Star Citizen Thread v6

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Or they can move the window. ;)

Well, yeah, but through this iteration of the schedule CIG claims the Evocati testing period is supposed to start between 20th of July and 3rd of August, not that it's supposed to last between those two dates.

Anyway, there was a supposed leak last week: https://www.reddit.com/r/Starcitize..._leverett_we_wont_start_evocati_30_this_week/, saying that preparing the build for a release takes around three weeks, and they have started the process somewhere between 10th to 16th of July.
 
What answer?This very same thing happened with 2.0. Everyone said it was never going to happen, they werent going to deliver, blah blah blah, and they did.

You got your history wrong bud. AFAIK it was NOT about "2.0 will never happen" but the issue was rather "where the almighty chris IS 2.0 at all?" and then they released a sorry excuse for 2.0, full of bugs, hardly working and missing a lot of promised features. Remember that? Yeah, look it up.

SC is in a perfectly fine state for its 4.5 years of developement.

Keep working on those math skills :D Official development start was in 2012 and we have the chairman on record stating that development was underway for a year by that time making the starting point 2011. No amount of refactoring and iterating will change these simple facts.

No other open world game of its scope or budget would be much further.

You are right, other companies release a full game with less funding by that time :)

From my experiance with smaller scale projects, the game is progressing perfectly fine.

How can you say that with a straight face when tiny development teams with a fraction of that funding are able to catch up to SC and even pass it in certain areas even tho they started afterwards?

They are getting groundwork done, the company is growing, thier money isnt running out.

To be honest we dont know that or do you have any sources for that "growing" part? Also the same for "money running out". The only one who would know that is CR+Co, are you one of those people?


I can only say with certainty that if I ever would ve been a serious backer of Star Citizen I would definitely be angry by now. Angry at being held on for years after the deadlines, angry at how slow development progresses, angry how after years and years of waiting there still is no game out there for me to enjoy even tho I probably have dropped 20 times into it already which I spent on other games which I profoundly enjoyed in my past. In hindsight I m really REALLY glad I never backed it. But I feel your frustration...just....the people telling you how the project really stands are the wrong people to vent your frustration on. You should take your complains to CRoberts and Co and I have no doubt many do exactly that but you dont read about that eh? And the official complains (of which there are many mind you) get downvoted, moderated and battled by the fanatics in other places. Too bad it doesnt work here.
 
For balance,
I would like to say that Star Citizen is going to be fantastic.

Clearly people like MTBFritz above, a self confirmed non (serious) backer so I presume he/she does not actually play in the current development version is talking from a position of ignorance. Its actually okay considering where it is in development, which is very different from where the dissers think it should be. As I say even DS said it would take 5 years and 150,000,000 to make it
 
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For balance,
I would like to say that Star Citizen is going to be fantastic.

Clearly people like MTBFritz above, a self confirmed non (serious) backer so I presume he/she does not actually play in the current development version is talking from a position of ignorance. Its actually okay considering where it is in development, which is very different from where the dissers think it should be. As I say even DS said it would take 5 years and 150,000,000 to make it

Chris Roberts said it would be done sooner, with less money. And it isn't even remotely finished yet...
 
It could very well be fantastic in the eyes of many people.

It's possible it's going to be the BDSSE for many.

Until we can launch it - absolutely nobody knows.
 
You got your history wrong bud. AFAIK it was NOT about "2.0 will never happen" but the issue was rather "where the almighty chris IS 2.0 at all?" and then they released a sorry excuse for 2.0, full of bugs, hardly working and missing a lot of promised features. Remember that? Yeah, look it up.



Keep working on those math skills :D Official development start was in 2012 and we have the chairman on record stating that development was underway for a year by that time making the starting point 2011. No amount of refactoring and iterating will change these simple facts.



You are right, other companies release a full game with less funding by that time :)



How can you say that with a straight face when tiny development teams with a fraction of that funding are able to catch up to SC and even pass it in certain areas even tho they started afterwards?



To be honest we dont know that or do you have any sources for that "growing" part? Also the same for "money running out". The only one who would know that is CR+Co, are you one of those people?


I can only say with certainty that if I ever would ve been a serious backer of Star Citizen I would definitely be angry by now. Angry at being held on for years after the deadlines, angry at how slow development progresses, angry how after years and years of waiting there still is no game out there for me to enjoy even tho I probably have dropped 20 times into it already which I spent on other games which I profoundly enjoyed in my past. In hindsight I m really REALLY glad I never backed it. But I feel your frustration...just....the people telling you how the project really stands are the wrong people to vent your frustration on. You should take your complains to CRoberts and Co and I have no doubt many do exactly that but you dont read about that eh? And the official complains (of which there are many mind you) get downvoted, moderated and battled by the fanatics in other places. Too bad it doesnt work here.

Even the mood of heady euphoria normally effusive on Spectrum has been taken down several notches. There are a lot of unhappy campers floating around there in recent weeks and the fanatics are being being beaten down in every questioning thread going...it's almost become like being in here where reasoning folks are winning the arguments by presenting facts :)

CiG 'community management' is absent as always on their own community forum...since they're busy making hype and advertising videos where nobody can ask embarrassing questions. The main thoroughfare at the moment is the '5-10 systems on release debacle' as was recently penned in the article by German magazine, Gamestar.
 
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It could very well be fantastic in the eyes of many people.

It's possible it's going to be the BDSSE for many.

Until we can launch it - absolutely nobody knows.

True ASP
It could be a fantastic game or a fantastic failure. Its all about the netcode as far as I can see.

I'm just adding balance to an unbalanced forum, but you did it better than me buddy
 
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...because god forbid watching gameplay videos and streams is not enough to form an opinion and making up my mind if I want to purchase it or not. In order to have a "valid" opinion I need to buy it....logic. Neither do I speak from a position of "ignorance" (in fact I dare to say I know a lot more about the project and its development then many "serious" backers do) but CR and his peers are known to mix up well-known terms and make up stuff all the time so I shouldnt be surprised by that statement.
 
...because god forbid watching gameplay videos and streams is not enough to form an opinion and making up my mind if I want to purchase it or not. In order to have a "valid" opinion I need to buy it....logic. Neither do I speak from a position of "ignorance" (in fact I dare to say I know a lot more about the project and its development then many "serious" backers do) but CR and his peers are known to mix up well-known terms and make up stuff all the time so I shouldnt be surprised by that statement.

Exactly what I said, please do not take this as a personal insult.

Do not judge a man until you have walked an hour in his shoes, Or perhaps played his game. Imagine if a magazine reviewed a game or a car without playing or driving it.
Or a film show on TV reviewed a film without watching it,
I do go into SC every few days/weeks my valid opinion is that it will be fantastic,

Out of interest any news on DS, not heard from him in a few weeks
 
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Thats because the features we have are signifincatly more developed than thier first design, and they have added item 2.0, which require refactoring of almost every part of the game. A multi-million dollar budget that isnt 90% advertising allows this. This isnt your typical AAA title where they play things safe and do the least work possible to launch ASAP.

Because "refactoring" almost the entire game after 3 or 4 years of development (long after the scope increased, so that's no excuse) is somehow indicative of sound development practices. And they have no motivation to launch ASAP because they already have the money, or at least what's left of it, and people keep giving them more, which ends as soon as development is "done" (microtransactions notwithstanding, although if the finished game ended up being bad, as it's likely to be, no one would buy them). It's almost as if they have an incentive to not finish the game. Most game development, like most commercial activities, follows a pattern of having to deliver a product in order to recoup expenses and, hopefully, profit. It's hard to argue that CIG's approach is better (for anyone except the people making bank off it like Roberts and his cohorts) as long as no product is delivered.

This very same thing happened with 2.0. Everyone said it was never going to happen, they werent going to deliver, blah blah blah

No, they didn't. Show me any evidence at all of everyone saying that. A handful of forum posts, if you can even find them, is not "everyone". I know I never said that, for a start. Meanwhile what was delivered was amateur hour trash, and still is over 18 months later.

This is the community who calls Sean Murray a liar for doing the exact same thing David Braben did, talking about the future of his game.

No, it's not the "exact same thing" at all. I don't even have a problem with NMS, I think it's adequate, and I don't think the game deserved the nonsense that surrounded its release, but Murray is on the record making claims that turned out to be false. Not things he hoped to implement, but that turned out to be impractical, or out-of-context quotes about animals or whatever. Straightforward false statements. The only reason Roberts gets away with the rubbish he spouts is because CIG continue to fail to deliver a product which can be measured against the claims. With good reason.

SC is in a perfectly fine state for its 4.5 years of developement. No other open world game of its scope or budget would be much further. As a consumer you rarely see what an in-progress game that isnt constantly trying to look like a live build, looks like. You really arent in a place to say how good the game is doing. Only an SE, really one that has worked on large projects, can tell you. From my experiance with smaller scale projects, the game is progressing perfectly fine.

So what makes you, someone without large project experience, qualified to claim the project is doing well? You are no more of an authority than any of the people you're dismissing and your claim that development is "in a perfectly fine state" has just as much value as anyone's claims to the contrary. Except it has less, because it's not consistent with reality.

They are getting groundwork done, the company is growing, thier money isnt running out.

Oh, do you have access to their accounts? Perhaps you would like to share them with the rest of us backers who were promised them in the original TOS? I would suggest their money is continuously running out, unless they're not spending any at all, it's just that people keep giving them more (for some inexplicable reason).

Perhaps the biggest problem is maybe you dont understand modern game development works.

Maybe you don't. I don't think Roberts does. Just because you're a fanatic doesn't make you any more qualified than anyone else, and before you claim some sort of tangential game development experience, imagine if a critic did that, because you would just dismiss their experience as somehow irrelevant given the "scope" of what CIG is attempting.

But thats not how modern game development works anymore. There is a third step you dont see till the very end. You have designers who tell the programmers, the game needs x. Then the programmers make x work. Then they go to a different set of people, i call then "content designers" actual titles vary in the industry, and figure out what levels of control they need. Then the programmers create tools for the content designers to make the actual game. Which means the meat of the game is created almost at the very end.

This is just you attempting to work backwards from how development on SC has proceeded and describe it as some sort of legitimate process. I'm surprised you didn't include steps like "outsource a bunch of stuff, then throw it away when you fail to integrate it with the in-house content and have developers bolt together whatever you have laying around as a substitute". Because that's how the AAA pros do it, right?

You see some of this with thier solar system creationt tool with how easy it is to now create a working system, thier planet creation tool and how they have really simply tools with a lot of automation that make things extremely quick and painless. Once all these tools are created and all the functionality is there, then the meat of the game will follow in 9 months to a year. Maybe less with the procedural systems being in the game. Taking that into account, the state of the game at 4.5 years and thier dedication to quality and getting things exactly how they want it, its exactly where it should be.

If it's so easy to create a working system, why haven't they delivered one yet? And why, when 3.0 finally appears, whenever that is, will it only be a portion of a system?
And when do you think that magic "once all these tools are created" point is going to be reached? Because people like you have been claiming that CIG has already reached that point for years, in their own attempts to justify the lack of progress.
 
What answer? I dont visit every day and several pages are added a day so any converstaions i may have started im not searching for. If its the last one i remember i did give you an answer. Your reply didnt hold any water. Delays are not planned, so of course at the time of estimating a date they arent going to say, "there is going to be a delay". That happens when the delay happens and not before. If its the one about not every featuring being in 3.0 and pushed to 3.1/3.2/ Thats because the features we have are signifincatly more developed than thier first design, and they have added item 2.0, which require refactoring of almost every part of the game. A multi-million dollar budget that isnt 90% advertising allows this. This isnt your typical AAA title where they play things safe and do the least work possible to launch ASAP. These guys are willing to delay things and of people who were never going to be a good addition to the community to begin with, for a better end product for the actual fans of the game.
I don't think you know what you are answering even to... Your post makes no sense if you are answering me. I even quoted my reply to you on my post so please... just answer that and BTW no, a delay of 1 year and a half without any information more than "It's already in the game" is not normal in any case and much less when the only info we got on that subject was from a magazine maaaany months later.

And BTW dont talk about my views when you don't have a clue about me or my views, it doesn't help you in any way.

This was my post to you:
Did they announced the delay of SM or why it happened? (I'm talking in that moment, not the interview a magazine made more than a year later)


Communication is not CIG's best skill...
Nothing more and nothing less
SC is in a perfectly fine state for its 4.5 years of developement. No other open world game of its scope or budget would be much further. As a consumer you rarely see what an in-progress game that isnt constantly trying to look like a live build, looks like. You really arent in a place to say how good the game is doing. Only an SE, really one that has worked on large projects, can tell you. From my experiance with smaller scale projects, the game is progressing perfectly fine. They are getting groundwork done, the company is growing, thier money isnt running out.
Game Developer here, when you don't know how the core mechanics about professions will be this later in the development process and you don't show them to your testers... you have a big problem. Those mechanics should have been in our hands even as a prototype, even as hardcoded just for the sake of testing what is or is not fun for us the players. And is one of the reasons you let people playing and using those same mechanics in the alpha and even first in the F&F alpha phase for many MMOs and other games.

So sorry, until I see how the gameplay works and how those mechanics, that we have no clue off, work I will not be that brave to assert what you say. And I'm avoiding a lot of stuff just to keep this short. I can give them a break in many things, even understand why they do some things that I do not like or that I wouldn't do, but not on everything.
Perhaps the biggest problem is maybe you dont understand modern game development works.
Please don't make me laugh that hard, is late here.

For balance,
I would like to say that Star Citizen is going to be fantastic.

Clearly people like MTBFritz above, a self confirmed non (serious) backer so I presume he/she does not actually play in the current development version is talking from a position of ignorance. Its actually okay considering where it is in development, which is very different from where the dissers think it should be. As I say even DS said it would take 5 years and 150,000,000 to make it
It can be fantastic, but fanatics in either side will not help it to be any good.

I am a backer and I don't think is in a good place or atleast we don't really know for sure, 3.0 could have been in a good place last christmas, then it could have been great having 3.0 to surpass the idiocy they made with SM. But right know they are late in delivering, and they really need to prove that they have been doing something that works. SC and the backers don't need more ships to buy for real money, they need a working game. Not more videos, not more trailers, just something to play and say ok, this is fun. Okay this is how this(whatever it is) will work. Simple as that.
 
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Exactly what I said, please do not take this as a personal insult.

Do not judge a man until you have walked an hour in his shoes, Or perhaps played his game. Imagine if a magazine reviewed a game or a car without playing or driving it.
Or a film show on TV reviewed a film without watching it,
I do go into SC every few days/weeks my valid opinion is that it will be fantastic,

Out of interest any news on DS, not heard from him in a few weeks

Sorry, but I don't consider your opinion 'valid', because you haven't played the finished game and accordingly can't say whether it will be 'fantastic' or not.
 
I was very impressed with Star Citizen. It's shaping up nicely. Spent this past Sunday with my mates playing the game with all of us in a Vanguard Hoplite. We found eight other players and were doing combat exercises. 2 teams against one another to defend a space station or assault the space station. It was a blast!

The design of the ships really show that they have a person or staff that are or where involved in aviation. The ship designs just make more sense to me than what's presented in Elite Dangerous and every ship is relevant. No need to upgrade as ships aren't really outclassed by other types.

I came back to ED disgruntled about the Federal Dropship still not having soldiers, tanks, or APC's to drop.

Asking myself why doesn't the Federal and Imperial powers have a say in where their capital ships get utilized?

And why isn't there a more direct combat system for taking territory?

The SC game engine still isn't optimized and needs some tweaks. The ED system is still far superior there as well as the expanse of its' world, but I never felt like the SC world needed to be huge. 8 people in one ship made for a very interactive and interpersonal experience!

I already bought a Polaris but given our romp around in the Vanguard Hoplite, I'm thinking about trading it in for a Carrack. :)
 
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Lovely! I'm glad you had fun.

Now did any of the players involved manage to capture some gameplay?

Hell, not that I know of, but I'll ask around and will make sure to see about doing so next time we can all get together with our Alienware laptops!

It's very impressive for a Beta. If they manage to get it all optimized without bugs or glitches for unscrupulous players to exploit, it's going to be sick! :D
 
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Hell, not that I know of but I'll ask around and will make sure to see about doing so next time we can all get together with our Alienware laptops!

Very interesting.

Star Citizen runs like cured concrete on me and my friends rigs - and they are desktops with significant bits of kit in them.

I even tried it on a Razer Blade Pro - and that was pretty awful - but there I wouldn't say it's CIG's fault.

Maybe the secret to a wonderful Star Citizen Experience is a rebadged Dell.

And they have entered Beta? Great news!
 
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