The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Stormprooter]

Yeah...I know...and sure I agree....but I give up on serious Simulation FM in SC long time ago...just ain´t going to happend,game is build as an arcade....I mean even if you completely remove the manual gimbal aiming,heck even if you "forbid"mouse controls the FM still going to suck for hotas.....So at least and I said this already CIG should allow us to play the game from 3PV as any "arcadish"or"simish"(not sim)game supposed to be played.......Freelancer 2.0.....

I find the FM "almost" OK for HOTAS now (just my opinion), the accelerations are far too high though - it could be greatly improved. I'm not after a full-on sim experience (though de-coupled mode could be closer to that, like assist off in ED), I just want to be engaged by it all and have fun.

- - - Updated - - -

Because Genuine Roberts has yet to invent pitch and yaw, so there is nothing to take inspiration from yet

Ain't that the truth!

(out of rep I'm afraid so a virtual +1 to both)

 

[ianw]

Here's an midly interesting observation regarding the SC subreddit; The mods have styled it to remove the "Controversial" thread category that exists by default. If you visit with your browser you'll see the Hot, New, Rising, Top, Promoted categories, but the Controversial category is nowhere to be seen. Of course you can still get to it, just tack /controversial onto the end of the URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/controversial/?sort=controversial&t=month

Regarding CE vs LY. Lumberyard IS CryEngine.

The only real difference is AWS integration and changes focused on the tooling side. LY is just as crud as CE when it comes to making multiplayer games.

The switch from CE to LY was done for AWS alone. Switching probably let them host servers for a cheaper price as a favor for promoting LY.

Switching has had zero impact on bugs, glitches and network capabilities. It's an AWS thing and that's it.

I thought I saw something about a patching system being tossed in with LY?

Or does that not work with their customised whatever it is without further work?

 

[Tippis]

I thought I saw something about a patching system being tossed in with LY?

Or does that not work with their customised whatever it is without further work?

Wasn't that just offering a different CDN for the patch content?

 

[ianw]

Wasn't that just offering a different CDN for the patch content?

I haven't the faintest idea tbh - I just remember it being on a list of stuff that someone put up - and I couldn't think of anything esle to say tbh.

(also - what's a CDN?)

Just as an FYI it wouldn't be a good idea to confuse me with someone who knows what they're on about regarding these matters!

 

[thorn-]

Regarding the SC cheating no refund issue I can't see even CIG being that stupid to try and use cheating as a wholesale means of avoiding refunds for high value backers - if that's what people are suggesting.

Some people here seem to be suggesting it, but it's a rather odd train to jump on. I fail to see how falsely banning high-dollar donors, under the guise of "no cheating allowed", would be seen as a winning strategy for future revenue. To imply that's CR's plan is just... weird. Mankind has also made a trip to the moon, but that doesn't stop some people from being convinced beyond any doubt that the whole thing was done on a soundstage in Hollywood.

We could debate if combat logging is cheating. But that isn't the point we're debating. And trying to use CL and poor internet connections as an example of "we need leniency at times" is just a false equivalence.

I'm sure some of you have seen clips of Elite CMDRs using perma-shields on YouTube. There's no doubt such hacks exist, and that people use them. There's nothing wrong with banning a player when clear evidence is submitted of cheating.

The notable cheats I've seen in SC were similarly obvious. Standing in one spot on a map, and killing the entire playbase by shooting through walls... while taking no damage themselves.

I don't care if you donated $50, or $5000. If you install a cheat and use it, you should be banned with no refund. Maybe they thought it was cute, or good for some lulz, or whatever. Who knows. But CIG has a right to kick you out, just as Frontier does. It's not about scamming a donor, but about trying to keep the game free of cheating. I'm sort of amazed that anyone would argue against it.

 

[Tippis]

I haven't the faintest idea tbh - I just remember it being on a list of stuff that someone put up - and I couldn't think of anything esle to say tbh.

(also - what's a CDN?)

Just as an FYI it wouldn't be a good idea to confuse me with someone who knows what they're on about regarding these matters!

Content Delivery Network — the kind of distributed caches that all large-volume download spots use these days to provide good bandwidth and short routing for the downloaders. It's easier (and vastly cheaper) for Amazon or Google or Akamai to just move stuff around to their local servers, and then have clients download from those, than to have everyone in the world connect to some central server in lower Wisconsin (or wherever).

I don't care if you donated $50, or $5000. If you install a cheat and use it, you should be banned with no refund. Maybe they thought it was cute, or good for some lulz, or whatever. Who knows. But CIG has a right to kick you out, just as Frontier does. It's not about scamming a donor, but about trying to keep the game free of cheating. I'm sort of amazed that anyone would argue against it.

The argument against it is very simple: they're in alpha. Figuring out the gaps and glitches and exploits are part of the process and crucial to hardening the client to what will happen when it is released. And it's not like the cheating matters anyway at this point since there is nothing to lose or to gain for either party. It can almost only help them right now to bash the code around that way.

Frontier is not a good comparison since their game is out, and they have an actual active game world to protect, unlike CIG.

 

[MTBFritz]

I don't care if you donated $50, or $5000. If you install a cheat and use it, you should be banned with no refund.

Apart from the "alpha" argument which I agree with considering the amount of money involved which can be viewed as small fortunes CiG "should" implement a strike system making people aware that they ve been caught, giving them a chance to come clean. Imagine just fooling around not "seriously cheating" and suddenly 12 THOUSAND dollars are down the drain? I have no pity with hackers but even I think thats a tad too extreme. Give em 2 or 3 warnings and THEN its bye-bye account with no refund. They had their chance then.

 

[Maruun]

Content Delivery Network — the kind of distributed caches that all large-volume download spots use these days to provide good bandwidth and short routing for the downloaders. It's easier (and vastly cheaper) for Amazon or Google or Akamai to just move stuff around to their local servers, and then have clients download from those, than to have everyone in the world connect to some central server in lower Wisconsin (or wherever).



The argument against it is very simple: they're in alpha. Figuring out the gaps and glitches and exploits are part of the process and crucial to hardening the client to what will happen when it is released. And it's not like the cheating matters anyway at this point since there is nothing to lose or to gain for either party. It can almost only help them right now to bash the code around that way.

Frontier is not a good comparison since their game is out, and they have an actual active game world to protect, unlike CIG.

I actually remember in the beta of ED and the money cheats came that FD acknowledged them and i think even asked the community in beta to look for those exploit/hack and reporting them. Of course after the game was official release cheating was bannable but alpha/beta was "alright".

 

[McGlashan]

You can't moan about "keeping the game free of cheating" when there is no game. That would imply there are win/lose conditions and game loops and mechanics to be disrupted.

Another interesting case will be exploits. I seem to recall the TOS mentions not abusing game flaws or something, but it's much harder to argue that making a ton of virtual money by using some trick the devs didn't foresee is a ban-able / non-refundable offence, even though they have just as much potential to unbalance the economy and lead to everyone flying capital ships within days of release. And there's zero chance there won't be any exploits. Again, only in the case that an actual game is delivered.

 

[Kerrash]

I have been a victim of hacks in SM already, first match in fact; but at this stage of development I cannot condone outright bans.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I have been a victim of hacks in SM already, first match in fact; but at this stage of development I cannot condone outright bans.

I am inclined to agree. You can give temp bans, but not full bans with refusal to refund. Not at this stage.

 

[ianw]

Some people here seem to be suggesting it, but it's a rather odd train to jump on. I fail to see how falsely banning high-dollar donors, under the guise of "no cheating allowed", would be seen as a winning strategy for future revenue. To imply that's CR's plan is just... weird. Mankind has also made a trip to the moon, but that doesn't stop some people from being convinced beyond any doubt that the whole thing was done on a soundstage in Hollywood.

We could debate if combat logging is cheating. But that isn't the point we're debating. And trying to use CL and poor internet connections as an example of "we need leniency at times" is just a false equivalence.

I'm sure some of you have seen clips of Elite CMDRs using perma-shields on YouTube. There's no doubt such hacks exist, and that people use them. There's nothing wrong with banning a player when clear evidence is submitted of cheating.

The notable cheats I've seen in SC were similarly obvious. Standing in one spot on a map, and killing the entire playbase by shooting through walls... while taking no damage themselves.

I don't care if you donated $50, or $5000. If you install a cheat and use it, you should be banned with no refund. Maybe they thought it was cute, or good for some lulz, or whatever. Who knows. But CIG has a right to kick you out, just as Frontier does. It's not about scamming a donor, but about trying to keep the game free of cheating. I'm sort of amazed that anyone would argue against it.

I'm not debating the cheating itself. The point I was making is that I doubt CIG would defend a court case brought against them if a high value backer got banned for cheating and decide to fight it out in court (or an any value backer who could be bothered to take it that far). Given all the dates missed and unfulfilled promises/goals that might get brought up I doubt CIG would weant all that coming out in public. Especially as others have said that the "game" is still meant to be pre-alpha or alpha or whatever it's meant to be right now.

I think they tried to get a quick PR win off the back of people not liking cheating - I don't think that's a smart move at this point.

Content Delivery Network — the kind of distributed caches that all large-volume download spots use these days to provide good bandwidth and short routing for the downloaders. It's easier (and vastly cheaper) for Amazon or Google or Akamai to just move stuff around to their local servers, and then have clients download from those, than to have everyone in the world connect to some central server in lower Wisconsin (or wherever).

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Kerrash]

...I doubt CIG would defend a court case brought against them if a high value backer got banned for cheating and decide to fight it out in court ...

To be fair, if that user has agreed to the EULA, CiG could probably do whatever they want; regardless of it is a jerky move

 

[ianw]

To be fair, if that user has agreed to the EULA, CiG could probably do whatever they want; regardless of it is a jerky move

Oh I'm sure they think they could - but who knows - maybe the T&C's would be judged to be unreasonable/unenforceable.

No doubt legal eagles would argue about it till the cows come home.

I just don't think they'd follow through if someone called their bluff - all hypothetical of course.

 

[Monk]

Especially after all those announcements that it'd be absolutely nothing like Freelancer. No, nope, not at all, honest guv!

What was it that everyones favorite Famous Actor and Developer had to say? Was it maybe something like this?

One broken promise I'm actually happy about. I like the casual gameplay that goes with mouse flight...sure it isn't gritty, visceral and rewarding but it is easy and fun. I've given up looking for a serious sim from CIG, that boat sailed years ago.

If I want skill based dogfighting, well, we already have that.

 

[Komemiute]

Hmm, it's funny how, if you were a known Something Awful "Goon" or Derek Smart mentioning the continued lack of any SQ42 gameplay or footage during the last year or so, their words would be immediately dismissed as "FUD", "hating" etc, and that all mention of the troubles that Chris Roberts' made games have had in the past is either totally ignored, or labelled as being made up to put Roberts' lifetime achievements in the field of computer games down. Any and all articles of the like, if appearing on Reddit, would be immediately downvoted into oblivion and folks would move on.

But following the complete no show yet *again* of Squadron 42 in the whole of 2016, despite CIG repeatedly telling backers and anybody who would listen that it was "just around the corner", we're now starting to see committed Star Citizens emerging into the light, starting to question exactly what is going behind the scenes, and all of a sudden they seem to be saying the same sort of things that the "Goons" and DS were saying a year ago, even going so far as to pull up more troubling parts of Chris Roberts' game production past (Freelancer) to draw direct parallels to what is happening with Squadron 42 (and on a larger scale, Star Citizen) as a whole.

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/DKNEPwi.jpg

Whowouldathunkit eh?

Oh WOW! NOW they see it?
That's a late wake up! I know hindsight is the female companion for a dog, but still... c'mon. No shame these people!

 

[dayrth]

The notable cheats I've seen in SC were similarly obvious. Standing in one spot on a map, and killing the entire playbase by shooting through walls... while taking no damage themselves.

I don't care if you donated $50, or $5000. If you install a cheat and use it, you should be banned with no refund. Maybe they thought it was cute, or good for some lulz, or whatever. Who knows. But CIG has a right to kick you out, just as Frontier does. It's not about scamming a donor, but about trying to keep the game free of cheating. I'm sort of amazed that anyone would argue against it.

I absolutely agree. For a released game, but surely in an alpha you want people trying to hack the game and reporting how they did it so you can guard against cheating when it goes live.


Edit: If I had bothered to read on before posting I would have seen that EVERYONE had already said this, so rep all round

 

[Komemiute]

I absolutely agree. For a released game, but surely in an alpha you want people trying to hack the game and reporting how they did it so you can guard against cheating when it goes live.

OMFGWTFBBQ! The only time SC supporters could use the "It's still an ALPHA!" to their advantage... Will anyone ever turn the brain on, eventually?!

 

[Tippis]

Speaking of alpha brokenness, and SQ42 delivery, and since AGDQ is going on at the moment…

…I wonder how quickly SQ42 will be speedrun. I'm envisioning some truly Bethesda-level scripting glitches here that would let you skip entire missions with some well-timed clipping errors, bringing the total play time down to 10 minutes. Assuming Chris allows people to skip his magnum opus, i.e. the many days worth of mocapped cutscenes.

 

[BurnyBurns]

Assuming Chris allows people to skip his magnum opus, i.e. the many days worth of mocapped cutscenes.

Only on second playthrough using a <use> prompt. Hard crashes to desktop will be unskippable however.

Do they count towards playthrough time?