The Star Citizen Thread v5

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Then explain to me exactly how writing Dec, instead of Aug (which is in the video), reduces the credibility and/or impact of what I wrote.

Your credibility isn't reduced, per se. You have very little on this matter to begin with. Credibility is something that you have yet to build, in my opinion.

Your post, which highlighted an incorrect fact, did nothing to increase your credibility. You stated how hilarious was that CR said "coming in December" - and were saying he said it in December. But he said it 5 months earlier.

Many things can change in 5 months. Obviously 3.0 was not released; no one is disputing that in the first place. That fact isn't being argued.

So all I can glean from your post is that you were taking yet another opportunity to say "look at how foolish CR is", yet the actual facts of when the video was posted didn't help you with the lulz this time around. Perhaps Chris isn't the only software developer that has an issue with calendars.
 
Your credibility isn't reduced, per se. You have very little on this matter to begin with. Credibility is something that you have yet to build, in my opinion.

Your post, which highlighted an incorrect fact, did nothing to increase your credibility. You stated how hilarious was that CR said "coming in December" - and were saying he said it in December. But he said it 5 months earlier.

Many things can change in 5 months. Obviously 3.0 was not released; no one is disputing that in the first place. That fact isn't being argued.

So all I can glean from your post is that you were taking yet another opportunity to say "look at how foolish CR is", yet the actual facts of when the video was posted didn't help you with the lulz this time around. Perhaps Chris isn't the only software developer that has an issue with calendars.

So what do you think about the change of deadline from 'within five months' to, six months later, 'maybe this year'? Because that is the topic, not your personal opinion of other people here.
 
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dsmart

Banned
Your credibility isn't reduced, per se. You have very little on this matter to begin with. Credibility is something that you have yet to build, in my opinion.

Your post, which highlighted an incorrect fact, did nothing to increase your credibility. You stated how hilarious was that CR said "coming in December" - and were saying he said it in December. But he said it 5 months earlier.

Many things can change in 5 months. Obviously 3.0 was not released; no one is disputing that in the first place. That fact isn't being argued.

So all I can glean from your post is that you were taking yet another opportunity to say "look at how foolish CR is", yet the actual facts of when the video was posted didn't help you with the lulz this time around. Perhaps Chris isn't the only software developer that has an issue with calendars.

I know you guys love to play mind games, and with those who have the patience for that. Then when you don't get your own way, you go over to r/ds and complain, while badmouthing the mods here.

I don't have time for that; so I will end this now.

The "credibility" comment I wrote was about the statement. It said so clearly. But you - again - took the opportunity to make a personal attack and which had no basis in the discussion.

For the record, he made that statement in Aug. That was 4 months ahead of the date he stated, and six months to today's date.

Use all the semantics and deflection you want, but none of that will change the facts of what he said, nor when he said it. He lied. And that's an actual fact.

Nobody was "arguing" about anything. You were. I was responding to a post by Tippis, about the 3.0 timeline; and for which I posted/stated facts. Instead of addressing them, you decided to make an issue about an irrelevant and inconsequential date stamp, as if somehow that takes away anything from the information as presented. It's the same deflection you all use when you find yourself at a loss and can't fashion a worthy defense. So you attack. As you are now doing yet again.

As you have nothing worthy of note, let alone of any interest to me, you are now blocked.
 
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So all I can glean from your post is that you were taking yet another opportunity to say "look at how foolish CR is", yet the actual facts of when the video was posted didn't help you with the lulz this time around. Perhaps Chris isn't the only software developer that has an issue with calendars.

I wouldn't sweat it - we all remember that promise of 3.0 coming by december, I just assumed it was a typo. We've all made mistakes.

So what do you reckon? How do you go from 2.6 soon and 3.0 in Dec to just starting planning out 3.0 in January? That's not the best managed situation wouldn't you agree?
 

dsmart

Banned
I wouldn't sweat it - we all remember that promise of 3.0 coming by december, I just assumed it was a typo. We've all made mistakes.

So what do you reckon? How do you go from 2.6 soon and 3.0 in Dec to just starting planning out 3.0 in January? That's not the best managed situation wouldn't you agree?

Funny thing is that it wasn't even so much as getting the date incorrect, but that I inserted it, but forgot to correct it. The intended statement was something along the lines of "That time in 2016 when...". But in between digging up the links, copying and pasting the excerpts etc, I missed the edit which would have removed the month from that part, as it already appeared where it needed to be.
 
I think I see where we see things differently. Spore and NMS are heavily restricted PG systems with very big building blocks. They are not alien, they are alternative earths. The reason it is so restrictive is that the alternative is truly alien life that makes no sense. 'Alien' doesn't equal 'random weirdness', or at least not to me. Creating truly alien Vanduul that are believable when examined is just not something PG is very good at at this time. Or at least, I am unfamiliar with any system that can do it.

Fair enough. Also, it's worth pointing out that the use of Spore as an example is more to illustrate one method in which you can use PG to create (semi)sensible lifeforms: by step-by-step evolution. By doing so, it bypasses that whole “restrictive” issue: yes, each iteration may have very strict rules, but the final result does not. Unsurprisingly, really, since that's pretty much how evolution actually explains complexity.

And again, bear in mind, that such a system would more likely be used for the game's equivalent of all those water-, ammonia-, or carbon-based life-forms that show up on your planetary scan as opposed to any kind of fully rigged alien that you'd interact with. Spore shows that you can still maintain some of the animation control that would be absolutely necessary for such an alien, even as you start to tack on all kinds of dangly bits, but proper hero creatures are indeed still best left for designers and animators (and mocappers — this is Chris we're ultimately talking about after all) to do.
 
Are CIG shilling glassdoor, or are the people there just so indoctrinated?

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews...utm_campaign=watch-n&utm_content=wat-n-review

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Fidelity, immersion, emergent.... Its almost like it was written by someone from marketing.
 
I'm sure that he re posted the same post from his Dev account not because is what he as a dev should do when he talks about the game in the official forums answering the players/backers/citizens... but just because you tweeted about it.

To be fair I wonder more and more often these days how often CiG or any of its supporters act because of outside triggers. Be it new announcements for different games, DS tweets or blog entries or other forum topics (yes even here). It certainly is not the norm in any "normal" company but I think its possible that Star Citizen is in full maintanance and damage control mode at the moment judging their current actions. That would include monitoring other sites and regular backer views / reactions in order to "keep the stream flowing".

Personally I dont take Mr Smarts tweets or blogs at face value but he does a good job (as do many in this thread btw) to point to irregularities within the project which I then can focus on, checking via my own options in order to come to a conclusion. That I wouldnt put it past CiG to act in this manner (the more rabid pro-fans do it anyway) by now is bad in itself and only shows how far my view on SC degenerated over time. I certainly started out as hopefull as most backers.

So the problem isn't that you gave the wrong date, thus completely skewing your punchline. The problem is that I pointed it out.

Him given the wrong date isnt important at all as it might be a typo and doesnt change the context nor render his statement invalid. The important bit (which you continously opt to ignore for whatever reason) is that 3.0 still isnt available nor in all probabiliby will be available in 2017 even tho it was promised for dec 2016. You keeping to distract in this manner speaks for itself tho despite numerous attempts to redirect your focus. Your attempt to discredit DS's argument is on par with forum people I came across in the past who concentrate on a grammatical error....mocking and disregarding complete arguments because of a typo...instead of staying on topic.

Many things can change in 5 months. Obviously 3.0 was not released; no one is disputing that in the first place. That fact isn't being argued.

Whats strange in this case is that you are completely "okay" with CiG missing yet another deadline / promise swiping it to the side as a non-problem which is not affecting CiGs credibility at all while DS having his dates wrong makes him a laughing stock. Funny :)

Chris Roberts doesnt need anybody (least of all DS) to make himself look foolish IMO. Nobody forced him in the past to give statements, promises or play his own game on a lifestream you know. This projecting of fault to third parties is worrying to be honest. First triggered by CR in his official denouncement of DS (thats still mind-boggling) which was then picked up by the gullible hordes who now somehow believe that DS is "the enemy". The "joke" in this case is that Mr Smart commands a LOT MORE attention on the internet due to the irrational hate and trolling directed at his person then if he simply was ignored. The continous upbringing of his name and his tweets makes him bigger then he is. Thats also funny :)

If DS really was such an unimportant nuisance people could simply ignore him. Thats probably what I should do with certain posters on this thread as well. It kinda hurts to see people post in such a malicious intent. Or outright disregard whatever they post....that obviously works for "those" people...might be worth a try :D


So your reply to "where is 3.0?" at the moment is "obviously it wasnt released"....

If you would post this with sarcasm I would rep you up and laugh with you for the "lol" moment it gave me but I have the feeling you are completely serious.......



On a different note. Does anybody know what the current SC-meme is? Obviously PG isnt mentioned anymore and currently isnt the focus (who knows btw as CiG doesnt say anything). Make-up battles in starfarers are old-school as well and SM either *BLEEP* hard or is boring by now. I ve seen a lot of highly unrealistic discussions and announcement which act as if item2.0, sticky hands, professions, farming etc are all in the game already. It all hits me more like easing the masses and generating new interest (aka getting more fresh blood) rather then innocent news and topics being discussed. 3.0 is met with silence from CiG and I m confused if all focus is directed at 6.1.2 or not. I thought CiG had several teams working on multiple aspects of the game at the same time? Or was that discovered to be bogus already?

All the new videos I spot about SC are on par with the agressive "google ad" discussions going on as they have one thing in common. They describe ingame features and mechanic as if they are integrated already and working flawlessly and in that manner deceive and outright lie. I realize that a regular "gamer" doing something like this will be perceived as innocent while a company would be uncovered to scam their playerbase. Cant shake the feeling THATS why we see so many of these fan-made promotional vids at the moment ^^ The above mentioned google ad especially went crazy and is discussed a lot on reddit

 
Are CIG shilling glassdoor, or are the people there just so indoctrinated?

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews...utm_campaign=watch-n&utm_content=wat-n-review



Fidelity, immersion, emergent.... Its almost like it was written by someone from marketing.

Also noteworthy is that the employee descriptions dont match with the actual results and quality of the game at the moment. I sometimes wonder if Star Citizen really is the perfect well-going development some people make it out to be and I simply "hang with the wrong crowd". But whenever I sit down and try to clear my mind of the evil hate-drivel that is DS and his drones :D and come up with an opinion of MY OWN by sifting through the available data on the net I come up with "well....WHERE IS IT?" too often in order to acknowlegde CiG with capability and a good game hehe. I m probably too impatient and having no professional experience with game development renders all my opinions void. Well...good thing that I command my own wallet /grins at least I m getting my entertainment cheap :)
 
Sometimes i have the feeling the whole deal with SC is comparable to a room full of people for several hours. Without venting it.

For them everything is fine, for everyone that stepped out of the room for 5 minutes or someone that trys entering the room. Will suddenly smell a destinct odor that will force you to vent the room...and people never leaving it complaining about you opening the windows because its cold.
 
Are CIG shilling glassdoor, or are the people there just so indoctrinated?

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews...utm_campaign=watch-n&utm_content=wat-n-review

Fidelity, immersion, emergent.... Its almost like it was written by someone from marketing.

To put it into perspective, there was something of a review-war going on in the wake of the Escapist episode. There were a number of negative reviews about the company at that point, but when those were brought into the lime-light as part of the general attention to the workplace that followed the Escapist article, those were all suddenly flagged and reported as spam, and instead a whole bunch of very positive reviews flooded in.

I wouldn't be surprised if the site is now on the PR bucket-list to monitor and respond to, much like the SA forums… :D
 
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To put it into perspective, there was something of a review-war going on in the wake of the Escapist episode. There were a number of negative reviews about the company at that point, but when those were brought into the lime-light as part of the general attention to the workplace that followed the Escapist article, those were all suddenly flagged and reported as spam, and instead a whole bunch of very positive reviews flooded in.

I wouldn't be surprised if the site is now on the PR bucket-list to monitor and respond to, much like the SA forums… :D

Links to said "positive reviews"?
 
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Links to said "positive reviews"?

Just look at Agony_Aunt's link. I don't have enough access to see the older ones, and it wouldn't surprise me if that whole post war has been purged since. Maybe the SA thread laughed uproariously “archived” some of the more hilarious examples, but digging those out would require effort… :D
 
It is obvious PR report. Real life report would have equal bad and good *practical* things about working for CIG. As far as worker contracts go I suspect CIG have put lot of clauses to shut any criticism post factum. They might be illegal in UK, but it seems CIG won't care (they are certainly legal in US).
 

Yaffle

Volunteer Moderator
Another quick reminder to discuss the game and not each other.

As in, don't snipe, belittle, mock, or otherwise try to entice each other into making a post breaks the rules.

Thanks
 

They promised gameplay and currently we have zero demos about it...

I still remember ship scanning "Golf swing gate" and that storm in SC forums..

I just wonder can they with current team (I guess they have too many jpg, 3D artists on board..) deliver any "groundbreaking" or at least good gameplay..

..even in Q4 2017, that probably is new "unofficial" deadline for v3.0
 
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They promised gameplay and currently we have zero demos about it...

I still remember ship scanning "Golf swing gate" and that storm in SC forums..

I just wonder can they with current team (I guess they have too many jpg, 3D artists on board..) deliver any "groundbreaking" or at least good gameplay..

..even in Q4 2017, that probably is new "unofficial" deadline for v3.0

Biggest irony is that that "golf swing" mechanism was just a taster, an example developer wanted to share how mechanism at it basic would work. And it wasn't wrong or right. People just freaked out it wasn't that 'deep' as they imagined (despite my attempts to extract what they mean they are like girls - they just don't know).

This alone have left my highly sceptical about community driven design.
 
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Theres a saying in my country

"too many cooks spoil the soup"

Which means that you cannot let a whole group work on a single thing each one having his/her own ideas and expect a great result. You need to hunker down and follow ONE direction. The gamer community especially is a tough crowd to please and its universally true that you cannot please EVERYBODY. Most game designers think of a specific layout and follow that hoping for enough interest to complete their project. Community feedback is a great thing in such cases in order to slightly change the route or in case a better idea comes along but all in all developers have to mainly follow their OWN idea.

The community wont be able to come to a consensus and also doesnt have all the facts in order to make a responsible decision. This would include finanical resources, employee skillset, company infrastructure, timeline etc etc. Leaving decisions to the community would include a COMPLETE release of all available data...something thats not happening with CiG despite all the "open development" mumbo jumbo. Even the most hardcore backers admit that they have no idea whats happening behind the closed doors and how capable CiG is.....only in order to DEFEND the project against realists tho. Its still the most open development in history even tho nobody knows anything hehe.

Now CiG definately has ONE cook which is Chris Roberts the problem is that this guy has no idea what hes going to do, has no understanding of his teams skills or the technical capabilities. We know that people flat out told him "this cant be done" and got fired for it. Or better.....its not that certain things (PG for example) cannot be done but doing them would waste so much time and resources that its a no-go from the start. All things CR doesnt care about. Either he believes he tapped a bottomless pit when it comes to backer support or he simply is dilusional and doesnt know his own facts.


Right now Star Citizen is in a dilemma. Due to the continual financial support the backers ARE indeed entitled to more information or at least respect yet CiG continues to lie, mispresent or simply remains silent to questions. At this point in development nothing should be left to chance. Everything "should" be fixed down, design done and only the technical realisation should be left. Yet they are still adding features which they cannot describe in detail and there hardly is a foundation you could call "base" for the game they aim for. As far as I m concerned we are watching history repeating itself. Chris Roberts failed hard on previous endeavors due to specific reasons (mainly his own incompetence) and the same is happening again only on a bigger scale with nobody who could reign him in.

I dont really see a company anymore which is "trying" to break boundariers and push into areas nobody else did. I only see a company barely surviving and holding on to the surface. Prove me wrong, I d be happy if anybody could.
 
Biggest irony is that that "golf swing" mechanism was just a taster, an example developer wanted to share how mechanism at it basic would work. And it wasn't wrong or right. People just freaked out it wasn't that 'deep' as they imagined (despite my attempts to extract what they mean they are like girls - they just don't know).
This alone have left my highly sceptical about community driven design.

After that community backlash we had zero demos about other game mechanics like trading, piracy, mining...so question here is do they have anything to show at all..maybe they are too afraid to anger community and lose more backers..
I am sure they know that weak gameplay will kill all backers dreams fast..whats the point to have nice ships if you do not have anything to do with them...
 
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