It would be pretty funny to see a big fat T9 just park itself between them.
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- Thread starter Rinzler o7o7o7
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It would be pretty funny to see a big fat T9 just park itself between them.
Something being difficult does not equal something being bad? never said it would be easy, that's why it is called a tactic? its clearly not simply straight forward? but my point still stands, since it is mainly a problem in 'massive' pvp battles, that's here the balance issue would need to be fixed, not other places?
Rinzler o7o7o7
Banned
Because we tried to get it fixed through the standard methods of reporting broken mechanics. You'll find that we have posts going back to the last beta about how overpowered healing beams are, and yet there are still groups abusing it with no changes on the horizon (until we posted this video).
Is this the rise of the battle-cow?
I can see it in multi-crew. C8 shields, military grade hull, 3-4 shield boosters, two SLF launched at once, gunner firing 3 turreted beam lasers...
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It's only a tactic if it works. It doesn't work. You cannot separate 2 highly maneuverable and fast ships for a period of time significant enough to make a difference.
2v2/2v1 is Massive now?
This certainly wants looking at before multiplay.
Could you use two anacondas in a conflict with a heal beam, a bucket load of turrets for the gunner, and a shed load of fighters in multiple slots to just keep spamming them out when one is destroyed for by the third pilot.
Sounds like you could clear up on a conflict zone for cash bonds just by sitting there.
Could you use two anacondas in a conflict with a heal beam, a bucket load of turrets for the gunner, and a shed load of fighters in multiple slots to just keep spamming them out when one is destroyed for by the third pilot.
Sounds like you could clear up on a conflict zone for cash bonds just by sitting there.
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It's massive to someone that doesn't actually PvP. Massive would be a 5-6 wing fight, but that's where instancing starts to break down.
Actually I was thinking that the Battle-cow would see some popularity with the two SLF's alone. With a backup healer though it's definitely going to star in some troll PvP compilations.
Optimal for PvP (phrase) : Has spent countless hours at each Engineer, until obtaining a result with maximum benefit and minimum penalty, with every system min/maxed down to the .00001th place.
The real test of skill is not in what favors RNGesus bestows, nor in what clever combinations of benefits one can reap. The real test of skill comes down to two pilots, in stock sidewinders, demonstrating which of them really is the better pilot.
Not at all. PvE is about endurance, which is why bi-weaves with resistances and lasers are best. PvP is about how much you can tank and how much damage you can dish out in a short window. Very, very different end-goals, which is why PvE builds look so much different.
I believe my example was a 4 wing vs 4 wing? so not sure what you are referring to? want to find a solution or simply want to talk about that you do more/better PvP then me?
Again my example was 4 wings vs 4 wings, and that said, some tactics cause a standstill, you are saying "you can't" alright, sure, maybe you should try other ships then FDL? bring a corvette wing and have them hammer healers?
this whole thing comes off as a "we real pvp people know best, despite flying mainly FDL's because those are the only real combat ships!" And this is assumed because that is those mentioned in every and near all PvP examples, with only a few exceptions.
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Really?....
Just goes to show how little you know about PvP. A couple percentage points either way isn't going to make or break a fight, ED's skill ceiling is too high for that.
Understanding how the game works and using that to your advantage is a skill in itself. Next you'll be saying that flying in 3 dimensions is cheating and we should all be locked to a 2-dimensional playing field. You'll probably throw something in there about the field of vision of the human eye or something.
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And your example was ignored because it's irrelevant. Seriously, what does it have to do with anything?
An FDL with a concordant pulse and some efficient healing beams can out pace the damage of a whole wing of Corvettes.
The Corvette is also too slow to catch anything, so healing vessels can ignore them.
Yet again, proving various biases about PvP'ers, and giving them generally a bad rep, oh well, yeah, no one can be right but you. Everything, as proven in many threads that doesn't come from someone of x group is dismissed, ah well, I enjoy PvP and consider myself a PvP'er and know how often someone being unable to flex and adapt has been the actual cause of a problem, and not <insert technical 'problem'> and you only reinforce that stereotype.
Too slow to catch? change your tactic? if they are busy running from you they aren't winning? don't engage?
'but then there's no fun combat' well maybe, just maybe you need to adapt your perspective on that? because I can assure you, what PvP I have participated in has been rather mixed with ships and very enjoyable.
And both again, take note, I have never said there wasn't an issue, merely that the 'fix' might not lie in simply hammering the general usability of healing, is it too much? I leave that for frontier to judge, they have the actual numbers and how they actually want it to work.
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8 wing fights don't ever happen in this game, so I'm not sure why you were talking about them. Instancing barely supports a 4 wing fight, let alone 8. A 4v4 is 1 wing vs 1 wing.
You know why it comes off like that? Because maybe, just maybe, we actually DO know what's best for combat balance because it's literally all we do. In the example video, we have a Corvette being healed with a single huge healing beam taking fire from 12 ships (mix of FDLs/Condas/Vettes) and not losing shield %. That means, for every huge healing beam on one side, you need around 2-3 wings on the other to break even. They also had 100% time-on-target, which doesn't happen in real fights, so if anything, you need more ships. This also doesn't include SCBs which can cover for missed heals.
In real-world fights, which are usually 4v4s, no ship combo can do enough damage to break a wing of healing if they're even semi-competent.
You are forgetting that this "well thought out game play" is from the people that gave us "Mining Lasers" as well. I'm sure you can find this carefully explained in the design discussion forum :|
If they are mainly healing then just don't engage, if they want to turtle up move on?
I do also believe I've never argued that people don't have experience, but there's having experience and then there's being stuck in something, which my experience tells me happens a lot, myself included.
Generally though these defensive things are needed, what might be nice to know here is really how much it IS healing, has this been tested? get a corvette player, bring his shield to near depletion and show how fast it is healed? that might actually give some useful information? Because again, I'm not saying people are wrong, I'm saying the tone is incredibly dismissive, working against idea's with dismissing rather then showing numbers or facts or anything similar, you know that would seem to indicate working 'with' people, instead we get a group making 'campaigns' to 'fix' the game, harming and disrupting other players, knowingly abusing something that clearly should be bugged, because again, I'm not saying its working fine, and isn't broken.
I would prefer those kinds of useful discussions rather then what there usually is on the forum, dismissing and not presenting 'how' you know this, just "I know this" and the whole "I know this" without proof has been misused often, even on this forum. So yeah...
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I don't quite understand your view? Mining lasers exist already currently, just not practical or on scale anywhere near now?
As for 'healing' laser, what's wrong with it? its modulated basically to be a beam of wireless energy? boosting shield?
Least of all, it is a game set in the far future, considering how much we've developed in the last 200 years, in 1000 years? who knows where we will be, so yeah...just saying, doesn't seem 'bad' from that view?
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Perfectly possible to evade fire and pursue the target simultaneously. Likewise there is nothing about having regeneration/concordant weapons that prevents someone from using all the other tools in the game that can force a confrontation.
Most PvP doesn't feature healing wings. However, when it does, when they are constructed and leveraged properly, they are virtually impossible to crack and still contain significant offensive firepower. When a competent healing wing shows up, the counters are to get a healing wing of your own, gather completely overwhelming numbers, leave the system, or leave the mode.
Not sure why you'd think anyone needs to "turtle up" to leverage a healing wing.
I can heal a wingman while actively pursuing and engaging hostiles, simultaneously...and any wing with solid coordination can press the attack while still countering focus attempts of others by out-healing the damage they do.
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No but seriously, your only argument is a scenario that never happens because it breaks the game's netcode and CTD's people left and right. You have nothing going there.