Open Play griefers

[Tel Prydain]

It would change overnight if players took it upon themselves to group together to chase off griefers.

Counter-point: It would change overnight if those wanting to pew-pew players just picked a system to turn into a giant arena, then went and spent their time engaging with people who wanted to be engaged. It wouldn't entertain the pirates, of course - but no one here objects to an honest pirate... we're objecting to the ones that drop in a start shooting, ostensibly because they 'want PvP'
But they DON'T want that, or the arena thing would have happened already. What they want is for their wing of four warships to drop in on a single, under-geared player, then time how long it takes to make them eat a rebuy so they can post it on youtube and then get all that lovely attention their parents obviously denied them.

In a game with open pvp, self policing is the only policing that is practical, and it has been very effective in other games where ducking into solo or a private group is not an option.
A number of player factions do work to keep their own corner of the galaxy safe from this sort of behaviour, but they are only a small part of the larger community and the play space is vast.

Doesn't work. Aside from instancing issues, and how pathetically small the cut of the trader's profits is for the guardians in the wing, and how engineered ships will destroy an unengineered ship long before the escorts can drop in... aside from all that...
Fuel rats don't use escorts precisely because, aside from the normal scum who kill rats for fun, PvP'ers that wouldn't normally grief would start using them as "dial-a-fight".

Ultimately, it is ED's community at large that is responsible for the continuing situation, and only they have the ability to really change it, however, they simply cannot be bothered or would rather point the finger of blame elsewhere.

I agree. I look forward to the 'Pvp community' getting together and entertaining each other and working on their feelings togeather, rather than subjecting the rest of us to their necrosis.
That's what you meant, right?
Right?

Well, if people don't want to be subjected to hostile player attention then of course they're going to migrate to easy mode.

Bull-pap. 98% of the gankers rushed to engineer giant ships brought with credits from Slaves/Robigo/Sothis/Ceos, and did so in an environment free of over-engineered players ganking people at the engineer bases for fun.
And now they have the audacity to to belittle those who are slowly building themselves up without exploiting, and without the benefit of being first to buff with engineering.

THEY played in easy mode - now Open is a Max Max-esc hellscape, where only the biggest jerks survive.

9 posts. That's how long it took from the OP raising a concern, to the PvP White Knights riding in to derail the thread.
Vocal minority? YOU are the minority, not those who don't enjoy being ganked. Frontier have already confirmed PvP players ARE the minority.

Certain PvP groups are known to coordinate brigading of threads here and on reddit to drown out criticism and lead them off-topic while harvesting 'salty tears'.

 

[Ian Skippy]

The Urban Dictionary is your friend.

Weird how coal isn't present anywhere in the galaxy so far.

- - - Updated - - -

Bull-pap. 98% of the gankers rushed to engineer their giant ships perchiced with credits from Slaves/Robigo/Sothis/Ceos, and did so in an environment free of over-engineered players ganking people at the engineer bases for fun.
And now they have the audacity to to belittle those who are slowly building themselves up without exploiting, and without the benefit of being first to buff with engineering.

THEY played in easy mode - now Open is a Max Max-esc hellscape, where only the biggest jerks survive.

I survive.

 

[Tel Prydain]

This thread is already entrenched in the classic Elite Forums style.. PVP vs PVE.
I do not think there can ever be a agreement between the two groups. The individual tastes are simply to wide apart to reconcile on anything at all.
PVE's mainly want to play it their way, trading, exploring, mining, all low adrenaline tasks, but it gives them the kick, some will gank NPC's all day, and some will be ganked by NPC's.

That's a false dichotomy. Most 'pve' players don't mind PvP in the context of the game. Pirates, blockades, powerplay factions, BGS faction based PvP.... and of course if PvP'ers want to pick an anarchy system and turn that into PvP battleground, that's great.

The key to that is communication of intent and the ability of the 'attacked' to respond to that intent.
Someone being pirated can drop cargo, someone being bloackaded can agree to leave (or pay them off), rival powerplay member could be forced to abandon their cause, people blocking BGS progress can be forced to leave the system, etc

All of that adds to the excitement of the game, adds consequences to actions and richness to the setting... all without forcing a rebuy, and allowing PvP if people are up for it.
And frankly, that's why we still play in open.

I survive.

Me too - I was applying hyperbole.

 

[Stealthie]

Exactly, but that's the point of Open, sandbox "blaze your own trail" PVE/PVP universe. You know full well you might be attacked, why complain about it when it happens? The thing is people have every right to shoot at you, and you willingly accepted the risk by logging in to that game mode, i just don't understand the logic behind forum posts complaining about the inevitable.

Well, firstly, why wouldn't people complain when something bad happens, regardless of whether they're aware it might happen?
I know my car might get dented every time I drive it. I'm still gonna moan if somebody does dent it.

This problem exists in almost every multiplayer game.
The thing that makes ED slightly different is that it's supposed to be a game that allows people to to do a variety of things.
You can explore, you can trade, you can mine, you can make money, you can seek adventure, you can join a navy, you can support different political factions etc.
Except that you actually can't do any of those things without risking becoming a victim to somebody who just wants to screw with other players for no good reason.
So, your only choices are to either carry on as you are and accept that you're going to be victimised once in a while or you can forget all that other stuff and built a ship so you can shoot other people too.
Which rather undermines the vast majority of the possible gameplay.

So, if FDev really want to encourage us to play in a variety of different styles, they need to figure out a way of making each style equally viable.
In-game, we're in a universe where people get killed for accidentally shooting a cop while they're in the process of fighting for their own lives or for attempting to land on the wrong pad or bumping another ship while entering a station so it's rather bizarre that somebody can just destroy a whole hep of ships in the middle of a high-security system with little or no punitive action.

Surely it couldn't be that hard to create hit-squads of police ships which'll jump in and then attack and pursue any player who's killed more than one other player within a certain time?
Do that, see if it helps and then fine-tune it if it either doesn't do enough or if it's too harsh.

 

[Tikigod]

I still can't help but read things like the OP and go "Wow, they either won the Elite Dangerous lottery there... or they were hanging around one of the handful of tourist spots and exploit loop areas".

Been playing in Open since near release, and the only problem I've had with people attacking me in Open was when I was pledged to Hudson in powerplay and dared point out a Anti-Federation group of players were Anti-federation by them actively trying to lower the influence of any Federation faction in the system in order to allow their faction to hold dominion. (To which the general reaction from Hudson members was "Nah bro, they're totally cool. I joined their discord and they're funny guys")

So to prove they weren't Anti-Federation and wouldn't kill any Hudson pledged players just for helping the Federation, they proceeded to kill me citing it was "Because I was actively working against them by helping the Federation in Conflict zones"... then decided to make that their new open policy stating that if everyone just stopped helping the Federation they'd stop killing them which totally backed up their claim they weren't Anti-Federation........

Though last I saw of them a background simulation glitch when 2.2 went live caused their influence over stations to shift a bit, and their leader had taken to the forums to tell Frontier that they'd instructed their entire group to now just grief everyone in the game and go out of their way to ruin peoples experience as a consequence of the glitch.... so pretty sure they were just combat seeking crazies that didn't really think statements through before making them.


But other than that, I've never once been attacked in open. Certainly seen a lot of players and some newb in a Viper once tried to kill my Vulture because I came across them and told them I was just performing a security scan and if they were clean they'd be free to go, and their reaction was to just turn and open fire on me giving themselves a bounty.... then after I depelted their hull and left them saying if they stopped firing they could leave alive, to which they ignored my message and opt'ed to be destroyed....

But never once have I been actively hunted, interdicted and killed by anyone.

Though I don't camp tourist sites and I don't utilise broken exploit areas for unintended amounts of credits either.... so maybe that's what I'm doing 'wrong'.

 

[jasonbarron]

I still can't help but read things like the OP and go "Wow, they either won the Elite Dangerous lottery there... or they were hanging around one of the handful of tourist spots and exploit loop areas".

Been playing in Open since near release, and the only problem I've had with people attacking me in Open was when I was pledged to Hudson in powerplay and dared point out a Anti-Federation group of players were Anti-federation by actively trying to lower the influence of any Federation faction in the system in order to allow their faction to hold dominion.

So to prove they weren't Anti-Federation and wouldn't kill any Hudon pledged players, they proceeded to kill me citing it was "Because I was actively working against them by helping the Federation in Conflict zones"... and that if everyone just stopped helping the Federation they'd stop killing them which proved they weren't Anti-Federation........

Though last I saw a background simulation glitch when 2.2 went live caused their influence over stations to shift a bit, and their leader had taken to the forums to tell Frontier that they'd instructed their entire group to now just grief everyone in the game and go out of their way to ruin peoples experience as a consequence of the glitch.... so pretty sure they were just combat seeking crazies.


But other than that, I've never once been attacked in open. Certainly seen a lot of players and some newb in a Viper once tried to kill my Vulture because I came across them and told them I was just performing a security scan and if they were clean they'd be free to go, and their reaction was to just turn and open fire on me giving themselves a bounty.... then after I depelted their hull and left them saying if they stopped firing they could leave alive, to which they ignored my message and opt'ed to be destroyed....

But never once have I been actively killed by anyone.

Though I don't camp tourist sites and I don't utilise broken exploit areas for unintended amounts of credits either.

You haven't been going to CG's in Open; plenty of hot player on player action there.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Though I don't camp tourist sites and I don't utilise broken exploit areas for unintended amounts of credits either.... so maybe that's what I'm doing 'wrong'.

Trade CGs and engineer bases is where the griefing is to be had. Combat CGs is where PvP players hang out.

Generally speaking ofcourse.

 

[Cosmos]

Well this thread is new and completely original. [zZzZz]

 

[redfoxone]

Although I am not a PvP'er myself I think there's a place for griefers, gankers, pirates, pvp'er etc.. (i know there is a difference between them).

However I think killing a (human) member of the Pilots Federation should have some consequences other than a meager bounty vs loss of a gold laden cutter (yes hyperbole example).

I.e. revoke the license for an increasing amount of time for like 1 hour for first kill, then a day and so on. This should not be reset on death but have cool down timer. Strong PF death squads should be hunting the villains in all but anarchy systems while the license is revoked. That would also give some excitement to the gankers but make it near impossible for them to continuously hang around in a non anarchy system.

For pirates a new disabling weapon should be introduced so they don't have to risk killing a player to disable the ship and just have the current bounty system apply. Obviously with some tweaking so the player victim aren't disabled forever.

PvP'ers can disable "report crime against me" to circumvent all this. So they're good.

Snowflakes like me could rest easy knowing punishment of my federation will be harsh for the hannibal lectors or at least have some consequences.

Seems to me everybody would have a place in this kind of framework.

Anyway something like this, perhaps? maybe? possibly?

 

[space pilot]

...Anyway something like this, perhaps? maybe? possibly?

It doesn't sound awful to me. I think it would be best with some kind of automatic exception for political PvP like Powerplay conflicts, where it would surely be understood as valid by the Pilot's Federation, or there wouldn't be Powerplay with members of it.

 

[thirstyfish]

Sigh...not this again.

There is a threadnaught for this already. Just close the thread. Severe case of battered deceased equine.

Hear that sound? Its a soul being crushed.

 

[Tikigod]

Trade CGs and engineer bases is where the griefing is to be had. Combat CGs is where PvP players hang out.

Generally speaking ofcourse.

Been to loads of Engineer bases, in fact my main home region is smack in the middle of two engineers so I can easily get to both frequently. I see lots of players but never any griefing.

But yeah, I don't tend to run the CGs... if the problem is CGs are camped by lots of griefers but anywhere not near CGs is fine than the solution to that seems really simple. Only do CGs when you're prepared to tackle the additional risk.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Been to loads of Engineer bases, in fact my main home region is smack in the middle of two engineers so I can easily get to both frequently. I see lots of players but never any griefing.

But yeah, I don't tend to run the CGs... if the problem is CGs are camped by lots of griefers but anywhere not near CGs is fine than the solution to that seems really simple. Only do CGs when you're prepared to tackle the additional risk.

Hey, I am not complaining. Its a state of mind: some feel CG's are happy-go-lucky campfire events and hate opposition. I love it when people try to blockade me. Makes me think of ways to beat the opposition. For me a griefer-less trade-cg is identical to just hauling crap from A to B with slightly better rewards. Others love the sense of community and such. To each his own.

 

[Red Anders]

Well this thread is new and completely original. [zZzZz]

[video=youtube;ysFxrPNjvNA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysFxrPNjvNA[/video]

 

[duckofdeath]

TL;DQ

The argument "Open works fine, because I've only had problems when going to places where other CMDRs goes to", really trips over itself, doesn't it?

 

[Arindor]

Every time one of these threads pop up, a little fairy dies. (et al., etc.)

 

[Ian Skippy]

Every time one of these threads pop up, a little fairy dies. (et al., etc.)

Darn griefers killing fairies now? Curse them!

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Yeh I saw that video at the time, and it really is going to take a lot of time investment (more than a few hours) to get that ship. Do people want to go to that length when they can just click "easy mode" as you suggest. Probably not.

Edit: It would be nice if someone could do a similar level of testing with not quite so uber ships to see what can be done for people who want to play open but can't invest that much time in the game for one ship.

Engineers do involve some time investment, but not as much as you would think. The hardest (and dumbest) part for some of them are the unlock tasks. I'm currently working to unlock Bill Turner, and consider both having to ally with a minor faction to get to him, then mine 50T of bromellite to make him my bro to be a ridiculous waste of my game time.

However, after the unlock, it's all pretty easy. The key to easy engineering is to engage in varied gameplay. Between participating in mining, running combat zones, mission running, etc, you fill up on lots of mats fast. Yes, there are some mats that you have to go out and proactively get, but the easy ones are easy to come by, and the hard ones require little inventory.

One of the most important, Lei Cheung, requires little effort to unlock, and gives you G5 mod access to one of the most important modules for survival - shields.

 

[thirstyfish]

Darn griefers killing fairies now? Curse them!

Who knows their latin? Translate this: equus mortuus verberans.

Just done with this thread, and this entire topic. My personal views on it are out there already. Don't see the need to repeat myself over and over again just to get the same responses from the same people over and over again.

 

[metatheurgist]

I'd find it hilarious if a serial killer attacked me in his uber nodded ship, only to be dropped in on by a wing of Super Elite Vettes/Cutters/FDLs, etc, modded to the absolute maximum.

Security should be actively looking for criminals in their space, not waiting for an attack to happen. There's also a gameplay opportunity to be had here. Security squads should also be broadcasting the locations of sighted criminals and offering kill missions to all players of good standing in the instance.

The "Git Gud" argument is a load of balls. My Vulture has "pointless" features like a fuel scoop, discovery scanners, cargo rack. Murder ships are packed with MRPs, HRPs and SCBs. The addition of military slots didn't help the situation at all, what they should've done was enforce non-military slots so every ship is forced to have a balanced loadout and extreme murder builds are a fantasy.