General / Off-Topic Trump: Legal Issues (was The Testimony of James Comey)

[Don Alvarez]

Out of curiosity, is that based on anything or just something that fits your worldview?

No, I found it:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always vote for the candidate promising the most benefits from the treasury…”
- Attributed to Alexander Tytler

 

[Don Alvarez]

There is a massive anti-democratic streak over there, leading to another bizarre phrase they keep repeating - "The United States is a not a democracy, but a republic".

What's bizarre about it? That is true, if we are discussing forms of government it is important to recognize there are differences between the two.

 

[Minonian]

No, I found it:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always vote for the candidate promising the most benefits from the treasury…”
- Attributed to Alexander Tytler

Until you understand where its leads. After that you will not going to belíve to the empty promises.

 

[Ian Skippy]

No, I found it:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always vote for the candidate promising the most benefits from the treasury…”
- Attributed to Alexander Tytler

Would you be so kind as to direct your ability for critical thought to that quote? And I am ignoring that a 10s google search suggests it is most likely misattributed to Tytler (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alexander_Fraser_Tytler), which reduces it to 'something someone said someone else said centuries ago, but didn't.'

 

[Don Alvarez]

Would you be so kind as to direct your ability for critical thought to that quote?

No. You just asked if I'd based my earlier statement on something I'd actually heard. I found it for you. You can analyze it if you want, to me it is just satire, whoever said it.

 

[FuzzySpider]

'something someone said someone else said centuries ago, but didn't.'

That is going on my gravestone.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Would you be so kind as to direct your ability for critical thought to that quote? And I am ignoring that a 10s google search suggests it is most likely misattributed to Tytler (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alexander_Fraser_Tytler), which reduces it to 'something someone said someone else said centuries ago, but didn't.'

If you showed any of those 17/18th century guys this here, their head would most likely implode, they'd call an exorcist or just jump off a cliff.
[video=youtube;u8anUKyjT4E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8anUKyjT4E[/video]

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Well this just got real.

US intel sources have revealed to WaPo that North Korea has miniaturized nukes that can fit on the missiles. According to the DIA. Dont know much about that agency. Is it like the CIA but newer?

This pretty much crushes the value of the global sanctions that just got passed: the timeline has just jumped up.

So WHY is this in the US press? It's not in keeping with the Trumpian bragging about their (legit) diplomatic success of the sanctions, so we may infer that
A) it's not official US Govt position and therefore more likely to be true.
B) it's not preWar agitprop as we got before the Iraq debacle, because there is a real diplomatic effort presently underway, and the military really don't want that fight.

The point of this seems to me to simply be to increase anxiety and undermine the Admin.'s success at the UN. It's an extremely dangerous game to play, as an unstable President may become pressured to act prematurely.

 

[Minonian]

If this true, than it's game over, and N Korea Won.

 

[Morbad]

So WHY is this in the US press? It's not in keeping with the Trumpian bragging about their (legit) diplomatic success of the sanctions

Why wouldn't it be in the press? It's relatively major news, and certainly sensational.

The reality of US journalistic freedom may fall well short of the ideal, but neither Trump, nor any single group/entity, has overriding control over it. If it will sell advertisement time, it will be in the news, no matter who it may reflect poorly on...especially if it's at least partially true.

an unstable President may become pressured to act prematurely.

Glad I don't live in Seoul.

 

[Arry]

Well this just got real.

US intel sources have revealed to WaPo that North Korea has miniaturized nukes that can fit on the missiles. According to the DIA. Dont know much about that agency. Is it like the CIA but newer?

This pretty much crushes the value of the global sanctions that just got passed: the timeline has just jumped up.

So WHY is this in the US press? It's not in keeping with the Trumpian bragging about their (legit) diplomatic success of the sanctions, so we may infer that
A) it's not official US Govt position and therefore more likely to be true.
B) it's not preWar agitprop as we got before the Iraq debacle, because there is a real diplomatic effort presently underway, and the military really don't want that fight.

The point of this seems to me to simply be to increase anxiety and undermine the Admin.'s success at the UN. It's an extremely dangerous game to play, as an unstable President may become pressured to act prematurely.

Ah, so American Intelligence believe that N.K now have launch able nukes. Ready to go in 45 minutes no doubt.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Why wouldn't it be in the press? It's relatively major news, and certainly sensational.

Maybe that was phrased poorly on my part. I'm not wondering if it's newsworthy, for it is.

I'm concerned about the motivations of the source. Information of this nature is given to the public for specific objectives.

Is it intended for public consumption for a specific reason, and what is that reason?

"...will be met with fire, fury and frankly power, the likes of which the world has not seen before."- Trump's televised response. He looks angry.

But at least the rhetoric from Trump’s team and other Republicans has toughened in recent months. Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said last week that the president told him he would be willing to start a war with North Korea — regardless of the huge casualties likely to result in the region — if that’s what it takes to keep Kim from developing missiles and nuclear weapons capable of striking the U.S.

“If thousands die, they’re going to die over there. They’re not going to die here,” Graham said, adding that Trump “has told me that to my face.”

 

[Deleted member 115407]

No, I found it:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always vote for the candidate promising the most benefits from the treasury…”
- Attributed to Alexander Tytler

"Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Thus the beneficiaries are spared the shame, danger, and scruple which their acts would otherwise involve. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons, and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim — when he defends himself — as a criminal. In short, there is a legal plunder...

Now, legal plunder can be committed in an infinite number of ways. Thus we have an infinite number of plans for organizing it: tariffs, protection, benefits, subsidies, encouragements, progressive taxation, public schools, guaranteed jobs, guaranteed profits, minimum wages, a right to relief, a right to the tools of labor, free credit, and so on...

Socialists, like all other monopolists, desire to make the law their own weapon. And when once the law is on the side of socialism, how can it be used against socialism? For when plunder is abetted by the law, it does not fear your courts, your gendarmes, and your prisons. Rather, it may call upon them for help."

-Bastiat, The Law

 

[Minonian]

Maybe that was phrased poorly on my part. I'm not wondering if it's newsworthy, for it is.

I'm concerned about the motivations of the source. Information of this nature is given to the public for specific objectives.

Is it intended for public consumption for a specific reason, and what is that reason?

"...will be met with fire, fury and frankly power, the likes of which the world has not seen before."- Trump's televised response. He looks angry.

And now, we talking about millions.
There are war, and there is genocide. To do something like this trigger a war with this consequences?
You can attacked him in 2006 or before that. But at this point? You can't touch them.

 

[GJ51]

What's bizarre about it? That is true, if we are discussing forms of government it is important to recognize there are differences between the two.

The difference is simple. In present day politics, the Democrats realized that they can buy votes by pillaging the Treasury promising more and more womb to tomb benefits. The Republicans caught on and try doing the same thing but with slightly more restraint. That's why the voter has no real option anymore and why both parties hate Trump. The voters are actually starting to understand the consequences of what DC leadership has been doing and thus voted Trump in as an attempt to stop the destruction before all of our constitutional liberties are gone.

Trump is the last best chance to turn things around. If he's driven out by the constant progressive media onslaught. New Zealand real estate will go through the roof.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

And now, we talking about millions.
There are war, and there is genocide. To do something like this trigger a war with this consequences?
You can attacked him in 2006 or before that. But at this point? You can't touch them.

Could be wrong here, but it seems to me that up till this point, the US military isn't listening to the President, by his own assent. He gave them control of both the wars they're fighting. He's ceded power in the White House to Generals. They have ignored the Transgender ban, and there's been zero consequences so far.

So I still don't think any direct action will take place beyond rhetorical storming of words. He's NOT formulating foreign policy, they are.

This looks like a provoked escalation by intelligence services to make Trump look even weaker. It smells politically motivated.

 

[FuzzySpider]

"Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Thus the beneficiaries are spared the shame, danger, and scruple which their acts would otherwise involve. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons, and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim — when he defends himself — as a criminal. In short, there is a legal plunder...

Now, legal plunder can be committed in an infinite number of ways. Thus we have an infinite number of plans for organizing it: tariffs, protection, benefits, subsidies, encouragements, progressive taxation, public schools, guaranteed jobs, guaranteed profits, minimum wages, a right to relief, a right to the tools of labor, free credit, and so on..."

-Bastiat, The Law

"I believe in an America where millions of Americans believe in an America that's the America millions of Americans believe in. That's the America I love."

- Mitt Romney.

"I've never really wanted to go to Japan. Simply because I don't like eating fish. And I know that's very popular out there in Africa."

- Britney Spears

"I think that gay marriage should be between a man and a woman"

- Arnie.

"Quotation tags do not mean what lies between them is true or meaningful."

- Fuzzy Spider.

In other news, Trump is going to start WW3.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40869319

Put away the popcorn and get out your copy of duck and cover!

Spoiler

[video=youtube;IKqXu-5jw60]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKqXu-5jw60[/video]

 

[Minonian]

Could be wrong here, but it seems to me that up till this point, the US military isn't listening to the President, by his own assent. He gave them control of both the wars they're fighting. He's ceded power in the White House to Generals. They have ignored the Transgender ban, and there's been zero consequences so far.

So I still don't think any direct action will take place beyond rhetorical storming of words. He's NOT formulating foreign policy, they are.

This looks like a provoked escalation by intelligence services to make Trump look even weaker. It smells politically motivated.

I don't go this far, but one thing is sure. He is inept.

 

[GJ51]

And now, we talking about millions.
There are war, and there is genocide. To do something like this trigger a war with this consequences?
You can attacked him in 2006 or before that. But at this point? You can't touch them.

You might not "touch" him, but annihilating him is a real possibility. It's US restraint that has allowed this farce to continue beyond the point where it could have been dealt with before the consequences escalated. China and Russia are every bit as culpable.

One way or another, this is not going to end well for anyone, but it will end.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Could be wrong here, but it seems to me that up till this point, the US military isn't listening to the President, by his own assent. He gave them control of both the wars they're fighting. He's ceded power in the White House to Generals. They have ignored the Transgender ban, and there's been zero consequences so far.

So I still don't think any direct action will take place beyond rhetorical storming of words. He's NOT formulating foreign policy, they are.

This looks like a provoked escalation by intelligence services to make Trump look even weaker. It smells politically motivated.

He is still the president, sadly. His rantings will have consequences in diplomatic international relations at the very least. Surely the US intelligence community wouldn't risk provoking North Korean aggression, not to mention worsening Chinese and South Korean relations, by pushing Trump into foolish proclamations?

On the other hand they may be looking at Trump and deciding that is the lesser of two evils, so there is that.