A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim
- Thread starter Walt Kerman
- Start date
Cool man, thanks. I've been at this so long, I don't remember how things were, or seem to know how they are.
And of course, in a few hours, maybe, some cz's will spawn. And stay there. Maybe.
I flew within 1000ls of all bodies, and none are there yet.Has FD commented on the fact that the BGS is acting crazy? We have multiple cmdrs running a combined 100+ missions per day in one of our systems and the net result is influence loss. The same system that pre-2.3 would net 4-5% daily gains. We even stepped it up, with 4 or 5 cmdrs running 30+ missions each as well as the usual effort from the rest of the group. Net result...influence loss. Something is definitely NOT working as intended. Any word from FD? What have been other cmdrs experience so far post 2.3? Has influence been acting strangely?
More details may be easier to be able to help on that.
What is the system population? Is it exploited by a power, which one? what are the other factions in the systems? Government, allegiance and current states? How much traffic, and can you account for much?
In certain areas like Hudson, Federation factions have a naturally easy path to gain influence, and if you are struggling where there are multiple factions in boom or other states like outbreak where donations are easy they could be gaining as well, resulting in a tougher fight. If its in a high-traffic system it could just be ambient effects of other people doing things. There are alot of variables that could account for any number of things.
What is the system population? Is it exploited by a power, which one? what are the other factions in the systems? Government, allegiance and current states? How much traffic, and can you account for much?
In certain areas like Hudson, Federation factions have a naturally easy path to gain influence, and if you are struggling where there are multiple factions in boom or other states like outbreak where donations are easy they could be gaining as well, resulting in a tougher fight. If its in a high-traffic system it could just be ambient effects of other people doing things. There are alot of variables that could account for any number of things.
I put in a bug report about missions not giving any influence. Lots of time waisted by grinding missions....
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/344299-Completing-missions-gets-no-influence-in-system
I am not new to the BGS. I have been tracking our faction for months (we are only present in 5 systems in total). I track our faction influence in all of our systems on a daily basis. Since the patch we have been unable to increase influence in ANY of the systems that we have a presence. In fact in one of the systems that we are in, there is a faction in "Lockdown" that is gaining on us. Despite the fact that this faction owns no assets in the system and is in a lockdown state. Meanwhile we are running 50+ missions daily and losing ground. Pre-2.3 this was NEVER the case. Yes, I do realize that there could 'all of a sudden' be numerous cmdrs in system doing all kinds of things to create these issues. But I have always subscribed to the theory of Occam's razor. The simplest explanation is the best. Pre 2.3 no issues pushing influence around as needed. Post 2.3 no amount of missions (whether they be +inf ++inf or +++inf missions) have ANY effect on influence gain within ANY system that our faction is present. Quite simply put...something is not working within the BGS.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^+1^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have to add to this that everything i am expecting to happen, happens.
Is your fraction independant? and is the fraction in lockdown aligned with a super power? From the recent patch notes https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/341916-2-3-The-Commanders-Changelog
FD have changed the way bounties work in that super power bounties are distributed to fractions aligned with that super power. So if your in an area of high bounty hunting activity and independent you could be losing out to that. Might be worth checking the bounty stats for a while. Also if your fraction bounty hunts with KWS's don't hand in the super power vouchers in your local system as that would be counter productive. Remember it's not the value of the voucher but the number of vouchers handed in.
looks as if some people experience this, and others don't. which reads like a bug.
i suggest filing a ticket additionally to that bug report, to make sure things are looked at.
re-reading the patch-notes yesterday, here is what i came up with, what might be the case:
- change of murder/shipkill-effects and bountie effects + change of SUPERPOWER-bounties
a) as we do know, the influence gain from bounties was (is) massively transaction/claims based
b) as we do know, a sideeffect of BHing was influence gain via shipkills of all other factions - that has been reduced
c) as we do know, there is some diminuishing return in place if a faction has a high influence level
d) as we do know, influence gains are shared as influence loss by all other factions in relation to their influence level
e) as we do know, there is a soft-cap on maximum influence gains depending on population size.
coming from there, i think what might be the case:
1. the new superpower bounty mechanic treats a single superpower bounty claim redeem as a transaction for all alligned factions
2. influence loss/gain via shipkills was massively reduced, so high influential factions don't gain influence as a sideeffect of bountyhunting
3. influence effects of bounty claims was upped - each superpower bounty redeem will cost the high influence factions influence, as their part of loss of what another superpower alligned faction gains is the largest
4. as there are diminuishing returns on high influence level, a high influential superpower alligned faction gains less from a superpower redeem than a small one, resulting in a loss
???5.??? if superpower bounties are counted as a redeem for all alligned factions, it massively ups the number of actions in a system, making it harder to move the system at all.
i suggest, we collect info on those factions and systems which suffer from what is a perceived bug. like: superpower, traffic, bounty hunter report, superpower-alligned factions in system, influence levels, swings.
the situation remembers me on two occasions where i had to "battle" wings of (non-bgs-interested) bountyhunters for system control - might be all wrong though, and i'm jumping from similarities to conclusions.
Very few things trigger my homicidal instinct like "but it works for me"
If something is reported in detail, it must be happening. The point is why it happens somewhere and not somewhere else. My main suspect at this time is in fact bounty activity - the two cases I am aware of, including mine, involve a very high level of reported cashed bounties. For the people who do not see anormal activity, how many bounties are cashed in your systems?
If something is reported in detail, it must be happening. The point is why it happens somewhere and not somewhere else. My main suspect at this time is in fact bounty activity - the two cases I am aware of, including mine, involve a very high level of reported cashed bounties. For the people who do not see anormal activity, how many bounties are cashed in your systems?
_trent_
Volunteer Moderator
I'm still reserving judgement on how much things have changed. There have been some unexpected gains and losses since 2.3 went live, but these things have happened from time to time in the past.
The only thing that has surprised me is that we went into a second day of recovery for a recent election. I thought conflicts only had a one day recovering state. Once we've had another conflict or two under our belts we can see if this is an anomaly.
The only thing that has surprised me is that we went into a second day of recovery for a recent election. I thought conflicts only had a one day recovering state. Once we've had another conflict or two under our belts we can see if this is an anomaly.
I can confirm that war still has 1 day recovery.
_trent_
Volunteer Moderator
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As an independent Cooperative we get wars most of the time. This is only our second election in 5 months so for that reason I'm not certain if the 2 day recovery is a feature of elections or not.
it's a feature of elections. we have quite a few elections currently.
Understand what you're saying.. nobody is saying these things aren't happening... but I'll draw your attention to this bit that Macklroy said:
I won't speak for anyone else, but I was certainly responding to this and yes, things seem to be working as expected in my experience so far.
That doesn't mean there isn't a possible bug, but it helps demonstrate that the BGS isn't outright 100% broken for everyone, unlike on some occasions where it actually has been completely broken for everyone in times gone by. People responding with "Working for me" are just trying to provide more info.
Our experience in 2.3 to date is that missions are still effective. They would be missions that are known to be effective given the faction state. Not saying that it's not happening, just that we haven't experienced it yet.
Ask the obvious questions to eliminate known causes of ineffective missions: faction states and mission types.
Possible that some mission types inf levels have been tweaked or that their ineffective states have been changed. It could just be a side effect of the new bounty/murder changes upsetting equilibrium.
We don't have enough data yet to be sure of trends and what the new normal is!
Ask the obvious questions to eliminate known causes of ineffective missions: faction states and mission types.
Possible that some mission types inf levels have been tweaked or that their ineffective states have been changed. It could just be a side effect of the new bounty/murder changes upsetting equilibrium.
We don't have enough data yet to be sure of trends and what the new normal is!
My 2.3 experience summed up. I've moved to bounty hunting until the next patch, because the high value missions I was getting previous to 2.3 (million plus for cargo delivery inside of 20-30LY from any of my primary six stations in Empire space) have disappeared. Range had been 800k to 3.5M. Today in 2.3, that range is 200k-600k for the same kind of missions. I'm Elite in trade coupled with allied with the empire factions in all six stations, which used to count for something. My primary station (Zander Dock) is still in a boom state but it's hard to tell.
_trent_
Volunteer Moderator
Thanks. I'll remember that for future elections. We wasted a bit of time and energy over the weekend and ended up overshooting because I had expected a 1 day recovering state.