The Star Citizen Thread v5

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Very bizarre to see people bragging over who gave a hasbeen conman more of their money for... nothing. People desperate for status desperate to drop the word "concierge" at every opportunity. It's a nauseating subculture... CIG did a great job appealing to people who want to feel special, their milking machine has been pretty effective. I especially love when they go into the stock defense: "How dare you tell me how to spend my money! It means nothing to me! Nothing! Forget all the threads talking about husbands desperate to keep ship sales secret from their wives, I can afford it because I'm pretending to be rich! Wealthy people are known for buying jpgs to tech demos, that's what all the elites do!"

you might very well be on to something there. Distinguishing yourself from the rest of your peers is a fundamental urge of males through all societies. Its especially bad at a certain age and results in brutal competition or stupid behaviour....anything really to get that advantage and be "above" the rest of the drones. Cheating, lying, fantastical claims....are all valid tools to earn reputation and status. At that point its not important to have the facts right, whats important is to "win" or "dominate" the situation no matter what. Depending on the fervor these people will gladly claim the earth is flat and try to beat their opponents into submission if possible. In older times arguments and disputes were not won by facts and being right....whoever had the bigger stick or was stronger was right, it was that simple.

The behaviour we can observe on a specific faction of people matches the ancient pre-human instinct that humankind has researched so intimatly but not beaten yet.

Competition leads to immense dedication in order to claim the first spot or gold. Often enough silver or bronze is already a disappointment and we can observe everywhere that "second place" is equal to "first loser". In professional sports the best specimen suitable for the task in question are considered but thats only the very first step. Having a perfect physique is kind of a "given" by now and nothing extraordinary like 50 years ago. Technical equipment, training facilities, personel supervision, drugs, cheating.....competition these days is a desperate race to outperform the others....at any prize. Some athletes are known to be reckless or risk their health permanently for that short moment of fame.

CiG has managed to make the backing into a sort of competition as well...through your wallet. The playing field is NOT equal to everybody, how much you invested will determine your place and also your starting point in the game. The open display of status and fame is another trigger in the community to convince people to hand out a few more bucks in order to reach that much sought after entry level to the elite. Only a select few will be so hardcore tho that title and display of status alone is enough to part with thousands of dollars for basically nothing (those few select....get help). The rest of the elite needs indirect material to come to the same conclusion. Shiny pictures, exlusive access to content, membership of an elite club...sounds familiar? These "high-rollers" will eventually compete amongst themselves as the differentiation we see on the "normal" forums (I am concierge and you are a foot soldier, lol) continues in the "elite-only" section only accessible to the high-rollers (we are both concierge but I have 20.000 more invested then you, lol).

This competition can take form in many appearances. Attention, post count, reputation etc. Its nice to be able to start a fire at your whim, gives you a feeling of control, the post count is a secondary statistics and is often displayed like the length of the male sexual organ but REPUTATION...now thats something different alltogether. Having people look to you for your opinion and actively seeking it out or discussions fading whenever you speak....that is a form of POWER that people in history have died for to possess.

CiG has managed to tie reputation very firmly to the amount of money you spend. And regardless how you look THAT will put you above the rest of the drivel fast. Names like Wulf Knight ring a bell? Whoever is into Star Citizen "should" have heard about this guy. The ONE quality that makes him "better" or known compared to the rest of the faceless crowd? Its the money involved. That got him the mentioning out of devs and chris roberts himself. That got him news coverage. It rewarded his one outstanding quality and lures others to do the same in order to get their own share of that fame. Spending more money....

He isnt loved but he gets the attention. Not anymore now that so many have obviously did the same and he isnt as outstanding as he once was. Strengthening his advantage would mean spending money on a scale that a private person is probably unable to raise so hes among the rest of the 30.000 and 40.000 dollar backers now. Other people have shown that the same level of attention can be reached via other means. Trolling is a valid tool for attention under the believe that "every" reputation is good reputation......and much cheaper as well. If you are unable to compete with master trolls on a linguistic level tho and cannot command them to shut up you can at least participate in the "pay race" so theres a spot for everybody.

I would believe CiG doesnt care for the occasional hick-up as long as the meta-game keeps going. At first reaching new people wasnt as important as tying down your existing customers into a spending spiral of epic porportions. We are talking about private persons here tho. Claiming to be rich, the casual use of "disposable income" is a legit tool to cover your desperate addiction for attention because would the truth come out (wife left, cant pay mortgage etc) people would use it as a weapon against him so some sort of cover has to be upheld. There will be a "breaking point" for this kind of people tho. Same as addicts who eventually do nothing else then raise money for the next shot there is only so much they can do in order to keep up in the "spending race". And soon the first few break off, then more, suddenly a whole lot of people cannot afford to put as much into SC as the rest, the small group of "mega-whales" which keep trickling into the fund. And even tho the milking CiG has done in the past is very impressive this small group of carefull nurtured cash cows isnt enough enymore to keep the boat afloat so fresh blood is required and fast.

Without a quality product to back up aquisition levels tho they need to rely on lies and smoke and mirror mostly and thats a losing game. No idea what they spent the money on but it obviously was NOT the company as now that new quality content is required it proves to be wholy unqualified to deliver even JPEGs on the same quality as 3 years ago. Development speed has slowed down even more (talking about a REAL check, not what CiG tries to sell as development) and "gameplay" relies on the old fundament who possess all the old bugs and errors while raising new ones. I believe that Chris Roberts and the rest of his monkeys try their best to keep the ship sailing. I doubt that his intentions match the ones of the backers tho (making a game....CRs priority is to stay alive financially.....delivering the game is just a secondary goal)

The fascade is crumbling for some time now and the surrounding fallout is noticable to more and more people. Wielding less power then before when it comes to backer support (a lot of people have turned their back or are overly sceptical.....compare that to 2014) news sites are suddenly braver to make dubious assumptions and report true numbers so the dissent spreads. As far as I m concerned its the logical conclusion to the scam that SC has turned into (or was designed to be from the start) and saving himself and his reputation would require Chris Roberts to release a working product and FAST or at least make progression that would reistablish backer confidence.

2017 will indeed be a very interesting year.


P.S. this story was brought to you by MTBFritz and none of the above can be proven, I also dont claim to have informations that could proof any of the above. This piece is a little theory put to words and a "possible scenario" at best. If I managed to make some people think about the whole thing tho or entertain you in the process then I consider my time well spent :)

/cheers
 
You are right that masculinity plays a huge role in the whole story. It is a social dynamic, not a genetic program , though.

It is a conflict between men and different masculinities on all sides. SC is a western, white, male fantasy where you can act out your scifi-dudeness with heavy gear, nice looking ships and big guns. The gameplay is all about stereotypically male dominated activities etc. The devs are mostly men too, especially the top-guys who are in charge while Sandi Gardiner (the only woman in this project in a higher position) is kind of the attractive hostess presenting the game in public. It is a very stereotypical, male-dominated world where dudes rule and women play no important roles at all (which is even mirrored by the fact that there is no female avatar).

On the other side you have groups like the goons and guys like dr. derek smart. The critics of SC seem to be heavily male dominated too. The whole conflict is a conflict between men. In these cases it is quite typical that 'male honor' comes into play, nobody wants to be the fool and lose their face, but especially in this setting where the ideological groundwork idealizes strong, committed men, it is impossible for many of these guys on either side to admit that they were wrong, or that they don't know (so all sides come up with vague explanations that carry no information besides confirming the position of the speaker). So you have these endless, toxic fights in online-forums that don't produce anything constructive, instead the focus is on degrading the male opponent and leaving the battlefield as the triumphant hero.
 
So you have these endless, toxic fights in online-forums that don't produce anything constructive, instead the focus is on degrading the male opponent and leaving the battlefield as the triumphant hero.

Very true. That's where our ever-patient moderators kindly step in, to keep us on track. In the absence of information, pretty much all we are doing is speculating. And there's not a lot of persuading going on: we do rather like to have our say from our fixed viewpoints. Bit like down the pub.

Star Citizen is however fascinating for that same rather sad reasons that car-crashes are. It's a wonderful concept, or rather concept-cloud, as it was left open-ended so it could be all things to all men (stet) - the recreation of the War of the Pacific is only one part of the puzzle. It's the fall of Icarus, the project that tried to be too ambitious. I'm not proud of being unable to read my eyes away from the carnage, but I'm not denying my fascination.
 
you might very well be on to something there. Distinguishing yourself from the rest of your peers is a fundamental urge of males through all societies. Its especially bad at a certain age and results in brutal competition or stupid behaviour....anything really to get that advantage and be "above" the rest of the drones. Cheating, lying, fantastical claims....are all valid tools to earn reputation and status. At that point its not important to have the facts right, whats important is to "win" or "dominate" the situation no matter what. Depending on the fervor these people will gladly claim the earth is flat and try to beat their opponents into submission if possible. In older times arguments and disputes were not won by facts and being right....whoever had the bigger stick or was stronger was right, it was that simple.

The behaviour we can observe on a specific faction of people matches the ancient pre-human instinct that humankind has researched so intimatly but not beaten yet.

Competition leads to immense dedication in order to claim the first spot or gold. Often enough silver or bronze is already a disappointment and we can observe everywhere that "second place" is equal to "first loser". In professional sports the best specimen suitable for the task in question are considered but thats only the very first step. Having a perfect physique is kind of a "given" by now and nothing extraordinary like 50 years ago. Technical equipment, training facilities, personel supervision, drugs, cheating.....competition these days is a desperate race to outperform the others....at any prize. Some athletes are known to be reckless or risk their health permanently for that short moment of fame.

CiG has managed to make the backing into a sort of competition as well...through your wallet. The playing field is NOT equal to everybody, how much you invested will determine your place and also your starting point in the game. The open display of status and fame is another trigger in the community to convince people to hand out a few more bucks in order to reach that much sought after entry level to the elite. Only a select few will be so hardcore tho that title and display of status alone is enough to part with thousands of dollars for basically nothing (those few select....get help). The rest of the elite needs indirect material to come to the same conclusion. Shiny pictures, exlusive access to content, membership of an elite club...sounds familiar? These "high-rollers" will eventually compete amongst themselves as the differentiation we see on the "normal" forums (I am concierge and you are a foot soldier, lol) continues in the "elite-only" section only accessible to the high-rollers (we are both concierge but I have 20.000 more invested then you, lol).

This competition can take form in many appearances. Attention, post count, reputation etc. Its nice to be able to start a fire at your whim, gives you a feeling of control, the post count is a secondary statistics and is often displayed like the length of the male sexual organ but REPUTATION...now thats something different alltogether. Having people look to you for your opinion and actively seeking it out or discussions fading whenever you speak....that is a form of POWER that people in history have died for to possess.

CiG has managed to tie reputation very firmly to the amount of money you spend. And regardless how you look THAT will put you above the rest of the drivel fast. Names like Wulf Knight ring a bell? Whoever is into Star Citizen "should" have heard about this guy. The ONE quality that makes him "better" or known compared to the rest of the faceless crowd? Its the money involved. That got him the mentioning out of devs and chris roberts himself. That got him news coverage. It rewarded his one outstanding quality and lures others to do the same in order to get their own share of that fame. Spending more money....

He isnt loved but he gets the attention. Not anymore now that so many have obviously did the same and he isnt as outstanding as he once was. Strengthening his advantage would mean spending money on a scale that a private person is probably unable to raise so hes among the rest of the 30.000 and 40.000 dollar backers now. Other people have shown that the same level of attention can be reached via other means. Trolling is a valid tool for attention under the believe that "every" reputation is good reputation......and much cheaper as well. If you are unable to compete with master trolls on a linguistic level tho and cannot command them to shut up you can at least participate in the "pay race" so theres a spot for everybody.

I would believe CiG doesnt care for the occasional hick-up as long as the meta-game keeps going. At first reaching new people wasnt as important as tying down your existing customers into a spending spiral of epic porportions. We are talking about private persons here tho. Claiming to be rich, the casual use of "disposable income" is a legit tool to cover your desperate addiction for attention because would the truth come out (wife left, cant pay mortgage etc) people would use it as a weapon against him so some sort of cover has to be upheld. There will be a "breaking point" for this kind of people tho. Same as addicts who eventually do nothing else then raise money for the next shot there is only so much they can do in order to keep up in the "spending race". And soon the first few break off, then more, suddenly a whole lot of people cannot afford to put as much into SC as the rest, the small group of "mega-whales" which keep trickling into the fund. And even tho the milking CiG has done in the past is very impressive this small group of carefull nurtured cash cows isnt enough enymore to keep the boat afloat so fresh blood is required and fast.

Without a quality product to back up aquisition levels tho they need to rely on lies and smoke and mirror mostly and thats a losing game. No idea what they spent the money on but it obviously was NOT the company as now that new quality content is required it proves to be wholy unqualified to deliver even JPEGs on the same quality as 3 years ago. Development speed has slowed down even more (talking about a REAL check, not what CiG tries to sell as development) and "gameplay" relies on the old fundament who possess all the old bugs and errors while raising new ones. I believe that Chris Roberts and the rest of his monkeys try their best to keep the ship sailing. I doubt that his intentions match the ones of the backers tho (making a game....CRs priority is to stay alive financially.....delivering the game is just a secondary goal)

The fascade is crumbling for some time now and the surrounding fallout is noticable to more and more people. Wielding less power then before when it comes to backer support (a lot of people have turned their back or are overly sceptical.....compare that to 2014) news sites are suddenly braver to make dubious assumptions and report true numbers so the dissent spreads. As far as I m concerned its the logical conclusion to the scam that SC has turned into (or was designed to be from the start) and saving himself and his reputation would require Chris Roberts to release a working product and FAST or at least make progression that would reistablish backer confidence.

2017 will indeed be a very interesting year.


P.S. this story was brought to you by MTBFritz and none of the above can be proven, I also dont claim to have informations that could proof any of the above. This piece is a little theory put to words and a "possible scenario" at best. If I managed to make some people think about the whole thing tho or entertain you in the process then I consider my time well spent :)

/cheers

A good write up and many interesting points, thank you!

During the development phase that doesn´t concern me very much. If someone wants to spend money to feel important, so be it.
It will be interesting to see what kind of business model Chris will use after the game has launched. If he then uses methodes that have a direct impact on gameplay he will have two customers (my wife and me) less, very fast.
 
A good write up and many interesting points, thank you!

During the development phase that doesn´t concern me very much. If someone wants to spend money to feel important, so be it.
It will be interesting to see what kind of business model Chris will use after the game has launched. If he then uses methodes that have a direct impact on gameplay he will have two customers (my wife and me) less, very fast.

Well, if he sticks to his guns he has already outlined the plans for it.

- Basic game packages for new players with starter ships
- Ability to purchase X amount of ingame cash per week (so no player can get a huge amount of cash and buy whatever ship they want from the start)
- Most likely a cash shop for smaller vanity items like ship skins, character clothing and stuff

How he will determine the X amount per week will be interesting.
 
Well, if he sticks to his guns...


That´s the problem. So far I have seen:
- LTI only for early backers -> LTI for everybody who buys a concept ship
- Limited sale - only available now -> returning sales "to give new citizens a chance"

There are also some questions concerning open and honest communication. Here is a copy of what I wrote in a thread (discussion about his latest newsletter) on the SC-Forum:
Yep, there is quite a discrepance in what they are telling us. SQ42 was advertised for 2016; 3.0 as of summer 2016 (Gamescom) had the potential to be released in 2016.
And now Chris is describing (end of February 2017) complex meetings to work out the further schedule for both when - if the 2016 estimates were nearly realistic - these schedules should have been fixed long ago and only a few roadblockers should remain.

I have no problems with delays (I estimate a "final" version of the PU after 2020) but I don´t like being deceived.


I really hope he will stick to his guns, but I have some concerns what will happen if he needs more money to realise his newest ideas.
 
I really hope he will stick to his guns, but I have some concerns what will happen if he needs more money to realise his newest ideas.

Never fear! There will be a new flood of the righteous who recognise that you've not paid for anything and you don't really deserve anything - you were just pledging to charity and shouldn't feel entitled to anything in return.

it's a very strange place we find ourselves. The boasting about spending, and the dismissal of those who expect anything in return, is pretty twisted and a long long way from the promises of the Pledge and the repurposing of the meaning of "a pledge" within the SC community not missed by those keeping a closer eye.

This recent assault of happy-happy-joy-joy posting is only reinforcing the impression that the more fervent backers are in fantasy land
 
I finally got into the game. I'd say it's was worse than the version before it. Still couldn't get my own ship to spawn, but since I was playing with a friend I got to ride/fall out of his connie.

Pro List.

- Game loaded in.
- I wasn't invisible.
- underwear party on the landing pad.

*snip*

So I take this as the confirmation that 2.6.1 still features the glitch-through-airlock-no-air-simulated bug? Thanks for that. No big surprise.
 
Never fear! There will be a new flood of the righteous who recognise that you've not paid for anything and you don't really deserve anything - you were just pledging to charity and shouldn't feel entitled to anything in return...

There I have to dissapoint you, I am one of those :) I just see it this way for myself, I don´t preach it to others.

At the moment I´m quite neutral to the project and have fun with discussing it. I don´t think Chris is the saviour, nor do I think it´s a scam.
 
Didn't Roberts already talk about game packages post release including ships like the Hornet, that's a fair step up from a starter ship.
 
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There I have to dissapoint you, I am one of those :) I just see it this way for myself, I don´t preach it to others.

At the moment I´m quite neutral to the project and have fun with discussing it. I don´t think Chris is the saviour, nor do I think it´s a scam.

Clearly not a true believer ....

Not preaching is the only thing asked in this thread I think. The tale of the righteous and their devotion to the Cause and the honourable Pledges made to secure the future of mankind is where it gets twitchy. While I was quite looking forwards to a bit of Sq42 cheese it's when people start proclaiming it as a revolutionary wunder-game that will be superior in every way it's impossible not to object and cry foul - no game is that, no game deserves that and the inevitable crash and fall afterwards helps no one.

ps. can someone link me to the freaky underwear commandos in a cockpit with the head rotating through his own body? the recent madness has left it so far back I can't find it
 
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- Can't spawn my own ship.
- Fell out of my friend's ship(Ha!)
- space combat feels...off, like it's super arcady.
- The ring fell off the station, it wiped everyone on the station as it zipped through everything.
- The lag while flying the connie! I think it took 30 seconds of 3 frames per second for the server to understand to take us out of warp.
- A weird spawning thing happens with pirates, couldn't get to loot with out more popping in at the wrong time.
- everything is too close to the character's face, couldn't see half of my screens.

Went to play some more yesterday - this sums up my expiriance too. But at least you had some fun: "The ring fell off the station, it wiped everyone on the station as it zipped through everything." lmao
 
ps. can someone link me to the freaky underwear commandos in a cockpit with the head rotating through his own body? the recent madness has left it so far back I can't find it

I'll do you one better and give you the entire video:
[video=youtube;b5tuZR9Z7sU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5tuZR9Z7sU[/video]
 
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Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
I am on mobile so not sure if missed something. As far as I can see the schedule report was not updated on Friday correct? Just red the newsletter and there is only a mention about CIG looking at all the "complex" elements for the 3.0 and SQ42 schedules but no schedule either (not even 2.6.2). Any idea?
 
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I am on mobile so not sure if missed something. As far as I can see the schedule report was not updated on Friday correct? Just red the newsletter and there is only a mention about CIG looking at all the "complex" elements for the 3.0 and SQ42 schedules but no schedule either (not even 2.6.2). Any idea?

Here's a quote from the community manager on that topic:

Basically production has to cull all the relevant data, go through IC reports, see what worked, what didn't, what still needs fixing, make priorities, then examine progress on intended features, put that all into some production calculus that's way over my head, and then spit out a schedule. Some patches take longer than others, so I don't know when the first version of the 2.6.2 schedule will be ready, but I don't think it's gonna be tonight.

Interpretations vary, but people on r/starcitizen generally think it's a bogus excuse: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5w27pe/about_262_production_schedule/
 
I am on mobile so not sure if missed something. As far as I can see the schedule report was not updated on Friday correct? Just red the newsletter and there is only a mention about CIG looking at all the "complex" elements for the 3.0 and SQ42 schedules but no schedule either (not even 2.6.2). Any idea?

Disco Lando | CIG@DiscoLando-CIG10:58 pm said:
Basically production has to cull all the relevant data, go through IC reports, see what worked, what didn't, what still needs fixing, make priorities, then examine progress on intended features, put that all into some production calculus that's way over my head, and then spit out a schedule. Some patches take longer than others, so I don't know when the first version of the 2.6.2 schedule will be ready, but I don't think it's gonna be tonight.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5w27pe/about_262_production_schedule/

Roberts has always said that the schedule we get to see is the internal schedule (for unparalleled open development lol), so they either don't have an internal schedule yet or the schedule we get to see is not the internal one at all.

:eek:
 
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Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Oh wow. So not even a teeny tiny schedule for 2.6.2? At a loss for words really. I seriously hope the community starts to wake up.
 
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