THE STAR PATCHERRR
Nailed it [up]
The Star Citizen Thread v5
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Nailed it [up]
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In Germany, it is possible to ask for a copy of the ID card, but ONLY if there is no other way to establish the identity, an even then, irrelevant data are to be obscured--and the copy must be destroyed immediately after.
In connection with a refund, it's ridiculous, however. As in totally unnecessary, and dragooning to boot. (Clearly they hope that'll scare customers off).
Bet that what their accountants say when they get the bandwidth bill.
Because constantly finding things to spend money on that aren't 'delivering the originally promised game' seems to have transitioned into being the company's primary purpose now.
That and the fact it gives them much greater control over the flow of information. You know, like the FSB.
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My download speed is fine but like most people who are using a domestic broadband package rather than a business one in the UK, I have a fair use cap. In my case it's 50GB per rolling 30 days. Go over it and I don't get hit with any charges or anything, I just get my bandwidth capped to 128kbps (not a typo lol) until I go back under it. So yeah, the simple fact of having to download 30GB every time there's an update is enough in itself to keep me away from it before you even touch on gameplay.
Amusingly enough there is actually a modern game which requires constant internet connectivity to play and works perfectly fine in one of its three game modes even on 128kbps. I wonder if anyone can guess what it is
The law on this is quite clear. They are not in any position to ask for your ID. If they insist, simply set them a deadline. They will cave.
So we can assume that grey marketers cash out via refund a lot. Can't say I am surprised.
Yeah, they buried it. It's not linked anyway on the site. But since we found it awhile back, we just bookmarked it.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/the-pledge
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They're dealing with a refund cascade (this latest guy is a $5K whale). This latest "ID required" step is not only illegal, but also yet another way to discourage people from refunding. They're assuming that those in the Grey market, or engaged in money laundering, would be hesitant to ID themselves.
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Whoa! Apparently Spectrum is just a re-skinned slug!
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While I do agree that CIG have done some odd stuff are some critics not going a bit on the extreme? More space games are good to have and having someone or several pushing the boundaries is a GOOD thing.
Look at many of the large games that came before, Starcraft 2 took 7 years WITH Blizzards full support and an already up and running game studio between 2003-2010.
Sure CIG had worked on a SCRIPT and a proof of concept build but hardly much more and had 8 people, hardly enough to make an entire game.
Since NOV 2012 they:
- Started companies on two continents to handle the workload
- Let a third party handle FPS (Illfonic debacle): Which was a hard lesson in communication that definitely delayed the project
- Rewrote Cryengine
- Invented new software tech to handle what they wanted to do
- Building the game
So they are barely started on the FIFTH year and has only had 4 FULL years of work where about TWO years got a bit lost due to starting companies AND the Illfonic debacle.
I would agree to a majority of the criticism of their progress if they had a full game studio from the start, which they did not.
Honestly, would people be HAPPY if they crashed and burned? Because that's the feel I get from a lot of critics. And it seems that some critics have gone from being critical of the production of a game into obsession and hyperbole.
Had they had the company needed and personel and TECH needed from 13 NOV 2012 after kickstarter then sure, then the game would be damn overdue, it's not. Right now it's in production.
And in many respects I can see it as a "tech demo" at this point in time due to the parts that are not yet done. A lot hinges on 3.0 and if they get THAT right they can begin to stitch together all the parts into a coherent whole and start to add more pure content.
Look at many of the large games that came before, Starcraft 2 took 7 years WITH Blizzards full support and an already up and running game studio between 2003-2010.
Sure CIG had worked on a SCRIPT and a proof of concept build but hardly much more and had 8 people, hardly enough to make an entire game.
Since NOV 2012 they:
- Started companies on two continents to handle the workload
- Let a third party handle FPS (Illfonic debacle): Which was a hard lesson in communication that definitely delayed the project
- Rewrote Cryengine
- Invented new software tech to handle what they wanted to do
- Building the game
So they are barely started on the FIFTH year and has only had 4 FULL years of work where about TWO years got a bit lost due to starting companies AND the Illfonic debacle.
I would agree to a majority of the criticism of their progress if they had a full game studio from the start, which they did not.
Honestly, would people be HAPPY if they crashed and burned? Because that's the feel I get from a lot of critics. And it seems that some critics have gone from being critical of the production of a game into obsession and hyperbole.
Had they had the company needed and personel and TECH needed from 13 NOV 2012 after kickstarter then sure, then the game would be damn overdue, it's not. Right now it's in production.
And in many respects I can see it as a "tech demo" at this point in time due to the parts that are not yet done. A lot hinges on 3.0 and if they get THAT right they can begin to stitch together all the parts into a coherent whole and start to add more pure content.
1) Yes, and?
2) Yes, and? (plus you don't know what happened; so no point in speculating that it was related to communications)
3) Wrong
4) Wrong
5) Yes, and?
All of the above, aside from 3-4 which are rubbish, is the standard part of game dev. That's what "startup" is. Just because you spend several years mucking about, doesn't somehow change the reality of the time and resources spent.
Aside from the fact that they knew all along that they weren't being realistic, or they won't have given a Nov 2014 ship date - and even blew completely past the +18 (changed from +12) leeway period. Now we're +23 months behind.
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That's not really "sad" though, that's just someone living beyond their means and choosing to spend $3320 on jpegs they can't fly in a game they won't get.
Quite.
Unlike Frontier who use peer-to-peer inside instances with the server doing the admin, CIG are doing everything client/server. Yes this is (if done right) a better way to keep a lid on cheating but managing 1000 players in real-time? I don't think so!
So CIG canceled another show appearance. This time with PC Gamer.
UPDATE: This is the second time they've canceled a PC Gamer event actually.
UPDATE: This is the second time they've canceled a PC Gamer event actually.
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Edit: I hope this post didn't turn out too accusatory, I'm honestly interested in the answers.
The problem I see is that CIG is in it sixth year of development (or seventh if you count pre-production), and they're nowhere close to a release. Right now they don't have a working netcode (24-person servers are so bogged down by the network performance that they force game clients to work at lower FPS), physics are severely buggy (being thrown out of supposedly solid ships is a regular occurence, walls are merely suggestions), and they still have a load of mechanics to include in the game, not to mention enough content for 100 star systems. I have mentioned this earlier, but if 3.0 would be released at the end of 2017, which is quite probable, it would be in development for two years. With this kind of progress, 3.1-3.4 should take at least a year, the same with 4.0. After 4.0 being released, the game would be between 5% (estimate of someone on the r/starcitizen subreddit) to 20% (my guesstimate) completed. So, one fifth of a game made in 9 years (with pre-production)/8 years (without pre-production)/7 years (with your claim that the development started in 2013). In this case, how long would it take to make a full game, and where's the official word of CIG explaining that to the backers?
I don't consider that an excuse. Even if by their incompetence some amount of work had to be thrown out, it doesn't mean it doesn't count, it means that that time was wasted on a mistake. If, theoretically, a student turned in a paper two weeks after the deadline claiming that it's because their first draft was unsuable, would you consider that a valid explanation? Either developers severely underestimated the amount of effort it would take to make the game as promised, or they knew that their release estimates were unreasonable every time. I can accept that Kickstarter estimates didn't take into account the promises made since then, but there was a later slide that promised SC's commercial launch by 2016, then the Gamescom 2016 presentation which promised 3.0 by the end of 2016, both of which didn't happen. And those promises must have been made after CIG knew how much work the game needs until release.
The problem I see is that CIG is in it sixth year of development (or seventh if you count pre-production), and they're nowhere close to a release. Right now they don't have a working netcode (24-person servers are so bogged down by the network performance that they force game clients to work at lower FPS), physics are severely buggy (being thrown out of supposedly solid ships is a regular occurence, walls are merely suggestions), and they still have a load of mechanics to include in the game, not to mention enough content for 100 star systems. I have mentioned this earlier, but if 3.0 would be released at the end of 2017, which is quite probable, it would be in development for two years. With this kind of progress, 3.1-3.4 should take at least a year, the same with 4.0. After 4.0 being released, the game would be between 5% (estimate of someone on the r/starcitizen subreddit) to 20% (my guesstimate) completed. So, one fifth of a game made in 9 years (with pre-production)/8 years (without pre-production)/7 years (with your claim that the development started in 2013). In this case, how long would it take to make a full game, and where's the official word of CIG explaining that to the backers?
I don't consider that an excuse. Even if by their incompetence some amount of work had to be thrown out, it doesn't mean it doesn't count, it means that that time was wasted on a mistake. If, theoretically, a student turned in a paper two weeks after the deadline claiming that it's because their first draft was unsuable, would you consider that a valid explanation? Either developers severely underestimated the amount of effort it would take to make the game as promised, or they knew that their release estimates were unreasonable every time. I can accept that Kickstarter estimates didn't take into account the promises made since then, but there was a later slide that promised SC's commercial launch by 2016, then the Gamescom 2016 presentation which promised 3.0 by the end of 2016, both of which didn't happen. And those promises must have been made after CIG knew how much work the game needs until release.
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Yeah its kinda hard to have pity with such a person to be honest.
Not want to be mean or anything but I doubt you read more then the last 20 pages of this thread right? Feel free to check the older posts and threads to get a complete picture. Most people here would WELCOME more space games because face it.....more is good and a lot here are actually very passionate about games. THATS EXACTLY THE REASON for being cross with Chris Roberts and Star Citizen because it STINKS like a scam by now and while I WANT more games I dont like being played for a fool.....something CiG has done for the last 3 years and is probably trying to continue doing for X more years. He was given a unique opportunity and tremdous funds to realize his proposition. He failed on almost all accounts but in the process lied, deceived, copied and probably wasted 143 million dollars.
Personally I am one of those people who would like to see this ship burn and sink but only because at this point I have NO hope whatsoever that Star Citizen will be released the way it was described and I blame Chris Roberts and his family for it. If you d like to reserve judgement until the game is done be prepared to be wait a loooong time. With the rate of progress currently demonstrated SC will be in devlopment in 2025 with not much more to show.
Besides its not like any of us wish DEATH upon CiG or anything.....in contrast to the SC-fans going around wishing sceptical people would just die or be run over by a car.....lets not talk about hate eh?
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Its okay to have wrong informations. You see this can be easily remedied. There is an official statement made by Chris Roberts himself in 2012 that Star Citizen was in development for a year already before he hit kickstarter which would put production start at 2011 because....why WOULDNT you count pre-production? That makes 2017 the SEVENTH year of production. Its simple math. If after this simple correction you still believe that its untrue and that its only their 5th year of production (also a topic which has been brought up numerous times in this thread) for various reasons then you are just making up excuses FOR THEM and why would you defend CiG? Its a big company, they could speak for themselves. Actually most companies rather remain silent and let their work speak for themselves. In CiGs case that wouldnt be a good idea tho. And please dont continue with this exchange. I heard the excuses......errrrr.....reasons for WHY its only the 5th year of production often enough and deem them insufficiant when evaluating a company handling private money in the MILLIONS. Its okay to be lax and forgiving with family members and stretch the truth for yourself but IMO CiG should be held accountable for their actions and some insight would be nice as well what with the open development and all.
When speaking with the faithfull realities gonna clash because for them production start has a different meaning then for the rest of the world. Same as "MVP" or "release date" or "groundbreaking". Its tiresome but there will be no middle ground with such people. In the old days people believed the earth was the center of the universe and flat and whoever said different was burned at the stake or beaten to death. You are free to believe whatever you like as long as you dont hurt or threaten other people is what I believe. A concept the SC community at large doesnt seem to agree with but things are changing and the tone on the RiS forums has changed in recent months.
Whoever is wrong...the truth will eventually come out. Thats certainly a good thing and if I learn something from it (in case I was wrong) then thats also a good thing
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The guy seems to have some issues, to be honest, at the very least a very distorted sense of priorities and zero ability to budget.
I have to keep a very hard grip on myself to stop going down the same path so have some sympathy (I have never been able to plan things as my future means literally nothing to me... I have some misfiring mental wiring [blah]). It's also why I have never, and will never, get into MMOs.
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The Illfonic situation was explained by the company. Sure, they might have covered their asses and blamed another company but it would hardly had any impact if they had said they had done goofed. It would merely be a delay in development.
So you are saying they did NOT upgrade the Cryengine to 64 bit precision with the personnel they had from Crytek?
Except the release date for Nov 2014 was for the ORIGINAL SCOPE of the game which would have been RUBBISH in comparison of quality and gameplay and only utilized a FRACTION of the funding they received. Or do you suggest they should have done the bare minimum and pocketed the money themselves?
- CIG asked the backers if they SHOULD expand the scope of the game.
- Backers AGREED that the scope should be expanded.
We know they are rubbish at keeping proposed patch dates and with a game of that planned magnitude it WILL take time and anyone with half a brain who can read and follow a project AND compare it with historical data of OTHER games know that no patch date and update is set in stone. If something is true about programming it's that one added feature will create two new bugs to be smashed. We can also look historically at CR when it comes to games that he is a perfectionist and that itself will delay things (and that's where i hope Erin can reign him in to get things DONE).
And the original shipping date MIGHT have been realistic depending on how limited the ORIGINAL scope had been.The moment the funding exploded and they wanted to expand the scope it was quite clear that would not work but the ORIGINAL scope would most likely have worked as a basic Wing Commander game.
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