If they are going for 100% realism, fidelity and immersion, they'll go with the ones that nobody carries spares for, and need a special unplugger tool that got lost during the last 100 kylie service
The Star Citizen Thread v5
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If they are going for 100% realism, fidelity and immersion, they'll go with the ones that nobody carries spares for, and need a special unplugger tool that got lost during the last 100 kylie service
500K-700K SC donors/players, and that poll got 648 answers. If anything isn't looking good, it's the sample size of that poll.
Couldn't be more wrong - try some statistical measures and the sample size you'd need for 99% confidence that your survey was accurate within 5% is only 665 samples.
So no really. Couldn't be more wrong.
I cannot say for sure but I think that Room System and possibly the rest of Item 2.0 should come with 3.0, Megamap I'm almost sure was supposed to be with 2.6 so maybe in 2.6.2 or maybe with 3.0 too. About Object Container, no idea but I supposed they will try to have it(although it should be already done but well...) too for 3.0
Yep in the end, with 3.0 or, as always, later. If I see some confirmation somewhere I will post it in the future. But I wouldn't count on that until 3.0's schedule.
Someday, somehow...(many years without remembering that Nickelback's song...)
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What a cute link. Now use Google to learn more about how sample size isn't the only relevant factor.
Oh very aware - but your post only made reference to the sample size, it's included in my response for your convenience should you need to check.
Of course I'd been well ninja'd by then but I get very bored of people coming out with stuff like that. Considering you have subsequently claimed to know all about the topic and hence that your statement was misleading at best when you posted it's all looking a bit shady.
I also mentioned methodology in the 2 following posts. Hard to believe you read such shorts posts, but missed it twice.
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Bah, someone obviously read my comment about paying employees in JPGs.
"Of course I'd been well ninja'd by then but I get very bored of people coming out with stuff like that."
I posted before I read those. As said. Also hard to believe you went straight for the sample size when you knew it was an invalid complaint, but moving on.... I think we were discussing why a suitably sized sample of people who pay close attention to SC's development was in no way to be trusted?
We've not established that the polling participants are indeed "a suitably sized sample of people who pay close attention to SC's development". (Bolded the point of emphasis.)
For all you know, 50% of the participants could be 1 person from 4chan.
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Poll being wrong or right doesn't make Star Citizen any more existant or good than it currently is.
Nothing short of a complete management change in CIG would affect the nongoing progress towards the goal of making the best darn series of internet videos of people not really making much of a space sim ever.
(BDSVNMMOSSE in abreviated form)
Nothing short of a complete management change in CIG would affect the nongoing progress towards the goal of making the best darn series of internet videos of people not really making much of a space sim ever.
(BDSVNMMOSSE in abreviated form)
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Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
Harebrained Schemes and others proving this wrong notwithstanding, it is also a matter of the scale. It is not just a binary state. There are broken promises and then there are broken promises...
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Even a slow car crash is still a crash, considering their achievement in milking money rather then creating a game.
For the past 2-3 years we heared the same over and over again. "END OF THE YEAR" and if they miss that end...it just the next end. 3.0 as a example, first they marketing their progress with that at Gamescom saying its end this year...now its end this year.
In one year of PU what game mechanics did got added INTO the PU.
2016 was the year for SQ42 before that it was 2015 now its 2017?
There is somethign very wrong with their estimates and its clear they have become baits to fish out more money of the people.
Its not about how they miss those dates...its about how they outright lie about how far they have gone into developing certain thing
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I thought you might be taking something out of context here, so i had a listen, and my jaw dropped. I am totally dumbfounded. This basically means that while maybe they have mapped out some aspects of gameplay via the game designers and design documents, they have been lacking (and are still lacking if the team isn't together yet) any actual gameplay code beyond what already is visible???
Scary development strategy.
I don't know if people realize how big this is?
The Killing Joke.
So, since when did we hear of Item 2.0, THE feature that unleash SC's full potential? Now, basically item 2.0 - yet to be fully seen - relies itself heavily on megamap, mentioned circa nov 2016 and far from done too. This is a joke.
Star Citizen in one pic:
So, since when did we hear of Item 2.0, THE feature that unleash SC's full potential? Now, basically item 2.0 - yet to be fully seen - relies itself heavily on megamap, mentioned circa nov 2016 and far from done too. This is a joke.
Star Citizen in one pic:
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This basically means no SQ42 in 2017...
Probably we can expect few new mission types in v3.0, that probably arrives in Q4 2017...
*laughs out loud*
It is indeed either an indicator that the mechanics and features for all the professions and mini-games are finally rolling in supporting the endgame OR its a clear example of distraction thats going on. Like everything in life you can look at things with different perspectives but usually it becomes painfully appearant when your view gets something "desperate" to it which is a very big red flag for it being an hoax or scam.
Gas-stove and sink on a high-tech vehicle? Not really a clear sign for a scam by itself (I d just say its hillariously idiotic) but there are already so many of those in this project that it neatly fits into the whole structure. I mean we already got the Formula1 racecar.....I mean spaceship which was also directly based upon its design. I guess pets will be next...wait...that would require an AI and we wont get that before.....uh....4.0 which means 2020.
Quite easy because you are the anti-christ and pure evil and so obsessed with Star Citizen that your pathetic existance centers around following every little tiny detail of this glorious game while frothing at the mouth and performing dark sick rituals. At least seeing him making these accusations and mentioning of your name constantly makes this kind of view on you possible. The constantly shown double-standard is funny and sad at the same time depending on who they talk about.
Creating an enemy when there is none is a proven social distraction strategy utilized by governments and whole societies in order to unite the masses and direct their pent up frustration and anger elsewhere. It enables flawed systems to continue operate because the "workers" or "drones" are putting their focus elsewhere. In this case it would mean that the majority of the backers "do realize" there are things wrong with SC, things that, if you d think about them more would make you wake up and realize you are not looking at the BDSSE but a smelling pile of BLEEP instead. In Star Citizens case it would mean people were aware of its increasing probability of failure early on and focused on Mr.Smart instead of the problems to find a scapegoat to blame. The intensity of the hatred directed at him was confusing and very surprising to say the least. Usually its individuals who "snap" and become pure fanaticals. With Star Citizen this happened to a large group of people simultanously and has evolved into some kind of cult by now (see reddit dedicated Smart-section)
I dont think you can deny "misinformation" at this point anymore. There has been open lies, things changed, were refactored and release dates never met. CiG makes painfully sure to highlight the futuristic aspect of their claims (will be in, we are working on, this is how it might look like) etc but many of their demos are indeed shown as if the displayed content already exists and the crazy going on afterwards by the backers theorizing the blue from the sky is not corrected or reigned it.
Distraction / Hype successfull. Triggers another ship sale.
How the same old routine of "showing stuff - selling ships - falling silent / being unable to deliver shown- and paid-for stuff" is still working is beyond me but as that linked article shows....you might have to be involved to be able to understand the victims. Looking at something from the outside makes it rather easy to keep a realistic view on things. When you become invested those views might change to the point where you are suddenly unable to see past obvious flaws. Thats because your brain is conditioned at this point to pull up other memories and thought trains whenever the object comes up. Suddenly you ll remember the good times you already had (kicking that can across the landing pad...remember?) or the great dreams you entertained yourself with for hours upon hearing about this game and the scope. Abusive relationships work the same way. The "victim" keeps hanging on hoping the other party will come around or remebering the good old times when things were different.
Whats the pay-out?
In Star Citizen, letting yourself get duped or scammed is maybe preferrable to not having a dream or hopes at all. Companies are trying and there are great Sci-Fi games out there but most of them are not "perfect" and are missing these small things that would enable the consumer to visualize that the future is already happening and they are part of it. Suddenly this one game comes along which promises all these things that would enable you to live in that virtual world (No Mans Sky anybody?) and without much grooming required people fall for hype which they make up themselves. Some carefully placed demo shows or QAs enforce and increase it but thats by design already.
Chris Roberts presented an idea and the feedback he got was truly staggering and surprising to himself. "See a need....fill a need" only that in this case you can replace the "fill" with "exploit" because thats what it has turned into at this point.
They do it out of greed or simply to stay alive.....I cant say I care to make that distinction anymore. I personally am convinced that Star Citizen is a failure by now and anything coming out of this mess resembling a game will be a surprise. The thing is....would I have been financially invested (not with thousands of dollars, I am not rich or elite enough to have disposable money lying around) I cant say I would be at the same point of view. Maybe instead of seeing things how they are I would be over on Reddit in that drSmart section thinking of clever little memes and hanging out with my buddies or on the RiS forum where my "real family" is.
Hobbies always have been silly little activities which has been bolstered by money. Kids who love to do certain things most probably will keep these hobbies when they grow up. The difference is of course that these adults suddenly command a lot more financial wealth they can distribute without having to ask their parents. Take a look at modeling or RC. Comic or Anime collections. Out of all the kid hobbies that exist only the sport types continue to keep a valid public opinion. The rest makes you a "geek" or "freak". People fail to see that these modelling lovers often in their 6th decade and older sink 5digits per year into their chosen hobby. Regardless if you personally think they are crazy....that is real money there. Why not make sure its YOU getting a lil piece of it?
Whole markets build themselves around the need of a large group of people. This is also obvious in gaming development. Companies spend fortunes to figure out what their fans "want" and then even more to make that a reality. CiG has managed to capture and hold the interest of thousands and many of them were willing to pay for nothing but empty promises. The demonstration and the words put up on kickstarter were not much different to all the other kickstarter projects competing for money. The success tho was VERY SURPRISING (even to CR) and a combination of factors were to blame. CiG is simply building on that success but has never really proven its capability or ability to deliver on said promises. Personal opinion suddenly comes into play and makes very clear observations muddy and distorts facts. When you take a look at all the differing expectations displayed on the forums it can only have 1 possible end scenario.....a whole lot backers are going to be crushed when Star Citizen finally releases. Expectations are continously changed and trimmed in order to stay roughly on par with displayed "evidence" of good progress (tech demos are seen as the real deal, announcement, as unrealistic as they are, are taken at face value because they enable people to "forget" about their worries and doubts until <<insert date>>).
In the end the real question will be if CiG ever was able to deliver on their promises from the very start or not. Judging what we have now I d say they simply took the tools Cryengine already provided and put some shine on it. Thats all. They tried to ride the wake of other companies break-throughs (newtonian flight model, PG tech, multiplayer size and so much more) and failed so far. Failure is hidden behind a carefully erected curtain of "blockers" and "soon's". The shill reviews popping up all over the place as well as the echo chambers are designed to keep fading interest and enable people to justify the insane expense of money that (probably) might be very needed elsewhere. Think about it. You start to have doubts about the money you spent so far and you begin to see cracks in the fascade which is SC. You even bring it up because you dont know if you can stay a member of this community much longer bound by an identical interest and some of these backers are considered "friends" by now. Others tell you, you are doing the right thing or are ready to point out all the good and flashy things (which might not be relevant to your worries at all) and reinforce your belief. Doing something wrong can be turned into something right when others enforce your actions or do the same thing you do.
In the end, CiG is doing what every other company is doing as well. Taking your money for promises or products. Companies which dont deliver on their promises tho we call scams. Its very well possible that some minds look at the mess Star Citizen is at the moment and really mean it when they say "this game is already better then fully released AAA games". Its just that this opinion is not and will not be shared with the wide public whenever (or if ever) this game gets released. This "core" of people is not rich enough or numerous enough to keep CiG alive on its own. This must hurt the most to the ultra-dedicated who sold house and car to make this fantasy a reality (no doubt there are some of these among them). Giving up everything you have and keep going in the face of logic and reality only to finally realize this is not going to happen. It was glee at first but by now, seeing the level of dedication which is involved in backing Star Citizen I cannot prevent to worry about the surrounding fallout when reality comes knocking......I fear we ll read about in in official news papers.
That is a non-issue really. It doesnt matter if people want SC to succeed or fail. CiG is making that decision. As far as I m concerned they have proven beyond a doubt that throwing more money wont solve the problems. Excuses and blaming other factors/persons is at the base always the same thing.....an excuse. You have to decide for yourself if you want to treat the failing factor (CiG) like a family member or small kid when it comes to tolerance or if you are handing out the hard routine publisher style. Chris Roberts already got the boot from publishers and I think I read that he approached them first and only did the kickstarter in order to prove interest for any of the publishers to step in and get involved. Realizing he can raise all the money he needs from the clueless and gullibles instead and forget about publisher involvement....early christmas I d say. No accountability but millions of dollars to spend at your leisure and nobody who could step in and tell you what to do....it probably was a dream come true for CR as well, not only the fans.
Reality: simply enter a strangers ship or glitch through the hatch, walk up to the pilot in his chair and shoot him dead while hes in the sit-in / stand-up animation
I'm also amazed at how many Community Managers they seem to need
Looks like its an intense competition within their ranks to see who can use "words" the best and can sell "meaningless fooling around" as entertainment. Something Chris Roberts has done himself at the start but has delegated to underlings now that hes so important. Most of their small and even official shows have degenrated into that kind of footage. Showing people making up fun and fooling around in order to "sell" the game.
Poll being wrong or right doesn't make Star Citizen any more existant or good than it currently is.
Of course but its about survival by now. Survival of the project and of course the backers confidence. Bringing up evidence is needed to strengthen the resolve of the wallet warriors enough. Made-up claims and facts are poured in at such a rate and with such conviction that its sometimes hard to distinguish facts from fantasy. Double-standard and skewed views are everywhere (yes, I am faulty in this regard) and of course people "evolve" through the process. Its the reason why we see so many arguments bringing up the same old points and more experienced backers pointing out that they have been at that point as well in the past. Things change and CiG does change as well. I simply dont see it changing for the better anymore but I started at the same point as everybody else. Star Citizen was a dream horse that I bid on as well (with my attention instead of money) its just that so many other companies have caught up and left CiG in the dust when it comes to delivery of promise.
The above line is funny because it points to the amount of double-standard and zealotry evident in the typical SC fan. Pro-polls are pushed in our face all the time to demonstrate how loved SC is and how well supported. Anti-polls are ripped apart because of <<reasons>> and blaming third parties who have nothing to do with said polls. You can claim to describe yourself all you want and all day long but at the end OTHERS will judge your personality, your standing on reality and of course if you are a white knight or zealot or not. The only question that remains is if you care enough to adjust or not. I have been victim to letting myself "let go" in youger years when I was hotheaded and more agressive. Sometimes others were able to make me realize my follies, sometimes now. I am old enough to see what really happened in the past now. Thats something younglings wont be able to do.
My own experience varies a lot from yours. I first heard about SC in 2012 and the kickstarter was already done at that point. Chris Roberts stepped up the game at this point with his own website contiuing the donation process. Maybe there were voices back then claiming its a failure but surely there was no direct evidence for this that early? So we can label these early dissenters "trolls" or at least thats what I would have done would I heard about them. I had the link to CiG for 2 years but not going there regulary because it didnt seem to change all that much. 2 years later I was being reminded of this game by a friend of mine so I sat down and checked into it in more detail. The RiS forums were good source and providing enough data and information to prove the project was on a good course and steadily making progress. Of course there were also nay-sayers the thing is that some of these nay-sayers would bring up very well formulated concerns and often enough not bash the game but just asking questions. Questions I would ve posted myself so I focused more on those threads. And I became witness to the average white knight and zealot not reading anything and reacting accordingly but making a simple "good / bad" decision at the first line of post.....the line that shows if you praise the game or not and then continue to hack into the user with open hostility en masse drowning out everything in the process. Interesting discussions turned into disgusting and personal flame wars within 5 posts. I ve waited for the CiG moderators to step in and stop this kind of behaviour and guess what I was witness to? The OP being deleted or banned while the people who used the lowest form of abuse continued with their behaviour.
So maybe you were focusing on different things back in 2012.....2014 when I came to the party for real I was able to see the cracks and the doubts very clearly already but maybe I was simply looking harder then you or have a different understanding of the world. Whoever shouts louder is NOT right but thats what was happening there.
Thats the community tho not the company even tho its really strange that a company would tolerate that kind of behaviour on their own official forums. After I witnessed some truly horrible examples of human cruelty I turned my back on the forums alltogether and looked for other...."better moderated" forums to read up on progress. There was enough material available to make me belief that Star Citizen is on a good way and then the public denunciation of Derek Smart happened. That was the single largest red flag that convinced me that something is wrong with the game and marks the start of my decline in trust and conviction in the game. Everything I watched since then has been a confirmation that CiGs priority is to "string along" all the donkeys using a soft stick and a very large carrot while everything that got produced resembled the stuff that a donkey drops at the rear end. It was an opinion at first but being met by fantastical claims and outright lies from the white knights in the time has convinced me that CiG is unable to nail down on a direction or even fix down a single game mechanic and feature in advance = they have no roadmap at all. You dont want me to list signs for that claim...it would put Stigbobs list to shame (and that ones uncontested as well).
The dissent and fallout we witness now has not been present in 2012 regardless if you try to make it appear that way or not. Serious doubts and trouble has been increasing since late 2015 and has been a constant source of drama and entertainment since then. The shifting in polarity we were able to see in 2016 (and continuing) is something CiG will only be able to reverse or deflect if they come true on their promises. "Soon" and "maybe in 2018+" dont cut it anymore. Simply because those two things were used ad nauseum in the past. Seriously.....how often do you need to be fooled in order to admit that you are the problem in the equation? I have been fooled by CiG same as everybody else. I just required a single blatant lie and dishonest behaviour example to set me right, that is the main difference between me and a white knight as far as I can see.
Its this willingness to listen and double-check claims that makes me come to this forum every day. You cannot simply state "stuff" and make up "things" to rack in easy high-fives and online love
The FRONTIER forum is filled with a tough crowd. Hard but fair and if the quality of your posts dont hold up to reality then others will point to that and call you out on it. Its not an evironment the typical white knight can survive for long. The moderators are attentive and people are polite and know their turf. Sprinkle the recipee with some healthy scepticism and british cynism and you have a great cake to eat yum [up]Its an easy formula that works and is honest in its approach. Everybody is free to speak his/her opinion in this thread within limits counting for everybody but its very likely that people will ask you for proof or sources that would prove your position. If you want to be taken seriously around here you better come up with some actual proof or adjust your previous claim to "theory" or "fiction". At the same time you must be very thick-headed if your are not moved to thinking things over when you are faced with the level of facts and arguments brought to the table. There are simple questions which are unable to find any simple answers. If you are truly neutral and try to make up your mind quality of post wins over volume or quanity of "EVERYTHING IS ALRIGHT. And if you go to the CiG site yourself to find official statements you soon realize that whatever CiG officially and accountably states doesnt reflect what the average backer thinks. Instead you realize that Chris Roberts and co try very hard to NOT go into details and be as evasive as possible and mistrust spikes. Add the list of released content (they needed x years for THIS???) and voila. You are where I am. I dont need private persons telling me I m wrong or I m a hater. I need CiG to actually deliver something worthy of my attention and money. "Need" is probably too strong a word. I dont really care and I currently have more interest in the people on this forum then the game itself. Its more interesting and entertaining then whatever SC can provide at this point.
And that is the sad truth
Well, I'll base it on a somewhat realistic note.
- They hardly went out with the original idea that their kickstarter would be a scam to steal money from people because that would be pocket change
- They did not anticipate the amount of money they DID receive
- They realized they got far more money than the initial need for the game which in itself is nice
And here is the part where it starts to become problematic.
- They realize they can get more money for the game so they set up a separate website to gather MORE money after kickstarter (Since there still was a powerful interest from the public)
- With more money they can add more features to make something MORE than a bare bone old school game (Which is not a bad thing in itself)
- They realize they NEED to move the goalpost forward to squeeze into those features into the game (Which should have been known and communicated a LOT earlier)
- They create TWO companies to handle the increased workload (which further increases the time before release since they clearly have a lot of things to create)
- We are now into feature creep area but the money keeps pouring in at the end of 2014 (And now we get information that it will take longer.)
This is the area where it becomes muddled as their original gameplan is useless since they now have capital flowing and features they originally only dreamed about can now (theoretically) become reality AND they realize the original release date is useless.
One of the problems is that while they have been more open than regular publishers towards the public they have been somewhat tightlipped about the problems they run into and WHY they decided some mechanics or features are needed towards backers that would most likely like to hear both about features and the problems with implementing them.
What would have been interesting would be if they had added a disclaimer to their stretch goals:
- Each stretch goal can move the release date X weeks
And that would not be unreasonable if they aim to try and have ALL features at launch in some capacity but they have not so it's no wonder if people start to wonder what they are doing.
I honestly have no problem with a game taking time but their inability to properly set a schedule or at least keep people informed about the problems they end up with or why something will take longer - Especially from the moment where they should clearly have seen that their intended release date would not work, and they should have seen that at the beginning of 2014 at least.
It's not like they do not have an experience in creating Wing Commander type games so creating a cinematic campaign should be simple.
It's rather the period between the beginning of 2014 to 2016 where they could straight up had informed the community and backers that they would delay the release of the game X years because their initial projection was out of whack with what needed to be done.
main issue is the lack of communication of their changes and WHY. And im pretty sure THAT part is something a publisher would like to know.
And sure, he is not BOUND by the will of a publisher but it would surely help to be as OPEN towards the backers as against a publisher except perhaps for revealing too much about a specific storyline and spoilers.
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Yup. I can understand not wanting to spoil things and go deep into programming issues but straight answers to backers would work so much better and most likely lower distrust and uncertainty.
Agree completely. Yes, i do think they will deliver and I do think they have a crapload of assets to add when their mechanics and 3.0 - 4.0 allows it but it's not THERE, it's not something we can TEST and it's not COMMUNICATED why X takes a long time or WHY Y is delayed.
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