The Star Citizen Thread v5

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What if those new devs say that it just can't be done too?? Then what do you do?

Be interesting to see if the staffing figures rise after this round.

I would say there is very little that CIG have promised that they cannot - in theory at least - deliver upon.
The question is at what cost, in time and money.

Having a publisher would mean that CIG would have someone looking over their shoulder asking them questions such as "Is it really important to have the bullets emerge from the gun barrel instead of this tried and tested solution when your proposal would take X man hours at $Y dollars each and BTW, we really would like to get the game released this year".

But without that pressure, they are fairly free to spend whatever amount of time needed to "make it right". So long as the funding holds up that is.
 
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You know - seeing as I'm at a bit of a loose end these days - I think I might actually apply :D

I look forward to you reports Agent Asp.

Sorry, there's never going to be a vacancy to fill lulzbuckets.

Not even in the mocap studio?

Would love to be a fly on the wall over at the recruitment office in HR.

I wonder, are they not getting applicants for those positions?

Or

Are they getting applicants and rejecting them for not being qualified?

Or

Are they getting applicants, having interviews and then the applicant is like "uhh, no thanks" after? (interviews for experienced devs are the opposite of a normal interview. The hiring manager is being interviewed by the applicant)

Nah, they're an industry wide joke by now. The only people not laughing are SC backers.
 
But without that pressure, they are fairly free to spend whatever amount of time needed to "make it right". So long as the funding holds up that is.

Of course it's by no means certain that CIG are capable of "making it right", even given all the time and money in the world. Roberts ultimately failed to make Freelancer "right", hasn't produced a game since, and CIG have no track record at all. And 2.6, representing five years of development and however much of the $140m they've already spent, doesn't inspire much confidence either.
 
Of course it's by no means certain that CIG are capable of "making it right", even given all the time and money in the world. Roberts ultimately failed to make Freelancer "right", hasn't produced a game since, and CIG have no track record at all. And 2.6, representing five years of development and however much of the $140m they've already spent, doesn't inspire much confidence either.

In Chris Roberts defence, he was removed from that because "making it right" would take too long, and cost too much.
If he had been given the time and money, he very likely could have indeed "made it right". It is also possible he might still be working on it.

Chris Roberts CAN deliver the game he has promised. That won't be the game mentioned with Kickstarter. But the expanded, bigger, better game he is promising now.
He and CIG are fully capable of delivering that game.

The problem is that what they are now promising has ballooned so much in scope and size that it is going to take much, much more time and money than CIG initially bargained for. Looking at games of similar or lesser scale and scope - GTA5 and SWTOR - those took established, experienced studios with fully working toolkits 5 or 6 years to develop and cost between $130 and $200 million to develop. Never mind actually marketing the games. CIG would be having a much easier time if they had decided to release the game they had initially promised first...and then expanded it with all their stretch goals.

That's what Elite is doing...they launched with a viable game and are expanding it. It has flaws, and problems, but no one is also holding them to the hype and expectations of a $140 million (and climbing) budget. It has good graphics, great sound and music, and if I personally think it's too soon for the aliens to show up (I'd prefer the human factions to be fleshed out a lot more first) I can't deny the impact of the First Contact and how well it came off.

But as for what CIG have promised....given time, it can be programmed. But time requires money and money requires funding from the backers. And backers require results, even from a Crowdfunded game. But where CIG have made a big mistake - IMO - is to keep hyping expectations. They have a game that will require another 3 years at least to develop, possibly more, but thanks to their mismanagement, their backers want it NOW!!

And disappointed backers who aren't getting their game now are starting to turn their backs on CIG. And some of CIGs actions recently do seem to indicate that they have less money available than they might be comfortable with.

So - can CIG deliver the game? Yes. If they can continue their funding. If they can't, then they'll have to make cuts somewhere, to bring the dream back to reality. And worst case scenario, they won't be able to deliver at all. And of course, even were they to deliver, all the money spent can guarantee that the game will be good or fun. What they have right now shows a certain degree of promise....but it is far from perfect and needs a LOT of improvement.
 
In Chris Roberts defence, he was removed from that because "making it right" would take too long, and cost too much.
If he had been given the time and money, he very likely could have indeed "made it right". It is also possible he might still be working on it.

Work started on Freelancer in 1997, by 1999 Roberts annouced that the game would be available by Fall 2000. At E3 in 2000 Roberts said that the game wasn't going to be ready that year, and that a new release date was published, 2001. By June 2000 Microsoft started talks about buying Digital Anvil. Roberts admitted that his studio was strapped for cash, and would need a massive infusion in order to complete the game. Microsoft bought digital Anvil and scaled back the game, Beta was in 2002 and shipped March 2003.

There was no "making it right" possible here.

Chris Roberts CAN deliver the game he has promised. That won't be the game mentioned with Kickstarter. But the expanded, bigger, better game he is promising now.
He and CIG are fully capable of delivering that game.

Logically we would go off his history of success and failures. His last two major projects he headed ended in disaster for all parties. Add to the fact that he hasn't shipped a game in 20+ years leads me to question your faith.

The problem is that what they are now promising has ballooned so much in scope and size that it is going to take much, much more time and money than CIG initially bargained for. Looking at games of similar or lesser scale and scope - GTA5 and SWTOR - those took established, experienced studios with fully working toolkits 5 or 6 years to develop and cost between $130 and $200 million to develop. Never mind actually marketing the games. CIG would be having a much easier time if they had decided to release the game they had initially promised first...and then expanded it with all their stretch goals.

So your saying it's highly unlikely a game will ship with promised content?

But as for what CIG have promised....given time, it can be programmed. But time requires money and money requires funding from the backers. And backers require results, even from a Crowdfunded game. But where CIG have made a big mistake - IMO - is to keep hyping expectations. They have a game that will require another 3 years at least to develop, possibly more, but thanks to their mismanagement, their backers want it NOW!!

Time is not something they have an unlimited amount of. Sooner or later the the strain of 4 different studios and 350+ staff will drain the piggy bank.

And disappointed backers who aren't getting their game now are starting to turn their backs on CIG. And some of CIGs actions recently do seem to indicate that they have less money available than they might be comfortable with.

I think the actions of CIG/RSI and Roberts has warranted a step back and a critical look at how the past few years have gone.

So - can CIG deliver the game? Yes. If they can continue their funding. If they can't, then they'll have to make cuts somewhere, to bring the dream back to reality. And worst case scenario, they won't be able to deliver at all. And of course, even were they to deliver, all the money spent can guarantee that the game will be good or fun. What they have right now shows a certain degree of promise....but it is far from perfect and needs a LOT of improvement.

After Freelancer was taken away from Roberts the studio still took 3 years to ship the game, and that's with it pretty much bare bones. The faith you have in this project is admirable, however I would suggest a step back and read the history of how we ended up here.

I'm going to assume the highlighted word was supposed to be Can't.
 
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What if those new devs say that it just can't be done too?? Then what do you do?

Then you are not hired :D
If you are already working for CIG, then you are fired ;)
Its simple like that...

If salaries at CIG are very good, devs will not go away..also some people like really hard challenges, even ifs game fails it a very good experience anyway...

Some of them also are SC fanatics and want game to be successful at any cost (working a lot of over hours...), like SC hardcore backers, too.
 
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Chris Roberts CAN deliver the game he has promised. That won't be the game mentioned with Kickstarter. But the expanded, bigger, better game he is promising now.
He and CIG are fully capable of delivering that game.
Only, if he scale down the game and removes a lot of promised features or else its Freelancer all over again.
Since people does not change - CR will never do that....I predict here Freelancer scenario, but I doubt that somebody will buyout CIG, like MS did...
 
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CIG as it stands aren't capable of delivering that game. No one can, because there's no nailed down believable, vetted gameplay loop spec. It is all 'open world sim' statements, they won't work in interactive MMO like world.

And I am not even talking about CIG technical capabilities.
 
Chris Roberts CAN deliver the game he has promised. That won't be the game mentioned with Kickstarter. But the expanded, bigger, better game he is promising now.
He and CIG are fully capable of delivering that game.

Your faith level is over 9000.


Meanwhile CIGs output suggests they aren't on top of things by a long stretch. It starts with something as basic as the "game"'s launcher/patcher being a total mess that downloads obscene amounts of data for relatively small changes and continues with everything else from there. Let's do a two (?) level space CoD FPS clone and release it as a separate mode, shall we? But because we're so good at what we're doing, let's outsourse it, realize it won't fly for undisclosed reasons, throw everything out, try to hush up how we flushed backer money down the drain, downplay it and eventually release a two level CoD space FPS clone more than a year later. Bam. Giant stride towards the promised all-encompassing MMO like space game of forever, no? Chris, The Hype, Roberts himself will just code all the promised cargo, exploration, bounty hunting, faction war, guilds, mining, alien encounter, civil space flight, salvaging, crafting, giant alien boss monsters and whatnot mechanics over the next weekend, will he? Don't forget the cocktail mixing mini game! While it took the alleged 300 or so people on the project all of 2016 to add space man dress up and a poor man's CoD clone to the alpha and not get any demonstrable Squadron 42 gameplay going.

If we are to project from what they have actually done in what time with their budget, the picture only gets worse.
 
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If we are to project from what they have actually done in what time with their budget, the picture only gets worse.

Perhaps better known for his oddball “leak” posts, The Agent actually made a pretty good perspective post:

The Agent said:
from the time its taken to get SC into its current alpha state and if SC is still in alpha this year
• Grand Theft Auto V was released (2013)
• Red Dead Redemption 2 will be released (2017)

• Mass Effect 3 was released (2012)
• Mass Effect Andromeda will be released (2017)

• World of WarCraft: Mists of Pandaria was released (2012)
• HearthStone was released (2014)
• World of WarCraft: Warlords of Draenor was released (2014)
• Heroes of the Storm was released (2015)
• World of WarCraft: Legion was released (2016)
• Overwatch was released (2016)

• Elite: Dangerous was released (2014)
• Elite: Dangerous Horizons was released (2015)
• Elite: Dangerous Next Season will release (2017)

• Call of Duty: Black Ops II was released (2012)
• Call of Duty: Ghosts was released (2013)
• Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare was released (2014)
• Call of Duty: Black Ops III was released (2015)
• Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare was released (2016)
• Another Call of Duty will release (2017)

• Battlefield 4 was released (2013)
• Battlefront was released (2015)
• Battlefield: Hardline was released (2015)
• Battlefield 1 was released (2016)

• Dishonored was released (2012)
• Dishonored 2 was released (2016)

• Assassin's Creed III was released (2012)
• Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag was released (2013)
• Assassin's Creed Rogue was released (2014)
• Assassin's Creed Unity was released (2014)
• Assassin's Creed Syndicate was released (2015)
• Assassin's Creed Working Title will release (2017)

• Titanfall was released (2014)
• Titanfall 2 was released (2016)

• Nintendo Wii U was released (2012)
• Nintendo Switch will release (2017)
Yes, yes, yes. Big publishers, huge teams, yadda yadda. The thing is, CIG is not a small team either, and by now, the funding they've accumulated for SC and SQ42 is only rivalled by one game on that list.
 
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Perhaps better known for his oddball “leak” posts, The Agent actually made a pretty good perspective post:


Yes, yes, yes. Big publishers, huge teams, yadda yadda. The thing is, CIG is not a small team either, and by now, the funding they've accumulated for SC and SQ42 is only rivalled by one game on that list.

It's almost as if publishers have discovered some secret means of getting things done!
 
It's almost as if publishers have discovered some secret means of getting things done!

Could've something to do with not giving a buffoon, sorry, visionary as much money as they want and letting them run wild without binding them to any such nasty things as roadmaps, milestones, timelines or budget limits, couldn't it?

As a result however, none of those games is the game of our wildest and wettest space man fantasies! They're rushed, imperfect, nasty pieces of publisher controlled garbage. If only all those teams had had unlimited budget and time, all of those games would've been soooo much better. And hardly out by now, but that's beside the point. :p (As for the mentioned hardware: looking forward to the switch presentation tomorrow ;) )
 
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It's almost as if publishers have discovered some secret means of getting things done!

OohBurn.gif
 
Since people does not change - CR will never do that....I predict here Freelancer scenario, but I doubt that somebody will buyout CIG, like MS did...

Well, depending on the state, they might. If things get bad enough, CR might be forced to sell the IP and all rights at fire sale prices.

That would be a good moment for an investor to jump in, with less obligations, get an MVP out of the door with minimal mechanics, and since the backers are so invested, they could be milked heavily with lots of P2W elements in game on order to recover costs.

Could be quite profitable.
 
Could be quite profitable.

Could be the most realistic scenario to see Star Citizen released, if ever their funding slows down. Maybe they only need to pull a couple more of their Citiencon '16 and and of year stream '16s spectacles, to gamble general backer godwill, who knows?
 
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