrusters on the Mustang, I don't see them being real thrusters on the bigger ships, which means the bigger ships just fake it better in this latest patch and that's what they meant by reworked flight
Model.

Alright, so I'm clearly not a fan of that approach because it limits what you can do with the ship (FA off is huge for me in Elite, and I can't imagine the game without it) but I'll accept that is their approach and, when push comes to shove, I can enjoy some arcade space dogfights. It's just with the amount of detail they put into the First Person aspects of the game, it's an odd place to draw the line, at least to me. I'm still holding out hope that true flight mechanics are coming, and that 2.6 introduced a band-aide to get people started flying as though the real mechanics were there, at least on the bigger ships. If I got the chance, what would be the right ship to test?

 

[thorn-]

The way it works in Elite is that individual thrusters impart their own force on the ship as a whole.

This is exactly how it works in SC. You have the main engine which allows vectored thrust. You also have secondary thrusters giving the up/down/left/right/etc movement separate from the main. It's lovely when you're dogfighting in an asteroid belt.

Mode similar to F/A off also exists, called Decoupled. I'm not a big fan of it, but then again I don't use it much in Elite. Some pilots use it very effectively.

I'm not digging at you when I say this: It honestly sounds like you're playing a different game than I am. My normal ship is a fighter. Last night, I stranded myself in space, and another guy came along in a lumbering freighter. I asked for a ride back to port, and he offered to let me pilot for awhile. His ship behaved completely different than my fighter. It was like going from a Cobra to a T9. Sluggish, slow, lots of drift when too much lateral thrust took over... it was rather cool to try something different, and see for myself how different each ship can behave.

So... dunno what you're seeing, or what you aren't...

As to ship suggestion: go in the AC FreeFlight, or the Port Olisar in the PU ... find a friendly with something like a Hornet, Vanguard or Saber. Tell them you're a complete newbie and only have a Mustang. Ask if they'll let you try their ship, and I suspect you'll have a much different flight experience.

 

[VidarSnipes]

Not being a fanboy here: it's Alpha.

Wasn't the top speed of the Viper III something like 700kps in Alpha? And then it was nerfed way down. Was that incompetence (STILL can't get it right?!) or was that just the normal result of test/implement? Or when the Python was nerfed post-release. People still go on about that one. (I'd argue that the Python's substantial nerf should have happened pre-release.)

CIG is clearly working on things. Just 4 weeks ago, we didn't have Star Marine in the PU. Well, now we do. So everyone that said "There's no FPS at all yet... clearly the game has been over-spec'd" - well, Star Marine is Exhibit A. It's live now. Still alpha, but you can play it.

There's lots to be done, of course. But no rational person can fairly look at today vs 6-12 months ago and say "nothing has really changed."

Unfortunately, I'm one of those people who can look at what SC is right now and say it haven't changed that much since 2.0. I feel bad (well, a little) pointing all those things wrong with SC and its development, but I consider it a bit of an adverse reaction to life-threatening amount of hype this game generates. Anyway, even though I'm starting to feel that invoking Elite in this discussion detracts from the main point, here we go: reducing the speed of a ship is a trivial matter. ED changed the way speed bleeds off after the afterburner boost, and how it did add up when strafing, something that SC has also done (if I remember patch notes correctly) to no fanfare. The problem is, replacing all those supposed placeholders with proper systems has to be both hard and time-consuming, considering how advertised features were supposed to be way more complex than what we have right now.

"Nothing has really changed" is an exaggeration, but that's what I can think of that was introduced in last twelve months, that is since 2.0:

a)few new ships, with Starfarer being notable because of its' size
b)the ability to change clothes, with few options of outfits
c)the most basic ability to store values (worn clothes, cash)
d)another full-fledged location (Grim Hex), bringing the total up to two, plus few minor ones
e)changes to the flight model
f)enclosing already existent FPS gameplay (from the PU) in two separate FPS maps, with fixed headbob and the implementation of contextual menus
g)making non-buggy EVA possible
h)some bug-fixes

I'm not a game dev, but that seems like a pretty poor list, and it looks even worse than compared to promises of developers and hopes of the fanbase.

Criticisms of SM being COD-ish run and gun are being argued against by claiming that it's just a game in the SC universe and proper FPS will be far more tactical and deadly. If that argument is true, it means that CIG has wasted hell knows how much time for creating the module which doesn't bring them any closer to making the FPS component the way it was supposed to be. If it's false, on the other hand, it means that first person gameplay is not going to play how it was supposed to.
I consider the "It's an alpha" argument at best inaccurate, it's used to deflect any criticism by claiming it will be fixed in the future. Unfortunately, there is no evidence that it will happen ever. I don't think anyone can't name any feature in current SC that isn't considered a placeholder, but if it took five years to collect a bunch of placeholders under one .exe, with a large part of features missing, how much time wil it take to a)replace placeholders with proper implementation of mechanics, b)introduce as of yet nonexistent features to at least placeholder quality?

TL;DR - it's an alpha, but an extremely slowly developed alpha, and there's no guarantee how many alpha features are going to be improved in the release version.

Alternative TL;DR - preaching to the choir and some atheists.

 

[McGlashan]

I can only assume the debug camera style motion is intended - that's exactly how the ships move here when trying to use a Caterpillar for it's intended purpose.

Wow, the glitching once the ships are in the bays is insane. Guess there won't be any interactive carrier landings in Prelude if they want to squeeze it out before the summer (and it's not going to have a better flight model either). 4 years and millions of dollars of engine development, right there.

 

[Stigbob]

Stigbob, maybe you should add "3.0 before the New year - did not happen" to your list of CIG fails...

Oddly enough THE LIST which I haven't bothered to touch for over a month already has the lines :

3.0 (not in 2016)
Dates (all missed so far)

Which cover 3.0 pretty well already without any editing required.

Spoiler

THE LIST

Initial release 2014 (didn't happen)
Ship sales (overpriced engineering debt)
Dates (all missed so far)
Flight model (man it's bad)
Likely completion decade (if at all)
Use of backer funds (the backers will never know)
Wild theory-crafting (everything not available to play)
Pay2win (it is)
Comparisons with ED (ED is the BDSSE)
NMS (going the same way)
Derek Smart (he was right)
Citcon 2016 (disastrous)
3.0 (not in 2016)
Refunds (get em while you can)
Scapegoating (Derek, Illphonic, leavers)
The new TOS (your money is ours we don't need to make a game)
Development start date (it was October 2011)
Star Marine (on again, off again, already in the game)
Illphonic (CiG gave them the wrong scale to work to)
RSI forum (cast out the unbelievers)
Freelancer (history repeating)
Underdog act (CiG/RSI are now a multinational multimillion dollar business)
Sandworms (Frank Herberts IP)
Coffee machines (Lol)
Blood oxygen levels (no space in the game)
Chris Roberts physics expert (he isn't)
Legalistic bluff called (the escapist)
Labelling backers (goon, special snowflakes, high maintenance, toxic dinks)
Accusations of corporate espionage (beer4thebeergod)
INN ( Run by a rep management company, less viewers than pgabz)
Star citizen subreddit (controversial tab concealed by default, brigading)
PG birds (scopecreep on the fly)
Handcrafted universe superior to PG (this may take some time)
Switching focus from handcrafting to PG (NMS/ED bandwagon)
PU neglected for SQ42 (vast majority of backers want PU)
CR thinks he's making a movie (repeatedly says "movie" when he means "game")
Mocap (hollywood obsession)
Build your own studio (repeatedly)
Expensive reshoots (repeatedly)
Renting the imaginarium (most expensive in the world)
"Original" artwork (other studios logo's still visible)
Ongoing scopecreep (cargocult)
Physical relocation to hollywood (they trade on the internet)
100 systems at launch (they'd need decades for this)
Tusken raiders (George lucas's IP)
Nipple jets (jetpacks not required for EVA)
Killer door control (no space in the game)
Refactoring (does not mean what you think it means)
Top Gun "inspired" stuff (Hornet ad and inverted finger)
Monthly patches (have never been monthly)
Tutorial broken ("fixed" by removing it completely)
Ships don't spawn correctly (very old bug)
Random ship explosion (very old bug)
Multicrew numbers exceed player maximum
FPS not impressive (in an FPS engine)
Animations are glitchy
No VR support (you can't just add it later)
The "patcher" is a complete download everytime
Chat UI unchanged (CR said it would be changed live)
Crash reporter not reporting information
Staff retention issues (leavers)
CR makes unrealistic demands (from the man himself)
Lack of internal coordination (seat numbers)
STOP SAYING 'VERSE (Joss Wheedon IP)
New ship direct copy from final fantasy (can't be bothered with CIG name)


SUB LIST THE CULT

Claim to be the voice of backers (actually internet loonies)
Greymarket (you can't say black market that sounds illegal)
Deterring customers (the prospect of playing a game with them)
Run a hate sub (r/dereksmart)
Hatesub moderators shared with greymarket (financial motive)
Interference with the ED forum (exposed gaming the rep system)
Brigading
Threats
Death threats
Abuse
Misinformation
Review bombing competition (LOD ED NMS COD:IW)
Journalist intimidation ("wah" clickbait)
Suppressing the truth (happily embrace positive lies)
Paranoia (they see Derek everywhere)
Encouraging purchases (whilst applying the above)
False claims about ED's development time
Yaw is not a dirty word
Living embodiment of the Streisand effect

Can anyone think of other things to pop into it ? all that's required is a short phrase identifying the issue and a source (I prefer CIG as the source wherever possible because it's funny).

 

[Sunleader]

OK, so why should anyone here listen to you then? You've made a disparaging statement - yes, a statement - about a large group (majority) of people here and you are not willing to support it with any supporting evidence whatsoever. Now, if you'd said "I think alot of people here are overly critical of SC and have lost sight of the things CIG have achieved and the realities of game development" or something diplomatic and reasonable like that then I wouldn't have bothered challenging you. Instead you've chosen to label people as "haters" so as to dismiss them entirely. It's really quite ironic!



And what do you think about the people who did believe that? Are they silly folk who should be ignored because well...they are silly, or are they just as relevant as any other perhaps more informed backer? Personally I think it's dangerously close to taking advantage of people. Granted if it has been once they got the date wrong...fine...much more cash etc - reasonable explanation if not ideal scenario - but it simply has not been.

You are, of course, right about the first part of the quote above, I'm glad we can agree on this.

1.
Well why Should they
Why should anyone here listen to you or anyone else by the way
After all we aint Providing Evidence for anything we say here Right

See Mate your right now making an Grand Example of this.
You felt attacked by my Statement. You immediately decided hey this Guy is the Enemy he wants me Dead he is Wrong. *gg*

So you immediately demand more Evidence from me than from others.
You aint actually even trying to reason with me or try arguing the Statement. You immediately increase the Standart on my Person so you can Continue consider me wrong without actually facing the Argument or Explanatiion I made

By the way this is another Reason why I am not going to dig up the old Posts of that Topic back then.
Because even if I were to Invest that Work. You would Disagree with that and change the Interpretion of them so you can Claim that I am still wrong


The People in this Topic I was talking to. Actually Know what I was talking about. They see these Regulars Regular after all ^^
So they know pretty well just what I am getting at.
But no matter what I could ever do or say. Would ever Change your Mind of me being the offensive guy there.
And I have been Active in Online Forums for well over 10 Years. So sorry for not going along with this Game anymore


As I said.
You want to Claim I am wrong.
go ahead
You dont want to listen to me ? Very Good ^^ Then Dont


I made an Explanation to you.
An Reasoning
That Reasoning Stands for itself. Its not Affected by wherever you consider me Credible or like me

So if you want to make me actually Listen to YOU
I Suggest you try Attacking the Reason rather than my Person ^^
Otherwise you can just as well leave it be Because I am not going to Discuss my Person or my Ignore List with you
It doesnt lead anywhere anyways ^^


2.
I dont really think much about them at all to be honest.
See. We are all Adults. And the Truth is that Kickstarter is telling People Pretty Clearly that this is an Investment into an Project. Not you Buying a Game. It Informs about the Risk that this might not be on Schedule or might even not come at all.
Anyone doing a minimum bit of Research will find very Fast that what your Paying for is Developing a Game which means that there is no Guarantee it will be Finished.
Similar to an Stock Investment this includes some Risk.
The RSI Site itself is giving much less Info. But they do give you the Information on this when you check for it or if you Demand a Refund. And you GET a Refund if you still want it.

So everyone has to make his own Decision on this. And the Company itself is pretty apparently believing that they can make this Game. So its not an Fraud. It might Fail of course. Thats an Possibility. But its not Proven to Fail either
You can Complain that RSI should make more of an Effort to Clear People up about this. But its Fairly Human on their Side as well that they dont want to make massive efforts to do Negative Advertising for themselves. ^^


As for what I think of these People in Forums. Is the very Same I think about anyone else who refuses to Reason.
if they get on my Nerves they will end on my Ignore List. As easy as that.
I dont have time to Talk with People who dont wish to Reason on an actual Argument and instead go for an Outright Denial without reasoning or move towards questioning the Person behind the Statement rather than attempting to attack the Statement itself

 

[Tippis]

I dont have time to Talk with People who dont wish to Reason on an actual Argument and instead go for an Outright Denial without reasoning or move towards questioning the Person behind the Statement rather than attempting to attack the Statement itself

And yet, you aren't willing to actually substantiate your statement, preferring to call people haters and liars instead, and now inventing all kinds of nonsense that they're supposed to think or to have said. Does this not strike you as hypocritical — that when the statement is questioned, you ignore it and just inject the exact same kind of denial and personal attacks you are now decrying?

 

[frostypaw]

Similar to an Stock Investment this includes some Risk.

This is nothing like stock investment - there is no way you can profit from it and the money is simply gone. Once the game is out in order for the game to be playable the ships values will have to plummet significantly to avoid the game becoming Pay2Win so there's no way around it - the money is gone.

 

[thorn-]

STOP SAYING 'VERSE (Joss Wheedon IP)

I'll stop saying 'Verse when Braben fans stops saying "Winter is Coming".

 

[Zetta]

1.
Well why Should they
Why should anyone here listen to you or anyone else by the way
After all we aint Providing Evidence for anything we say here Right

Spoiler

See Mate your right now making an Grand Example of this.
You felt attacked by my Statement. You immediately decided hey this Guy is the Enemy he wants me Dead he is Wrong. *gg*

So you immediately demand more Evidence from me than from others.
You aint actually even trying to reason with me or try arguing the Statement. You immediately increase the Standart on my Person so you can Continue consider me wrong without actually facing the Argument or Explanatiion I made

By the way this is another Reason why I am not going to dig up the old Posts of that Topic back then.
Because even if I were to Invest that Work. You would Disagree with that and change the Interpretion of them so you can Claim that I am still wrong


The People in this Topic I was talking to. Actually Know what I was talking about. They see these Regulars Regular after all ^^
So they know pretty well just what I am getting at.
But no matter what I could ever do or say. Would ever Change your Mind of me being the offensive guy there.
And I have been Active in Online Forums for well over 10 Years. So sorry for not going along with this Game anymore


As I said.
You want to Claim I am wrong.
go ahead
You dont want to listen to me ? Very Good ^^ Then Dont


I made an Explanation to you.
An Reasoning
That Reasoning Stands for itself. Its not Affected by wherever you consider me Credible or like me

So if you want to make me actually Listen to YOU
I Suggest you try Attacking the Reason rather than my Person ^^
Otherwise you can just as well leave it be Because I am not going to Discuss my Person or my Ignore List with you
It doesnt lead anywhere anyways ^^


2.
I dont really think much about them at all to be honest.
See. We are all Adults. And the Truth is that Kickstarter is telling People Pretty Clearly that this is an Investment into an Project. Not you Buying a Game. It Informs about the Risk that this might not be on Schedule or might even not come at all.
Anyone doing a minimum bit of Research will find very Fast that what your Paying for is Developing a Game which means that there is no Guarantee it will be Finished.
Similar to an Stock Investment this includes some Risk.
The RSI Site itself is giving much less Info. But they do give you the Information on this when you check for it or if you Demand a Refund. And you GET a Refund if you still want it.

So everyone has to make his own Decision on this. And the Company itself is pretty apparently believing that they can make this Game. So its not an Fraud. It might Fail of course. Thats an Possibility. But its not Proven to Fail either
You can Complain that RSI should make more of an Effort to Clear People up about this. But its Fairly Human on their Side as well that they dont want to make massive efforts to do Negative Advertising for themselves. ^^


As for what I think of these People in Forums. Is the very Same I think about anyone else who refuses to Reason.
if they get on my Nerves they will end on my Ignore List. As easy as that.
I dont have time to Talk with People who dont wish to Reason on an actual Argument and instead go for an Outright Denial without reasoning or move towards questioning the Person behind the Statement rather than attempting to attack the Statement itself

So you accuse others of posting unsubstantiated information, and then partake in the posting of unsubstantiated information yourself but apparently it's okay for you to do this because you believe others are doing it, although you won't back up that claim...

It seems rather duplicitous to criticise others if you're then going to do it yourself.

 

[Maruun]

I'll stop saying 'Verse when Braben fans stops saying "Winter is Coming".

And yet he was right! It was just not what people expected! And he was misunderstood! *Takes the SC mindset to explain stuff*

 

[thorn-]

This is nothing like stock investment - there is no way you can profit from it and the money is simply gone.

The similarity is that both require investment, and neither promises a return nor profit.

Both do offer a prospective gain: the market offers cash, the game offers an experience... again, different offers, but both are based upon success after investment.

Once the game is out in order for the game to be playable the ships values will have to plummet significantly to avoid the game becoming Pay2Win

That's sort of a gratuitous argument; we all know what logic says about such things.

 

[Stigbob]

I'll stop saying 'Verse when Braben fans stops saying "Winter is Coming".

Ah now there's a bit of a difference there you see, ED fans say winter is coming as a humorous reference to thargoids/aliens whilst quoting game of thrones, because geek humour. CIG say verse in their official marketing because they stole it from a sci-fi series made by someone with talent and want to use it to milk fans of that series for money.

Fans and official marketing, entirely different things. Hope that helps.

 

[thorn-]

Ah now there's a bit of a difference there you see, ED fans say winter is coming as a humorous reference to thargoids/aliens whilst quoting game of thrones

Wasn't it Braben's answer to a question in a podcast?

CIG say verse in their official marketing because they stole it from a sci-fi series

And Lucas was accused of plagiarism when he wrote Star Wars. Who really cares, beyond those looking for another item to add to a bullet list?