exploring still sucks.

They can't nerf exploration missions, because they haven't implemented any exploration missions yet. Hopefully someday.

As for Dyson Spheres and anomalies, we really need better exploration mechanics first before they go adding exotic stuff like that into the game. Geysers, fumeroles, fungal life, and alien ruins have all truly showcased the dire need for better exploration mechanics. Without those first, any new content will be relegated to the very small group of tireless devout diehards who can spend dozens of hours searching with only their eyes, or possibly using quirks of the game engine to measure asset load times for hunting again. Hardly ideal from a gameplay perspective, and certainly not good game design, as it prevents most of the playerbase from participating in exploration at all.

Build the foundation first, then start framing the house, painting the walls, and decorating the rooms. When you buy a living room set before the foundation is ever finished, then that furniture simply goes to waste rotting out in the weather where no one wants to use it. Like the OP says, a half finished foundation without a house on it just sucks.

I'm not a programmer but I have to think there is low hanging fruit that could easily be added, that would make exploration more fun. Yes, continuing to work on the foundation of the game would be great...but how about some weird easily added stuff scattered all throughout the black, to make things more interesting, while they do the more complex stuff over time?

Wouldn't it be cool to be scanning an earth planet, and strangely it looks like it has the ruins of a city in it...when suddenly a new contact appears...oh crap it's a crystalline entity and it wants to eat me!!! In a nebula you see a signal source and it's an alien city-ship, long derelict, with a relic worth 100 million credits. Wormhole discovered, worth 20 million credits, but that is 200 million if it's stable...so you travel through it, and the other side is NOT STABLE, now you are stuck 40k light years from home and are a voyager making your way home.

IDK seems this stuff wouldn't be overly hard to implement. But maybe it is, idk.
 
Hmm... i still play almost every day and exploration is something i still do regularly.

Yeah and...? Some people like train spotting or manually adjusting cricket stats in real time! You are just less discerning or easily entertained/satisfied or masochistic or a combo of all three.....I could go on, but lets just say the OP is bang on the money after 2.5 yrs dev time - highly disappointing!

I did the 5k for Palin - On the way out surveyed loads of 'interesting' systems, a few ELWs, loads of WWs, but after I reached the Lagoon nebula, I turned around & couldn't get home quick enough averaging 52 secs per jump on the way back just to focus on something to stave off insanity...never to venture beyond the bubble again. Even the thought of it makes me resemble Chief Inspector Dreyfuss complete with twitching eye! :p

In fact, I'd go so far as to say "Honk if you support this thread"

Wait.a.minute....
 
..... I turned around & couldn't get home quick enough averaging 52 secs per jump on the way back just to focus on something to stave off insanity...never to venture beyond the bubble again.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say "Honk if you support this thread"

Wait.a.minute....

As I currently sit 21,000 Light years out in a Cutter, exploring black holes and enjoying popcorn. :cool:
 
As I currently sit 21,000 Light years out in a Cutter, exploring black holes and enjoying popcorn. :cool:

These are the worst posts. The OP and several people have brought up valid concerns. But people love to come in and smugly say "Yeah well I can find fun in the mundane!" As though this is some master stroke statement.

Good job on having lower standards and easier bemusement, now lets talk to the actual point of the thread.

Adding more interesting content to explore is not detrimental to you as an already engaged explorer. At the worst you can ignore what is added and at its best it gives even you more fun things to do.
 
Last edited:
These are the worst posts...
Adding more interesting content to explore is not detrimental to you as an already engaged explorer. At the worst you can ignore what is added and at its best it gives even you more fun things to do.

Please allow me to apologize for triggering you, it wasn't meant to be offensive by nature, only to emphasize that there is plenty to keep you busy during exploration if your mind allows you the opportunity to do so. One of the reasons that I so rarely post is because of...well, comments like yours. If seven pages of comments so far haven't been enough to encourage folks to get out and explore, then I'll just go back to ignoring what is added and not posting anything in the future. I guess buzzkill comes in many forms, so let me apologize once more if any others out there have found my comments to be vain and counter-productive.

Please, carry on...
 
Please allow me to apologize for triggering you, it wasn't meant to be offensive by nature, only to emphasize that there is plenty to keep you busy during exploration if your mind allows you the opportunity to do so. One of the reasons that I so rarely post is because of...well, comments like yours. If seven pages of comments so far haven't been enough to encourage folks to get out and explore, then I'll just go back to ignoring what is added and not posting anything in the future. I guess buzzkill comes in many forms, so let me apologize once more if any others out there have found my comments to be vain and counter-productive.

Please, carry on...

The fact that you use the term triggered unironically is pretty telling but let me just say, this thread isn't for people who don't know what exploring is, this is for people who know entirely what exploring is and are capable of saying "well this isn't enough, there is only so much to do/see and its not enough for me. How can we make it better? What else can frontier do?"

Its not just a big circle where people who think exploring is "fine as it is" can just pat each other on the back. If you want to do so, make a thread for that.
 
I love when ppl say "it's not games fault, it's your imagination that's lacks".
That would be right in 80's.
So we need words on mission board and imagination as solution for a good game.
How about make library section in mission board where we can read books or fairytales for us without imagination powerfull enough to make our own story from few lines on mission board.
 
I love when ppl say "it's not games fault, it's your imagination that's lacks".
That would be right in 80's.
So we need words on mission board and imagination as solution for a good game.
How about make library section in mission board where we can read books or fairytales for us without imagination powerfull enough to make our own story from few lines on mission board.

Not to be beat this horse into the ground but yeah I agree. It seems like some people would be better off suited playing the original elite and really making use of their imagination to fill in the gaps.
 
If something is truly important to you, or you are truly passionate about it, then you will find a way.

If not, then you will find an excuse.

I see a lot of excuses in every one of these Exploration threads.

I also see a lot of people desperately trying to hide the fact that they clearly just want to stay in the high-chair, and be spoon-fed by Mommy. Searching on your own is not worth it, but what you really mean is that it's too much work. There are also a number of delusions floating around, such as:

-If I had better scanners, I would Explore. Not for long, you won't, because you don't do it now. Known Fact.
-If I had better scanners, I would actually look for things. Not for long, you won't, because you don't want to do it now. Also, this would quickly fall into the category of tedium. Known Fact, and Known Fact.
-That Scanner mini-game from Mass Effect 2 was great/immersive/satisfying. Clearly, you only played the game once or twice. Tell me that after 6 playthroughs, getting all upgrades each time.
-I would still like that Mass Effect 2 Scanner mini-game after using it on 100 systems. This is false, and no matter how rewarding or satisfying they made it, it would end up being tedious.
-I should be able to find things like Dyson Spheres. Why would those make sense in some random place in the middle of nowhere? Maybe they are out there, but most can't be bothered to find them.
-I think I should find things other than crashed ships/probes out in the middle of nowhere. See previous.
-If Frontier gave me a reason, I would travel more than x light-seconds from the main star to investigate. No, you won't, because you don't do it now. Known Fact.

Look - I get that Exploration can feel somewhat thin. As others have said, it has content, but limited ways in which to interact with it, or even find it. I have my own wishlist (perhaps Commander Mengy would be kind enough to post a link to his environmental ideas, which are fantastic), but just because there are things that I feel are missing, does not mean that Exploration sucks. Clearly, it doesn't for everyone, and those who enjoy it in its current form, will likely enjoy it even more as things are added. Exploration will get a de facto boost once we can land on something other than barren rocks, but there likely still won't be anything more to do on these new worlds - just more visual (maybe audio) eye candy.

I think one simple step in that direction would be to litter the galaxy (more than 1,000 light years outside the bubble) with POI's that provide scan data that sells for a lot of credits. There isn't any depth here, but at least there would be substantial reward for taking the time to find it. A simple USS in the system above the planet to let you know that there is one to be found on that planet, and it shows up like a normal POI on the radar. Some incentive to actually fly through the systems, scan the planets (and get the scanner Engineer upgrades), and find the prize. Maybe these things are already there - that would be a grand joke indeed if these things have existed since Horizons launched with stupid high payouts, but not one has been found yet.

There isn't any reason to spend significant amounts of dev time creating new assets (and background stories) for things found out in the middle of nowhere. Think about it - if you found a Dyson Sphere 25k light years out in the middle of nowhere, what would you expect to be able to do with it? You are so far out, there is no reason for anything other than a scan, and maybe some simple text. Additionally, this somewhat does not provide incentive for long-term Exploration, which is self-defeating.

One last thing that I have said multiple times elsewhere: Frontier has a very vested interest in the bulk of the population not being more than 1k light years from the bubble at any given time.

Consider that.

Riôt
 
Are there any games where exploring is actually fun? In pretty much all the space and sailing games I've played, exploring was pretty much what it is in this game.
 
I love when ppl say "it's not games fault, it's your imagination that's lacks".

Haha. When I play Minesweeper in Windows, I like to imagine I'm a navy SEAL sent ahead of the invasion force clear the only path off the Normandy beach of mines. The rest of my squad has been wiped out and I'm the only one left. The LSI's are about to hit the beach and the success or failure of D Day is in my hands alone! Uhh...let's see..only two tiles left and it's a 50/50 chance...
 
Last edited:
Actually, the psychology of gamers and game design is quite well established, and most game companies utilize this knowledge to some degree or other when designing their games and the mechanics/reward systems contained therein.

Known facts, not an uneducated guess.

You should look it up.

Riôt

Edit: I'll give you a simple example. A person does not enjoy mowing their grass. Some people do, but to this person, it's tedious and boring. They claim that the reason is because their mower is the type that is a handle, two wheels, and blades that spin because you are pushing it. They claim that if they had a powered mower, they would enjoy mowing their grass, and do it with more enthusiasm. This simply isn't true, no matter what mower you give them, because they didn't really enjoy the activity in the first place. They will enjoy the fact that they can mow the grass quicker, and easier, but that wears off quickly, and the reality that they are still doing something they don't naturally enjoy sets in, followed by tedium. Known Fact.

Your assertions are quite amusing.
 
This is my style when I am exploring. In fact I started exploring a week ago so I am not bored yet. I get Asp with 40 -50 ly jump and head straight for the goal which is nebula or something else that can be seen in galaxy map. Trip takes one or two play sessions and when I get there I'll start photoshooting. I am person that puts eye candy ahead of gameplay. I put all my nice shots in gallery and from time to time I just browse my gallery instead of playing.

I am just after these moments :D

33283760950_257ed9e964_k.jpg
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
Until 2.3 drops with the amazing stuff that we haven't seen yet ( /s) I'll continue with Freecell, Spider Solitaire and Hearts.

The instancing is better on those too! :p

- - - Updated - - -

Yep, the exploration mechanics that we all keep asking for would enable this. With better tools explorers could actually find things on their own rather than requiring CG’s or Engineers to tell us where to go, rather than Frontier flipping a switch and now our ships tell us “yep, this planet has an alien ruin on it!” simply by jumping into a system. That’s not engaging or interactive gameplay, it’s handholding, it’s easy and simple, and it’s not what we have been asking for. I believe that either Frontier doesn’t understand exploration or they just don’t want to bother developing for it, but obviously it’s just not a priority for them.

And ED isn't meant to have scripted events or a scripted story yet all CG's and story's are massively scripted but as you say and worse than that, hand holding too.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyone else find it highly ironic that they created all the billions of systems yet aren't promoting or working on exploration in any way?

Does this not render those billions of systems as just a big waste of time?

I imagine there's a crap ton of people itching to explore the galaxy. I'm waiting for it - as soon as FD can be bothered to add in a decent exploration mechanic then I'll open my wallet and pay for it. Until that time, they're not getting any more money from me. Other people can pay for the crap I never wanted in the game if they want.

400,000,000,000 and what's in it?
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
Not saying I don't want new stuff to find, but we already have stuff to scan.
  • Seismic scanner: reveals hot-spots likely to have geyser/fumarole activity
  • Mineral scanner: reveals mineral density maps (though I suppose we don't really have this yet, as mineral deposits are sparse without concentrated areas)
  • Radio/electromagnetic scanner: Reveals POI's like hidden outposts, crashed ships/satellites, etc.


Again, I absolutely want more stuff to find. But the current need for exploration tools is still there.

When you mean scan I think it's prudent to point out that it's only that in name. You literally point at the thing and wait for the game to do it for you - this isn't really getting to where we want a scanner. It'd be in the same vain of having an autopilot do combat for you except even worse. Imagine if combat was pointing at a ship for 30 seconds when it's 50km and then it blows up.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not a programmer but I have to think there is low hanging fruit that could easily be added, that would make exploration more fun. Yes, continuing to work on the foundation of the game would be great...but how about some weird easily added stuff scattered all throughout the black, to make things more interesting, while they do the more complex stuff over time?

Wouldn't it be cool to be scanning an earth planet, and strangely it looks like it has the ruins of a city in it...when suddenly a new contact appears...oh crap it's a crystalline entity and it wants to eat me!!! In a nebula you see a signal source and it's an alien city-ship, long derelict, with a relic worth 100 million credits. Wormhole discovered, worth 20 million credits, but that is 200 million if it's stable...so you travel through it, and the other side is NOT STABLE, now you are stuck 40k light years from home and are a voyager making your way home.

IDK seems this stuff wouldn't be overly hard to implement. But maybe it is, idk.

What you're asking for is HUGE lol. I don't know where to begin - you need an algorithm for the ruins to PG them as you can't have them the same. Then you need them to be using different art styles and different rock types to look any good then you need to be able to render and fly onto the planet then you need to work on the entity itself and how it behaves so it'll need it's own AI routine not to mention adding it into the BGS to even appear in the first place and that's before we start adding in wormholes lol.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
Please allow me to apologize for triggering you, it wasn't meant to be offensive by nature, only to emphasize that there is plenty to keep you busy during exploration if your mind allows you the opportunity to do so. One of the reasons that I so rarely post is because of...well, comments like yours. If seven pages of comments so far haven't been enough to encourage folks to get out and explore, then I'll just go back to ignoring what is added and not posting anything in the future. I guess buzzkill comes in many forms, so let me apologize once more if any others out there have found my comments to be vain and counter-productive.

Please, carry on...

If your mind allows you the opportunity? Is this some passive aggressive insult because it reads like one. Obviously there isn't plenty to do out there because we all know pretty much exactly what's coded into the game. So we know all the planet types, all the star types and all the rocky landable planets and all the black holes, etc. This isn't a draw for anyone who's seen them a hundred times before and why would it be.

Why would 7 pages of comments encourage anything? Like I just said, we all know exactly what we'll find out there. Nobody is interested in blasting rocks to make a few crappy items or dune buggy driving for the 1000th time. As far as planets go, we've all seen the same round jpegs in space a trillion times and they're not that great tbh. So when you say you have plenty to do, we can beleive you but then if you're happy dipping your hand into a bag of marbles and being surprised by each one that comes out even though they repeat occasionally then that's on you. Other people want more stuff to do than just sight seeing I'm afraid.
 
Unfortunately, exploring away from the bubble means you can't have lots of pewpew - and that's what sells right now. Sure Frontier could release a new season 3.0 - The Lost Frontier - or something - and show lots of nice vistas, unusual planets, a few odd looking ruins. But will they sell as much as BIG GUNS! HUGE MEGASHIPS! LOOK-AT-ME CLOTHING! HOLO-ME NEW .. STUFF!

No.. and thqat is why exploration is taking a back burner. It's all in pursuit of the mighty profit. Even the latest ruins thing, and the viral advertising campaign involving not-Thargoids is purely profit driven.

Makes me sick to see what was a promising game, just turning into CoD-SpaceShips.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
Actually, the psychology of gamers and game design is quite well established, and most game companies utilize this knowledge to some degree or other when designing their games and the mechanics/reward systems contained therein.

Known facts, not an uneducated guess.

You should look it up.

Riôt

Edit: I'll give you a simple example. A person does not enjoy mowing their grass. Some people do, but to this person, it's tedious and boring. They claim that the reason is because their mower is the type that is a handle, two wheels, and blades that spin because you are pushing it. They claim that if they had a powered mower, they would enjoy mowing their grass, and do it with more enthusiasm. This simply isn't true, no matter what mower you give them, because they didn't really enjoy the activity in the first place. They will enjoy the fact that they can mow the grass quicker, and easier, but that wears off quickly, and the reality that they are still doing something they don't naturally enjoy sets in, followed by tedium. Known Fact.

you need to look up the words "conjecture", "claims", "assertion" and "baseless" as that's all your post is and please spare us the armchair psychology. You don't even get the point of the thread which you need to do before commenting on it.

All the "known facts" you've just posted up are known facts yes - describing YOU!

- - - Updated - - -

His post is probably the most vapid I've ever read, solid /r/iamverysmart material. It had absolutely no substance other than "WELL I CLEARLY FIND DULL THINGS INTERESTING AREN'T I SPECIAL!"

LMAO would rep again if I could but this really hits the nail on the head.

- - - Updated - - -

This is my style when I am exploring. In fact I started exploring a week ago so I am not bored yet. I get Asp with 40 -50 ly jump and head straight for the goal which is nebula or something else that can be seen in galaxy map. Trip takes one or two play sessions and when I get there I'll start photoshooting. I am person that puts eye candy ahead of gameplay. I put all my nice shots in gallery and from time to time I just browse my gallery instead of playing.

I am just after these moments :D


You got that gallery on the web? Would love to see the pics and I can get my head around wanting the eye candy on this game as it's stunning. If you're a photographer then there's a drive right there to go out and find amazing pics (and the new external cam will make that even better).

Not too long ago there were hundreds of people massively dead against the external cam. Weird how not one of them has posted a thread to get rid of it.

- - - Updated - - -

Unfortunately, exploring away from the bubble means you can't have lots of pewpew - and that's what sells right now. Sure Frontier could release a new season 3.0 - The Lost Frontier - or something - and show lots of nice vistas, unusual planets, a few odd looking ruins. But will they sell as much as BIG GUNS! HUGE MEGASHIPS! LOOK-AT-ME CLOTHING! HOLO-ME NEW .. STUFF!

No.. and thqat is why exploration is taking a back burner. It's all in pursuit of the mighty profit. Even the latest ruins thing, and the viral advertising campaign involving not-Thargoids is purely profit driven.

Makes me sick to see what was a promising game, just turning into CoD-SpaceShips.

But we've just seen the audience NMS had! lol
 
I must agree with OP. Sporting a model of the milky way free to explore and then making exploration about choosing one of maybe the three most viable ship types, slapping two kinds of scanners and heatsinks on them and going to watch space doughnuts turning for infinity is somewhat... underwhelming.

I get that the procgen approach is both blessing and curse. Without handcrafted content, they'll have a hard time to provide certain polished experiences, but it allows for actually believable space to explore, that would be unobtainable with the standard "handcraft" approach. Still, there must be more than a turning space doughtnut and combing the desert to find POIs, which are mostly severely limited in interactivity.


Has anybody played Zelda: Breath of the Wild? it's a totally different type of game, but one of its main attractions is also exploration. That game pulls it of so bloody goddamn well. Admittedly, its entirely handcrafted and playtested to a level of polish Frontier can only dream of (Nintendo's effort spend on playtesting must be huge for this to have as little glitches as it does and accordingly the budget for that game was probably nothing to scoff at), so the comparison is hardly fair. But when you abstract from the visuals and fluff in BotW, there are certain aspects in it, that I feel would complement exploration mechanics very well in Elite. Whether they're possible or not is a completely different question...


For one, there's something useful to find everywhere in BotW. Even if its only a small bug to collect with a simple button press and the very basic mechanic of either sneaking up on it or changing equipment to something silent. Why is such an utterly trivial thing useful? Because it can be used for receipes (quiet similar to the synthesis actually, only in useful), can be sold to merchants or can be traded for useful equipment, provided you've discovered the right NPCs. It feels useful because it has actual use down the line and collecting it is satisfying on a basic "chasing things" level. The discoveries are however hierarchical in terms of usefulness and how involving they are, so there aren't constant lows of all the same "tiny reward" stuff to find or constant highs of all the same "ultra rewarding mega" stuff, making them again boring. Elite's materials would qualify as "low" reward, similar to finding a bug or shooting a deer in BotW. But because Elite overrelies on RNG, most of the time, materials aren't even considerable as a reward. Bloody great, another piece of carbon to clutter my limited material inventory and that's the reward for spending 10 minutes crawling around in the SRV? How much time spend gathering specific things to get that lvl. 3 jumponium? Same for finding a system with only one sun or a bunch of ice worlds. Zero interactiveness. Close to zero reward. There simply is no balance between what amounts to mindless farming things and finding things that feel rewarding. About 90% of things in Elite are simply junk, and the useful 10% have to be actively farmed to have them in the required quantity.

On the other end of the scale would be abondoned settlements in Elite, Alien ruins or Thargoid structures. That is to say, more involved and rewarding discoveries. But so far, the interactiveness is severly limited to the point of not offering an ingame reward at all, neither in terms of associated game mechanics nor in terms of items to be obtained. Ancient ruins? A two month collective community effort to haul around combinations of doodads and fill in Excel sheets for a bugged mission. Even with the solution available, that mission would take up a good hour+ of awkwardly nudging around artifacts with the SRV. Seriously? How overcomplicated and uncomfortable can you make a simple switch puzzle? I guess if all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. All we have is cargo scooping, scanning and shooting, therefore any mission Frontier designs has to fit into those woefully limited mechanics... somehow. Not to mention inspecting load times and combing the desert to even find the ruins, because the game has no useful ingame means to give players any sort of direction? And that's the currently most intricate case of exploration mechanics Elite Dangerous offers. What was that about abandoned outposts with intriguing log messages? Very cool concept I have to say, but the interactiveness of these things is... scanning and reading messages? Hardly any interactivity or ingame reward at all then. Same for crashed alien ships and barnacles. Static meshes to be scanned and sometimes farmed for certain materials.


It feels like nobody among Frontier's game designers has ever taken the time to sit down for two whole consequitive weeks and play the game in their work time (yes, that's where they ought to do it, it's their job, not a mandatory hobby to pursue after a full work day), to check whether they've build a good game loop and whether they'd stand to voluntarily keep playing for another 8h/day another two weeks, because they enjoyed it so much.

It's really frustrating, because the game has such ridiculous potential with the whole galaxy setup for exploration. But then it comes down to taking nice screenshots, watching space doughnuts, grinding RNG distributed doodads and raising counters. There's the couple of aspects Frontier tends to nail, usually involving basic vehicle mechanics, but the game build around those is still the often cited "two inches" (maybe three with Horizons) deep as it ever was.
 
Last edited:
You got that gallery on the web? Would love to see the pics and I can get my head around wanting the eye candy on this game as it's stunning. If you're a photographer then there's a drive right there to go out and find amazing pics (and the new external cam will make that even better).

Not too long ago there were hundreds of people massively dead against the external cam. Weird how not one of them has posted a thread to get rid of it.

I have lot's of bug report pics also in my gallery. Here are some of the shots I have selected to public view. Newest are at the bottom. So I wouldn't call it exploring I guess but rather photoshooting :D

https://www.flickandshare.com/g/n2rfQb
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom