The Star Citizen Thread v5

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Where does the talk of diffusion come from suddenly? From CIG? Do they claim to "model" the diffusion of gases?

From Rolan's excellent January 2017 summary a few pages back. It seems to be something server-related:

"Backend Services

Refactoring the backend infrastructure to new architecture being labelled as Diffusion which improves scalability."

So the backend infrastructure has been Refactored to Diffusion. Makes sense. All back-ends should feature diffusion once they have been refactored, shouldn't they?

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Actually, I can have a go at translating CIG-Speak into English:

Diffusion: Distributed server infrastructure featuring geographical and ping-based instancing.
Refactoring: Rewriting something because it wasn't designed right in the first place, so needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.
 
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You got it wrong. It's not a backend service, it's back-end service.

Diffusion: back-end service for backers. Because we love back-ending your money.
 
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However there are some of what CIG did that FD could take a note of. Some of the graphic designers are pretty talented, and it could be nice to capture them into the FD dimension.

CIG also seem to the typical have the typical "AAA" focus on visuals. I wouldn't be surprised, if their design department dwarfed the group of employees working on visual assets at Frontier. Elite is very much a B-tier game in production values.

Luckily for us, the sound design does not require a legion of workforce and Frontier kills it. Edit: And also luckily for us, on terms of visuals Frontier still does a solid job with what they have. It's in the game design department where they fail a lot.
 
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Soon CIG will invent loadbalancing. After that they might invent dynamically spinning up instances based on overall player number trends and time of day.

Maybe in ten years, they'll have invented most of the things that are standard in the industry today.

The only problem with this is that by then, the rest of the industry will be ten years ahead of CIG.

Which again i could excuse, were it not for their marketing talking everything up as groundbreaking.
 
Soon CIG will invent loadbalancing. After that they might invent dynamically spinning up instances based on overall player number trends and time of day.

They get this for free by moving to AWS.

Now they just need to write the game, which if I recall correctly, is the 1942-45 War in the Pacific transposed 1,000 years into the future and set in space. Which is pretty ground-breaking, if you think about it.
 
Now they just need to write the game, which if I recall correctly, is the 1942-45 War in the Pacific transposed 1,000 years into the future and set in space. Which is pretty ground-breaking, if you think about it.

I thought it was more of the Punic Wars or — more literally — the Vandals' sacking of Rome. In space.

WWII in space has happened almost yearly since 1977… :p
 
Now they just need to write the game, which if I recall correctly, is the 1942-45 War in the Pacific transposed 1,000 years into the future and set in space. Which is pretty ground-breaking, if you think about it.

If that is their intent, they will need to do extensive historical research. I recommend this definitive documentary on the subject:
[video=youtube;WlYEqXVJaIg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlYEqXVJaIg[/video]
 
From Rolan's excellent January 2017 summary a few pages back. It seems to be something server-related:

"Backend Services

Refactoring the backend infrastructure to new architecture being labelled as Diffusion which improves scalability."

So the backend infrastructure has been Refactored to Diffusion. Makes sense. All back-ends should feature diffusion once they have been refactored, shouldn't they?

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Actually, I can have a go at translating CIG-Speak into English:

Diffusion: Distributed server infrastructure featuring geographical and ping-based instancing.
Refactoring: Rewriting something because it wasn't designed right in the first place, so needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

Oh, ok... what a weird name for that.
And I assumed this has to do with how they handle oxygen supply etc. because CR fidelity and stuff.

Star Citizen: Diffusion - We build entropy
 
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dsmart

Banned
#3
One hundred forty
In millions of dollars
Where has it all gone?

That's the 140 million dollar question. It's all been wasted. I don't know any dev who, 6 years later, looks at this and doesn't wonder. There is still no cohesive game.

Heck, I just have to say it, I started designing LoD in late 2009 after shipping TWO games that year; both of which cost less than $2m to make. By 2011 we were in full swing, had working fps, space, and planets - all from a custom prototype engine. We scrapped the engine when it became clear we were going to be reinventing the wheel. Then I licensed a slew of middleware, and we ported everything over in less than six months. We're about to port the underlying engine to UE4, which is a 4-6 month effort, but which would give us back our console path which we lost due to Havok's decision. And our team never grew above 16, and my expense, even with the $1.2m that the port is going to cost, will still be under $15m by release. On 3 platforms.

500 people at peak (350+ as of Nov 2016), $142m, 6 years. All they have is a tech framework. And from what we can now tell, neither game is going to be finished in 2017.

The money is gone, and the project is a total loss.
 
It is impossible to tell their intentions or motivations. The only thing that is clear is that they are not transparent about any important company-internals especially the actual production of the software and the current state of progress. Exactly this makes it seem suspicious for a so-called open development project. If you plan to produce something until a certain date, but you were not able to, it would be the easiest thing to make clear where the problem is and what has to be done to finish the job (see the development of Kerbal Space Program that was not 100% transparent, especially regarding the bad work conditions at that company, but gave actual insights into the production of the software).

Now they fool their fans by releasing a schedule report that carries no meaningful informations nor makes the longterm plan for this project transparent in any way and they focus their marketing material on all the less important side aspects of the game, so the elephant in the room (when will they release the final product) is not being touched and it is impossible to assume that this is not done by purpose which makes it suspicious again. They are very good in being vague enough in everything they say, symbolically charming their fans and create a pleasent image of their company (and its personalities) to the point that it is marketed as a revolution in the gaming industry that all that does not matter too much for the fans.

This cannot continue, I noticed some of the entries in the RSI forums, most avid defenders have 5000+ posts. They are more concerned with defending their dream rather facing reality. Not playing the game for sure, maybe it's a traceable flaw in human beans. I did mean to say beans.

What would I do with 140 mil, buy a yacht and have a non accepted reference to mammory glands emblazoned on it. Hold on, someones done that : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefri_Bolkiah,_Prince_of_Brunei

Please dont get me confused with a Jeremy Clarke type of "iconoclast", guy's a and so are his mates.
 
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I started designing LoD in late 2009....

By 2011 we were in full swing, had working fps, space, and planets - all from a custom prototype engine. We scrapped the engine ... even with the $1.2m that the port is going to cost, will still be under $15m by release.

The animation, mechanics, shading of SC is already light years ahead of LoD. it's obvious why SC is costing more than $15 Mil and taking longer than 2 years.
 
The animation, mechanics, shading of SC is already light years ahead of LoD. it's obvious why SC is costing more than $15 Mil and taking longer than 2 years.

Wow... Reduced to comparing Star Citizen with LoD now.

Good work Thorn! :)

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Over on the SA forums, forum member "The_Titanic" wrote a very prescient, well thought out and carefully considered effort post that pretty much sums up the current predicament that CIG and those backing the "game" find themselves in.

Written by SA poster The_Titanic

This is a great statement! Especially the part about being better than a "professional".

I, like apparently many others here, work in real actual software development. It's this professional, real work experience, not pretend armchair "lol video game development" bull, that has lead myself and countless others to the same conclusion about CIG and Star Citizen.

I keep getting this feeling that the guys really really fighting hard to convince people that CIG is perfect and there are no problems are people that haven't worked much. Even basic jobs at the bare minimum you get to learn "good" vs "bad" leadership types and habits, and can take this knowledge and see what other people are doing.

As for actual developers... well, they haven't met a single milestone, they are years into the project with virtually nothing to show for it, no vertical slice, mismanagement of basic priorities on what order to work on the components, all we hear is "what we think we are going to do is...", and probably worst of all they've thrown away their schedules and and already blown past their release dates by very huge margins.

You can say "haha that Chris Roberts is just sooo bad with dates," until you're blue in the face.

He's also bad with keeping on track and managing expectations. "Haha such a kidder wants to do everything."

He also is bad with releasing quality products for what he does put out. "He only releases the best... uh... except for everything so far..."

He also can't release on time. "Oh but 3.0 is really happening because uh..."

He also never releases what he says will be released. "3.0 won't just be more poo poo bug fixes, it will totally be a game changer like patch uh... um... that one patch."

Good luck with thinking that everybody else is just stupid, as opposed to seeing reality for what it is. No amount of good intentions will save this game from being hugely beneath its promises. No amount of claiming the whole world "doesn't get it" will suddenly make CIG be a competent game studio. Just keep on ignoring professional opinions in favor of crazy and senseless "well they're dumb! Their goonies and... dumb!"

I'd love to see Star Citizen succeed like anybody else. You read off the huge laundry list of promises and it sounds too good to be true. And you know what? It is. It's never going to be 1/10 of its promises. Or are you still loving stupid enough to think you're going to be playing literal Command and Conquer from the bridge of your fully manned carrier while giving orders to hundreds of players in massive fleet battles while somebody is mixing you a Fuzzy Roberts and somebody else is mining in the cave of a sandworm while sneaking past tusken raiders, all in seamless twitch based MMO gameplay the likes of which never existed because the networked computers can't currently support it fast enough? And that's not even a tiny loving ounce of what's been promised.

It's not a case of "nobody tried to be this ambitious before so get out of the way". It's a case where somebody who doesn't understand reality is thinking they can reinvent how gaming is handled who doesn't even have a John Carmack on staff, much less a CEO who is aware of the past 15 years of advancements.

And no, the loving <12 player arena shooter is not groundwork for an MMO. That's not how an MMO is built at all. You don't just keep fighting to add another player slot in your poo poo server before it suddenly turns into a 100+ player simultaneous MMO game. Everything they are working on right now, outside of animation and models and concepts, is totally worthless to the end goal MMO game. Even basic stuff like shooting a weapon is going to be totally different between an MMO and a set player server based arena game.

Yes, that pretty much means Star Citizen hasn't even begun development yet. Sorry.

But what has begun development and may be nearly complete is the MVP which will not be an MMO. Your wasted money on ships will not make you the next Eve superhero. It will make you king of your ten player server instance. Have fun with that.

Good luck fighting for the impossible, friend!
 
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Derek made the comparison; I simply replied to it.

I find comparing the two to be rather hilarious.

It is. Compared to LoD, based on budget and manpower alone, SC should be so immensely far ahead in its development, and it's pretty hilarious how comparatively little they've managed to do in spite of having that many more resources at their disposal.
 
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…and?
Also, what mechanics?

Yeah, was wondering the same. "Its alpga, mechanics come later!", right? If the mechanics are indeed in the PU, than Thorn is correct and it is hilarious. And sad. And if there are no mechanics yet, the comparison isalso hilarious, and sad.

But we're now at "the best awesomest game ever has better shaders than LoD, and for only 140 million!"
 
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