Been flying all night in SC combat, having a quite a bit of fun...
The Star Citizen Thread v5
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Been flying all night in SC combat, having a quite a bit of fun...
Where you put it on my scale of flight model goodness :
Freelancer (terrible)
X-com interceptor (bad)
X-wing alliance (average)
Freespace 2 (above average)
Elite Dangerous (BDSSE)
Sigh.
Ok given your the one making this Question. I.ll Answer it.
Warning Offtopic.
Nope. Its an habit from writing German.
[video=youtube;JvJft2fJmaA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvJft2fJmaA[/video]
In German you will capitalize any Noun.
This also includes Verbs when used to describe or name the Action.
And this is where the Language Barrier kicks in. As I am not always sure on each verb in English because some words are simply different and/or are differently used.
One good example.
"I am going for a Walk"
"I mache einen Spaziergang"
In this case the word "walk" for me just does not make sense to be lower case letter.
Because in my head its translated to German and thus means "Spaziergang" which is using a Capital Letter. (As an sidenote. This word "Capital Letter" is the same problem. In German this would say "Großbuchstabe" which would be written with a Capital Letter.)
If I however had to write.
"How about you walk over there?" You notice I am not using a Capital Letter for "walk"
Because this translate to "Wie wäre es wenn du dort rüber gehst"
A pure Verb is not using a Capital Letter in German even if its the exactly same Word.
(Seriously. Write "Ich mache einen Spaziergang". And put it into Google Translate. And then just switch the Google Translator back and forth between translating German to English and English to German. It will change the Translation each time in Circles because the meaning and the by word translation ends up in different forms between English and German.)
So to sum it up.
This Habit (Note "This Habit" again naming something hence Capital Letter) comes from the Language Difference (Again "Language Difference" in German would be one Word "Sprachbarriere" which is naming something).
In German I have to actually have this Habit. Because it is actually the correct way to write in German. But when writing English. This tends to mess up completely because from the start I dont know each single Form in English anyways. And on top some meanings and expressions are entirely different to begin with.
And nope. Wont change it. ^^
Sorry but changing this Habit slows down my Writing Speed ("Schreibgeschwindigkeit" <- Name of something) quite considerable because I have to pay attention to the Habit rather than paying attention to what I am saying. And I cant put the Habit away entirely. Because this Habit is actually required and trained for writing German
To begin with Mate.
I know your actually just asking because your wondering.
But the thing is. This topic only always comes up after People started going into Indirect Insults and derailing the Topic away from the Arguments made.
It pretty much never comes up during an actual Discussion. But ALWAYS only later when People I got on Ignore. (like the guy you quoted ^^) which follow and comment me and have been Ignoring the actual Topic for several Pages.
[video=youtube;JvJft2fJmaA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvJft2fJmaA[/video]
In German you will capitalize any Noun.
This also includes Verbs when used to describe or name the Action.
And this is where the Language Barrier kicks in. As I am not always sure on each verb in English because some words are simply different and/or are differently used.
One good example.
"I am going for a Walk"
"I mache einen Spaziergang"
In this case the word "walk" for me just does not make sense to be lower case letter.
Because in my head its translated to German and thus means "Spaziergang" which is using a Capital Letter. (As an sidenote. This word "Capital Letter" is the same problem. In German this would say "Großbuchstabe" which would be written with a Capital Letter.)
If I however had to write.
"How about you walk over there?" You notice I am not using a Capital Letter for "walk"
Because this translate to "Wie wäre es wenn du dort rüber gehst"
A pure Verb is not using a Capital Letter in German even if its the exactly same Word.
(Seriously. Write "Ich mache einen Spaziergang". And put it into Google Translate. And then just switch the Google Translator back and forth between translating German to English and English to German. It will change the Translation each time in Circles because the meaning and the by word translation ends up in different forms between English and German.)
So to sum it up.
This Habit (Note "This Habit" again naming something hence Capital Letter) comes from the Language Difference (Again "Language Difference" in German would be one Word "Sprachbarriere" which is naming something).
In German I have to actually have this Habit. Because it is actually the correct way to write in German. But when writing English. This tends to mess up completely because from the start I dont know each single Form in English anyways. And on top some meanings and expressions are entirely different to begin with.
And nope. Wont change it. ^^
Sorry but changing this Habit slows down my Writing Speed ("Schreibgeschwindigkeit" <- Name of something) quite considerable because I have to pay attention to the Habit rather than paying attention to what I am saying. And I cant put the Habit away entirely. Because this Habit is actually required and trained for writing German
To begin with Mate.
I know your actually just asking because your wondering.
But the thing is. This topic only always comes up after People started going into Indirect Insults and derailing the Topic away from the Arguments made.
It pretty much never comes up during an actual Discussion. But ALWAYS only later when People I got on Ignore. (like the guy you quoted ^^) which follow and comment me and have been Ignoring the actual Topic for several Pages.
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That first line, thats hindsight.
Funny you should say 80-90 million, when I was disputing things way back when the full list of stretch goals were known I said $80m would be the absolute best case scenario and would likely ensure complete development of all features and maybe some left over to expand once they had a really sweet game out on shelves. Those were actually quite good times when I look back at it.
I've no personal vendetta against Crobblers, if I bumped into him in a bar I'd probably buy him a drink and have a chat, I'd grill him relentlessly of course but I would be fair and I would listen to his explanations. I thought S42 would be cool, and there was a lack of single player space games similar to the old WC/Tie Fighter/Epic games at the time, but the MMO was what kept me watching it closer than I perhaps would have otherwise.
I do go off on tangents and mix subject targets when reeling off forum words though, the loan rumours do bother me greatly. The reason for my annoyance at them will shock many SC fans and non goons, it is I want them to make the game, I want to play it someday along with everyone else and not just so I can do what I normally do in the PU and go round crashing my ship into peoples faces while laughing loudly or finding ways to steal everyones stuff to harvest the tears. I genuinely want to see it completed and playable but the company building it seems to make a habit of letting everyone down, being economical with the truth and worst of all in my eyes, taking other peoples hard earned money for granted while asking for more.
I've learned from experience that when something is hyped or promoted with little to back it up, there's problems, and when something is drowned in nothing but hype, it's almost guarenteed to be dishonest in some way. I'll happily nod my head and say "well done" when they produce something that warrants it, but so far the only time I've done that was with the 2.0 release. Instead of giving them props for their bold claims, their plans or their advertising, give them props for finishing something, for giving you the product, not bits of broken prototypes.
Remember, I am in the same group as all the other backers, the only difference is some of them choose to ignore and even gloss over things that are potential issues, whereas I will pursue and question things and sometimes, it doesn't rub well with others
Given you cant even write his Name without massacring it.
I somehow still feel you got some Personal Vendetta there xD
But oh well nvm.
if your worried or bothered by this. Well that cannot be helped.
But I.ll still tell you. That this is an Fairly expectable and normal result.
Financing of an Project has to be done At the Start of the Project. Not in between.
And while for later Features. It is likely that they started to use the Full Budget Requirement for the Stretch Goal.
For the earlier Stretch Goals. I am almost 100% Sure. That they only used around 10%, 30% to 50% of the actual needed Budget depending on how far they were into the Campaign. And Loaned the Rest of the Budget.
And thats how things are usually done.
This can of course be contested as not being good.
I mean right now I am thinking of Buying a House.
And usually you would need an Starting Budget for that to take a Loan for the Rest.
But no matter how I calculate it. Taking a Loan right away rather than Paying rent till I got this Budget. Ends up coming Cheaper.
So should I wait for having the Starting Budget. Or should I just take a Full Loan right away.
Generally most People say. To wait. Less Risky and more proper.
But calculation wise its Cheaper not to wait
Looks nice atmospheric surface.
Edit: as for Chris newsletter - did we expected anything else? Any release dates? Nope. Any direct Squadron 42 mention? Nope. It even avoids to mention it, concentrating on SC Alpha 3.0. Anything said/promised in second half of 2016 just to get backers money? Hahahahahahahaha, nope.
Sorry, but not gonna fly.
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I think he's talking about the way our brains are wired up to be somewhat tribal, and that we tend to categorise people not in our "tribe" as being all alike. It is dangerous and must be fought if we are to remain civilised and civil. Examples would be "They're all the same, those Germans", or "That's typical for a Manchester United supporter". Talk of "bogus asylum seekers" by those who should know better uses this neurological bias to manipulate our opinions.
Ultimately, the people on this forum all like space sims. We do not belong to crude categories such as "Star Citizen Fanboy" or "Goon Hater". If we allow each contributor to express their own personal view, which may include interesting insights into the game we're discussing, and if we don't dismiss those views because of the mental category we've assigned that contributor to, we will have a richer and more interesting discussion.
It might also help if we didn't try to "win" the argument. That's not going to happen.
My problem is that SC side is acting tribal all the time - for few exceptions, like excellent Rolan - and when called out and we react we are getting name dropped like 'toxic', 'tribal', etc. This is what spoiled kids do who think they own town.
So while some of jokes and jump ons might be unjustifiedly tribal, I can totally see were this reaction is coming from.
If FD would decide to pull stunts like Gamescom and Citizencon with release date promises their offices would have been burnt down, literally. CIG? Chris is so nice, awwwww. Let's forgive him lying this time.
Nope, that time is over. Vigilance, questioning - same thing as with FD - is way forward. This is real project with huge customer's money put into it and without released product. We are most informed people about this project on whole planet. Let's stay civic, constructive, but please don't ask to play nice.
So while some of jokes and jump ons might be unjustifiedly tribal, I can totally see were this reaction is coming from.
If FD would decide to pull stunts like Gamescom and Citizencon with release date promises their offices would have been burnt down, literally. CIG? Chris is so nice, awwwww. Let's forgive him lying this time.
Nope, that time is over. Vigilance, questioning - same thing as with FD - is way forward. This is real project with huge customer's money put into it and without released product. We are most informed people about this project on whole planet. Let's stay civic, constructive, but please don't ask to play nice.
"Be Pure, Be Vigilant, Behave!"
So many armchair CEOs in this thread speaking for Chris Roberts himself
- - - Updated - - -
As long as you keep it to individuals and dont generalize a whole group many of you never did anything to you then sure, but you lashed out in a broad arc disregarding all the people who didnt do anythng.
Is this really of interest? I moderate a different forum myself and get confronted with all kinds of writing styles. Some people dont care, others like to use dude speak, many are no native english speakers and do the best they can. I myself have been ridiculed a lot in the past for honest typos trying to push me into a "" corner for it. While his capitalization might be weird it doesnt reduce the content of what hes saying and I consider his posts an easy read regardless.
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So they are all the same, and we are all diverse? I think that's exactly the way of seeing the world that Ben was talking about. Apologies if you were being ironic.
The whole CIG/RSI thing to me looks like a giant slow-motion train crash. Many people stand to be hurt, financially and by the dashing of their hopes and expectations for a great game. Now, I may be wrong, and it all may turn out well. But if some of the passengers on the train believe that the train company is doing a good job, and have faith in the company's ability to deliver, well, they're entitled to their opinions. Even if they (apparently, from our point of view) appear to fly in the face of the facts as we see them. It's the train company that should be under scrutiny, not the passengers.
Scrutiny is great. Helping people to see another point of view is great. Getting confrontational? Not so much, partly because it's uncivil, but also because it doesn't work as a means of persuasion.
Incidentally, I read this thread every day, and I really enjoy it. There's a lot of interesting discussion and many varied opinions. Thank you all for adding some interest to my day.
That sounds cool. Was it in AC, or the PU? Was it spontaneous parry and riposte stuff, or were you trying out different ships and loadouts against agreed opponents?
Do you use de-coupled? If so, does it give a much greater degree of maneuvering? I read the other day that contrary to the "everything is slower" vibe, some ships are now considerably faster in a straight line. That has led to all the racing module records being smashed since 2.6 launched?
I made the mistake to generalize people myself and feel ashamed for it afterwards especially when you find someone out of that group who is capable of rational thought and argumentation without making it personal. I get taunted too often Recently tho there have been a lot of posts on the RSI forum made by SC-fans aka truly believing into the project coming up with sceptical suggestions being swarmed and attacked by the rabid crowd. Suddenly these individuals are not one of them anymore regardless of past posts or actions ingame. Its like watching a frenzy MoB going after blood for whatever reason.
IMO the FD forum doesnt hold any of these MoB-types at least not in this thread. I consider all of the people participating here as individuals making up their own mind and not mindlessly bashing SC or defending ED even tho there are more then enough tries to change the topic, dominate the dicussion, derail the thread or simply taunt/troll others.
SC really "should" be the topic of this thread. Fact is that the company itself doesnt give us much of anything positive to discuss yet theres tons of worries and bad things to point out. many of the negative aspects also get discussed ad nauseum because CiG doesnt adress any of them so they relaim open topics while many of intially "good" aspects soon are discovered to be hot air, unreliable and flat out lies. Of course it seems overhelmingly negative but then pretty much everything coming directly from CiG IS negative, that doesnt make the posters in this thread a "bunch of haters". Most are more then willing to praise where praise is due....theres simply not a lot of it. If we compare CS with other games its because these other games usually are successfully released products which gives us reason for worry. I might not be an "expert" in Alphas or Early Realeses but I do participate in a few EAs and alphas and the behaviour I receive from the devs in terms of information or feedback is a completely DIFFERENT WORLD compared to SC. These other game developers talk with the community in direct feedback meetings, they are capable of giving detailed insight into their work or talk about planned features outlining problems and possible solutions. In short....you actually get INFORMATION when you ask for it (open development). SC isnt anything like it. Its especially bad when Chris Roberts is asked directly, suddenly the stuttering and handwaving come up, all the video formats I ve watched (and consider a waste of time afterwards) are usually bloated with fluff talk and the actual information could ve been reduced to 2 minutes at best.
So...I m not in the SC alpha myself but there are enough reviews available as to whats happening for me to make a judgement based on my own experience. They are intially bad which isnt a problem in itself. Different tastes, different expectations. We should be able to co-exist aside each other but when I make the mistake to post on anything SC related and voice my concern regarding the COMPANY or the development I m not getting replies like
- you missed some information, here have a look
- thats a misinterpretation and heres why
- we see it differently because
(in short....NEUTRAL or even friendly replies)
But a lot of trashtalk, taunts, ridicule and open abuse going completely overboard.
I cant believe that anybody would compare the SCv5 thread to the cesspool that is RSI forums or any random SC related comment section. Because nobody in here acts like the toxic swarm. The mods make a bang job and ensuring everybody is heard and is able to voice his opinion. There is of course some RUBBING and PRODDING which is okay and can even be funny. If you enter here and want to participate you should be prepared to bring more then simple "SC is great" or at least have the sources to back up your claim. And of course be mature enough to handle critique.
I also read this thread for a long time already and always wanted to participate because it was a joy to read some posts being sourced, well thought and written and adressing critical aspects in a mature way.... the way it SHOULD be done but which is all but impossible on the RSI forum where it SHOULD be initially, in CiGs own interest yet the way the company moderates its own forum makes it the abomination it is.
Recently tho there have been a lot of posts on the RSI forum made by SC-fans aka truly believing into the project coming up with sceptical suggestions being swarmed and attacked by the rabid crowd. Suddenly these individuals are not one of them anymore regardless of past posts or actions ingame. Its like watching a frenzy MoB going after blood for whatever reason.IMO the FD forum doesnt hold any of these MoB-types at least not in this thread. I consider all of the people participating here as individuals making up their own mind and not mindlessly bashing SC or defending ED even tho there are more then enough tries to change the topic, dominate the dicussion, derail the thread or simply taunt/troll others.
SC really "should" be the topic of this thread. Fact is that the company itself doesnt give us much of anything positive to discuss yet theres tons of worries and bad things to point out. many of the negative aspects also get discussed ad nauseum because CiG doesnt adress any of them so they relaim open topics while many of intially "good" aspects soon are discovered to be hot air, unreliable and flat out lies. Of course it seems overhelmingly negative but then pretty much everything coming directly from CiG IS negative, that doesnt make the posters in this thread a "bunch of haters". Most are more then willing to praise where praise is due....theres simply not a lot of it. If we compare CS with other games its because these other games usually are successfully released products which gives us reason for worry. I might not be an "expert" in Alphas or Early Realeses but I do participate in a few EAs and alphas and the behaviour I receive from the devs in terms of information or feedback is a completely DIFFERENT WORLD compared to SC. These other game developers talk with the community in direct feedback meetings, they are capable of giving detailed insight into their work or talk about planned features outlining problems and possible solutions. In short....you actually get INFORMATION when you ask for it (open development). SC isnt anything like it. Its especially bad when Chris Roberts is asked directly, suddenly the stuttering and handwaving come up, all the video formats I ve watched (and consider a waste of time afterwards) are usually bloated with fluff talk and the actual information could ve been reduced to 2 minutes at best.
So...I m not in the SC alpha myself but there are enough reviews available as to whats happening for me to make a judgement based on my own experience. They are intially bad which isnt a problem in itself. Different tastes, different expectations. We should be able to co-exist aside each other but when I make the mistake to post on anything SC related and voice my concern regarding the COMPANY or the development I m not getting replies like
- you missed some information, here have a look
- thats a misinterpretation and heres why
- we see it differently because
(in short....NEUTRAL or even friendly replies)
But a lot of trashtalk, taunts, ridicule and open abuse going completely overboard.
I cant believe that anybody would compare the SCv5 thread to the cesspool that is RSI forums or any random SC related comment section. Because nobody in here acts like the toxic swarm. The mods make a bang job and ensuring everybody is heard and is able to voice his opinion. There is of course some RUBBING and PRODDING which is okay and can even be funny. If you enter here and want to participate you should be prepared to bring more then simple "SC is great" or at least have the sources to back up your claim. And of course be mature enough to handle critique.
I also read this thread for a long time already and always wanted to participate because it was a joy to read some posts being sourced, well thought and written and adressing critical aspects in a mature way.... the way it SHOULD be done but which is all but impossible on the RSI forum where it SHOULD be initially, in CiGs own interest yet the way the company moderates its own forum makes it the abomination it is.
You never give anyone nicknames? If I was talking to him directly then I would address him as "Mr Roberts" which is the same level of ettiquete I reserve for anyone I don't personally know. Just so you're clear, I don't have a personal vendetta with the guy, but that doesn't mean I have to worship him. Also, there are no laws or social stigma's governing the use of giving 'pet names' to people and "Crobblers" just sounds funny. If he has a problem with it, then he has my email.
Stop defending their spending, they are over budget by a long way and neither you nor I know why.
Houses are not companies, you know right from the start with houses what the total cost is and plan a budget accordingly with legal counsel (bought my house 18 years ago) and most people when they are starting out do not have the full balance of a house in their bank account so naturally they will need (not want) a loan. If CIG only had 10%, 30% or 50% of the budget then they were not telling anyone and it goes down as another lie to the backers, CR did state that no lenders nor publishers were needed at $20m didn't he?
All things considered, that's in the past, I'm more interested in their more recent monetary fits of dumbness tbh. (The loan at 100m)
I wouldn't make that comparison at all. Neither would I post in the RSI forum: it seems to me like a bear-pit, and dissenting voices get shouted down or censored by the moderators. Amazon's customer reviews work well because Amazon welcomes negative as well as positive feedback on products. RSI seems to think that suppressing the thoughts of those with doubts will help the game.
Agony Aunt has made some reasoned and reasonable posts on the RSI forum and/or the Star Citizen Reddit. His response was to the frequently comical tribalism that ensues are a model of reasoned argument, but I would find it hard to remain that level-headed.
I do not think the RSI forums are representative of Star Citizen backers. I am a backer, but I am afraid to post in them.
Sorry, re-reading I can see how that looks like one of those "template fallacy so you're wrong" type posts. It was meant to be a "this was really interesting when I read it, realised I'm as guilty of it as anyone, wanted to share it far and wide" type thing instead - picked it up in a place that doesn't have much trouble with the former, so I didn't stop to think.
So in short, yeah, it's the tendency to look at your side and see sub-groups that disagree with one another, individual bad actors that you would never agree with but you can't get rid of, smart people, decent folks who don't express themself so well, etc. Then you look at a group that disagrees with you, and you just see a blob that constantly contradicts itself, keeps doing bad things, clearly knows what it's doing because of the occasional smart response, yet can barely express itself in a normal sentence.
I only intended to encourage Sunleader to check they weren't homogenising, before handing out the snark *discomfortingly hyper-realistic smiley face*
Certainly not ALL the backers but it surely is representative of CiG and how they run their business. Forums do need moderation to prosper and enable the surface of creative feedback. Other forums squibbel about minor things bit if they survive (not being drowned out by offensive behaviour) they can bring forth incredible ideas, insights and are overall beneficial to the project itself. I do not feel that the RSI forum offers such an environment nor does CiG WANTS such an evironment (else they have all the power needed to make changes)
Repped for Torquemada quote!
I love how Sunleader will give a long diatribe about game design as though he is some sort of knowledgable authority on the subject, only for Tippis to just calmly eviscerate him seemingly without much effort...and for Sunleader to then promptly ignore Tippis and continue as though no one noticed. [haha]
No sir! It is I who should apologise to you. Your explanation makes sense and is frankly more than the tone of my post deserved.
Regrettably I arrived unwisely at my keyboard "nightcap" in hand in a state of advanced innebriation following an enjoyable evening.
If there's one thing that's guaranteed to trigger me it's not being able to figure out whether I should in fact be triggered or not.
So apologies for any offence caused which whilst intended at the time certainly isn't now.
*slightly sheepish but genuine smiley face*
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Some stats for amount playing and the playtime they put in
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/7435907/#Comment_7435907
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/7435907/#Comment_7435907
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