The Star Citizen Thread v5

[GaryII]

Regarding moving large containers: "we are looking at ways to move containers right now, actually, because yeah they are too big to lift. there will be a mixture of anti-grav plates on the containers, as well as a system to steer them that lets the player see where they are going, yeah" - "we are prototyping several solutions right now"

Here I smell lot of trouble right there - another overcomplected system to do simple gameplay, that is not important in big picture and for how long time player will enjoy that steering cargo gameplay and then will start to hate it... ?!

 

[Skizomeuh]

You know, just like a child too knee-deep in the mud of his numerous-but-not-serious lies he can't find how to start telling the truth.

 

[Stigbob]

I think you are probably giving them more credit than they deserve. You are simply assuming CIG is being just a tad incompetent in scheduling and scheduling related communication.

If this had happened in a couple isolated incidents among a consistent trajectory of reasonable scheduling, or if the delays had only been within the range of days / weeks in general, then I would be inclined to apply Ockam´s Razor and would tend to agree with the sentiment.

But this is way past isolated incidents. At this stage, several years in with a multitude of significant and seriously large delays or cancelations of all kinds this is no accident. By now they have enough info on timing of deliverables of all kinds (be it game content, demos etc) to have been able to learn and build in appropriate contingencies in their estimates.

No, at this stage this is a systematic, consistent and probably fully conscious decision about how to estimate and communicate about schedule, and in my opinion that decision is fully driven by commercial considerations and profiteering from the hype generated due to the false imminency of every announcement.

Now that really isn't fair, there is no repeated pattern of always missing deadlines as the ship sales are always precisely and exactly on time.

 

[Gnorok]

This Week in Star Citizen
Thursday is always your day for the latest game updates on Around the Verse, where we cover a variety of topics related to the overall development of Star Citizen and Squadron 42.

Well, thursday is going to be interesting. Will it be the great "coming out" or again fluff and promises?


Edit:
Mhh, after reading it again, is this the general announcement of AtV or is "related to the overall development of Star Citizen and Squadron 42" a special topic?
I was hoping that - after the latest email from Chris - we would get some information about their future plans...

 

[Zetta]

Originally Posted by MadDogX

About the Starfarer: "the starfarer's gonna get a LOT of love from the community when people realise how much they can haul. will be the backbone of the UEE" - "its time is soon"

The guys starting the game with these ships will be very happy....

Originally Posted by MadDogX

Asked if cargo will shift center of mass: "shifting centre of mass is probably not going to be fun for anyone" - "but we WILL be taking an inventory of all the cargo inside your ship... for 'other' purposes" - "" - "but the game isn't really about that, so its a balancing act between physics (which we could do) vs fun"

This is the sort of stuff the game was sold on, more fidelity and more realism than any other game around and now they're walking back on it.

It really annoys me that devs are so quick to promise feature X and cash in on those promises only to change their minds because it's too difficult or realise it won't be fun or whatever. Why can they not be a bit more honest and conservative about what the game will or won't contain.

 

[Tippis]

It really annoys me that devs are so quick to promise feature X and cash in on those promises only to change their minds because it's too difficult or realise it won't be fun or whatever. Why can they not be a bit more honest and conservative about what the game will or won't contain.

$$$$$$$

Just guessing…
Also, planning ahead and thinking about what will work and what will not requires effort; saying “yes” and trotting off to Monaco does not.

 

[LeSabre]

Regarding moving large containers: "we are looking at ways to move containers right now, actually, because yeah they are too big to lift. there will be a mixture of anti-grav plates on the containers, as well as a system to steer them that lets the player see where they are going, yeah" - "we are prototyping several solutions right now"

Here I smell lot of trouble right there - another overcomplected system to do simple gameplay, that is not important in big picture and for how long time player will enjoy that steering cargo gameplay and then will start to hate it... ?!

They've obviously not thought it out very well, the first thing I think about when they say "Too big to lift" in relation to containers is something along the lines of a 20-30 ton shipping container.

Now, might be a fairly innocent assumption to make on it's own, big = unweildy + heavy = shipping container yup, but then to add "anti grav plate" and "player steerable" well that just gets my destructive "must flatten the commandos and use this huge 20 ton metallic baseball bat to knock all ships out of the area" mindset churning. I'd love to see them make something like that without practically handing me a powerfull and brilliantly hilarious tool for generally wrecking everyone elses day.

Then I remember all the times where CIG bragged about how great 'feature x' would be and how literally none of the awesome gameplay ideas ever seem to be built into the demo's. Must be something to do with the lack of a gameplay team, maybe they could repurpose the CIG propagand... I mean the people who host and produce those useless and distracting 10-60 minute long 'give us money' vine compilations they keep putting out and have them do something productive and in the interests of their own backers for once. It might do a bit of good repect wise for them too, it's an earned thing after all, can't get that from yabbering on about ancient and rubbish arcade shooters or going off to do moonlighting on reality tv shows that no one watches.

350+ people and 140+ million and 4 main studios and 6 years and counting, pathetic.

 

[hairychris]

Regarding moving large containers: "we are looking at ways to move containers right now, actually, because yeah they are too big to lift. there will be a mixture of anti-grav plates on the containers, as well as a system to steer them that lets the player see where they are going, yeah" - "we are prototyping several solutions right now"

Here I smell lot of trouble right there - another overcomplected system to do simple gameplay, that is not important in big picture and for how long time player will enjoy that steering cargo gameplay and then will start to hate it... ?!

AKA "Half Life 2 Physics Puzzle Disease"

It'll be very interesting seeing how this is implemented, and it does sound like a lot of work for something that isn't going to be core gameplay! Hurrah for insta-trading!

 

[Snarfbuckle]

They've obviously not thought it out very well, the first thing I think about when they say "Too big to lift" in relation to containers is something along the lines of a 20-30 ton shipping container.

Now, might be a fairly innocent assumption to make on it's own, big = unweildy + heavy = shipping container yup, but then to add "anti grav plate" and "player steerable" well that just gets my destructive "must flatten the commandos and use this huge 20 ton metallic baseball bat to knock all ships out of the area" mindset churning. I'd love to see them make something like that without practically handing me a powerfull and brilliantly hilarious tool for generally wrecking everyone elses day.

I disagree. They SHOULD give us the option to drop a cargo crate from a tractor beam to flatten people, it's emergent gameplay to say the least.

Or for that matter, drop cargo crates as debris against incoming torpedoes.

 

[Gnorok]

...
Then I remember all the times where CIG bragged about how great 'feature x' would be and how literally none of the awesome gameplay ideas ever seem to be built into the demo's. Must be something to do with the lack of a gameplay team, maybe they could repurpose the CIG propagand... I mean the people who host and produce those useless and distracting 10-60 minute long 'give us money' vine compilations they keep putting out and have them do something productive and in the interests of their own backers for once. It might do a bit of good repect wise for them too, it's an earned thing after all, can't get that from yabbering on about ancient and rubbish arcade shooters or going off to do moonlighting on reality tv shows that no one watches.

350+ people and 140+ million and 4 main studios and 6 years and counting, pathetic.

So when they build assets and have to rework them for the final system it´s "wasting money". If they first build the game engine and then establish a team to integrate gameplay ideas into that engine it´s pathetic. (note to self: don´t try to understand people)

It´s interesting to see the development time expand independent of real time. 6 years would mean a start early 2011. First steps may have been made then, but it surly doesn´t fit with "350+ people and 140+ million and 4 main studios".

 

[Stigbob]

So when they build assets and have to rework them for the final system it´s "wasting money". If they first build the game engine and then establish a team to integrate gameplay ideas into that engine it´s pathetic. (note to self: don´t try to understand people)

It´s interesting to see the development time expand independent of real time. 6 years would mean a start early 2011. First steps may have been made then, but it surly doesn´t fit with "350+ people and 140+ million and 4 main studios".

The Crobbler never mentioned building his very own multinational multi-million dollar company, mo-cap studio and Derek Smart blaming media empire (with other peoples money) when he pitched the idea of making a spaceship game.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

So when they build assets and have to rework them for the final system it´s "wasting money". If they first build the game engine and then establish a team to integrate gameplay ideas into that engine it´s pathetic. (note to self: don´t try to understand people)

It´s interesting to see the development time expand independent of real time. 6 years would mean a start early 2011. First steps may have been made then, but it surly doesn´t fit with "350+ people and 140+ million and 4 main studios".

Personally, the vibe for me should have been "alpha = shapeless, blocky, nondescript boxes, just to proves concepts and show interactions / connections." Polish and Jazz Hands comes later? I know the CiG business model is now openly built on "Please buy the precious thing from the shop", so they aren't going to change.
It just strikes me as the tangible effort is being applied in the wrong areas, like trying to lay out a banquet on a rickety picnic table from Home Bargains*

*Other modestly priced garden furniture vendors are available

 

[VidarSnipes]

Another massive spike in funding, noticing them gets kinda boring after a while.

 

[Gnorok]

The Crobbler never mentioned building his very own multinational multi-million dollar company,

He had no crystal ball that predicted this success? Damn, he deceived us from the very beginning...

... mo-cap studio

10 Mio. Stretch Goal (10.06.2013): Cloud Imperium Games will build their own mocap studio to improve the quality of Star Citizen and Squadron 42’s cutscenes.

and Derek Smart blaming media empire (with other peoples money) ...

I have really no idea what you are talking about...

 

[Tippis]

Now, might be a fairly innocent assumption to make on it's own, big = unweildy + heavy = shipping container yup, but then to add "anti grav plate" and "player steerable" well that just gets my destructive "must flatten the commandos and use this huge 20 ton metallic baseball bat to knock all ships out of the area" mindset churning. I'd love to see them make something like that without practically handing me a powerfull and brilliantly hilarious tool for generally wrecking everyone elses day.

Then I remember all the times where CIG bragged about how great 'feature x' would be and how literally none of the awesome gameplay ideas ever seem to be built into the demo's.

…also remember how well they've implemented physical simulation of mass and inertia so far. “Anti grav plate” will mean “massless noclip movement,” just like it does with the ships.

So when they build assets and have to rework them for the final system it´s "wasting money". If they first build the game engine and then establish a team to integrate gameplay ideas into that engine it´s pathetic.

Says who?

If they first build assets without any consideration for how they'll fit into the system (because the system is missing), then yes, it's wasting money. If they first build the engine and then establish a team to integrate gameplay, then they're a bit inefficient but not really pathetic (you don't have to wait for the engine to start working on gameplay). But that's not what they're doing.

What they're doing is spending six years (and then some, since those six would still only get us to some incomplete supposed-alpha state), taking in $140M+, spending it on growing into a 350+ people staff spread across 4 studios and only now beginning to think about the gameplay that all that money and effort is supposed to generate. That lack of planning and mismanagement is pretty well deserving of the label “pathetic.”

 

[Stigbob]

He had no crystal ball that predicted this success? Damn, he deceived us from the very beginning...

Yes he did. If he'd been honest and his stretch goals had been real you'd already have had the game as pitched a few years back and CIG would have millions left over to expand (and in profit). That didn't happen, because the plan wasn't actually a plan it was a vague intention to get money to try and and do something with no idea of how or when.

10 Mio. Stretch Goal (10.06.2013): Cloud Imperium Games will build their own mocap studio to improve the quality of Star Citizen and Squadron 42’s cutscenes.

Then filmed at the imaginarium the most expensive mo-cap studio in the world. Also cut-scenes suck, I mean they really really suck, and cut-scenes made by the man who gave us Wing Commander the movie are going to pass the suck event horizon and possibly break reality.

I have really no idea what you are talking about...

Check out the Crobblers letter to the escapist.

 

[LeSabre]

Not being combatative, but I must say:

He had no crystal ball that predicted this success? Damn, he deceived us from the very beginning...

It's not successful until a release quality product is shipped and received in good grace by the people who have paid for it, gaining money on it's own is no sign of success if they've yet to produce a suitable product. Until that happens then they've simply just got 140+ million in public liabilities (debt, for the uninitiated if there's any here) They owe their backers either the money or the product. You know that thing where good people give a needy homeless person some cash to help sort out their problems, expecting the person to do something good, then the good people go back later to check on that person and find out they blew the money on the gee-gee's (racehorseys) and booze? That's CIG's business model that is

10 Mio. Stretch Goal (10.06.2013): Cloud Imperium Games will build their own mocap studio to improve the quality of Star Citizen and Squadron 42’s cutscenes.

Which they then after building it completely forgot about and went to the most expensive place on earth for 3rd party motion capture work and in the meantime built a second unused motion capture facility back home just to have something to call a 'write off/offset/expense' on the tax returns (allegedly, so probably completely true almost certainly).

I have really no idea what you are talking about...

DS blaming the media empire known as CIG (If I read it right, dislocated my elbow over the weekend in a funny trials bike assisted handwavium accident and reading while on really strong painkillers really is a hoot)

(Ok, I got the last one a tadbit wrong, I think, probably.)

 

[thorn-]

This is the sort of stuff the game was sold on, more fidelity and more realism than any other game around and now they're walking back on it.

That's an interesting trap you've set... you're creating your own personal definition of "more", and then slamming someone when they haven't met your criteria. That's the sort of logic a 3rd grader uses.

"Dad, you said we were going somewhere FUN!"

We're at a park, this isn't fun?

"I wanted DISNEYWORLD! YOU LIED"

 

[Gnorok]

...
It's not successful until a release quality product is shipped and received in good grace by the people who have paid for it, gaining money on it's own is no sign of success if they've yet to produce a suitable product.

I fully agree. I was refering to the success/result of the kickstarter/early backing with regard to "building his very own multinational multi-million dollar company"

 

[Zetta]

That's an interesting trap you've set... you're creating your own personal definition of "more", and then slamming someone when they haven't met your criteria. That's the sort of logic a 3rd grader uses.

"Dad, you said we were going somewhere FUN!"

We're at a park, this isn't fun?

"I wanted DISNEYWORLD! YOU LIED"

How about you keep your insults and assumptions where they belong eh?!

This is not about my criteria, if you had bothered to ask for a clarification then I would have been more than willing to accomodate you but this immature passive agressiveness makes me not want to bother.

The official forums, the subreddit and various other posts across various message boards have forever extolled how things like mass based on shifting cargo will be what separates SC from the chaff and how SC is doing things that other games cannot do blah blah blah.