The Difference Between PvP and "Griefing"

[StiTch]

And you lots only tolerated because all hero needs a villain.

Oh boy, the ambient sodium levels were feeling a little low, but I'm alright now thanks to you.

Also, the villains are tolerated because "play your way". It strikes me as mildly comic that if both "sides" are given the green flag to disregard the other's playstyles, that's you that ends up on the losing end.

Anyway, this has been my daily dose of meta forum PvP. I have been your host tonight; now, time to go turn in my bounties...

 

[Snarfbuckle]

OPEN was called the ALL GROUP, back in the DDF when Frontier unveiled their concept of the new to come ELITE and introduced basic game mechanic to us Founders. So the ALL GROUP contains PVE and PVP equally and deliberately.

Here is hope, provided the time for further development, we'll see a working C&P emerging online.
I for one, accept the possibility to be intercepted, shot at, or killed.

Fly safe Commanders, check six!

Which is fine.

The problem is, apart from a C&P system that security rating of systems mean squat.

They could as well have called it ALL ANARCHY instead. I think most players are ok with open and surprise PVP if there was a semblance of logic to the security system and if police forces actually responded with the force required to handle most criminal ventures.

EDIT:

The secondary problem is that for some reason a lot of vocal PVP players seems to advocate that open is PRIMARILY pvp instead of an option to play in an open environment WITH other players and not merely AGAINST other players.

Playing in open against NPC's and Thargoids can be damn fun too without getting jumped by pvp engineered ships.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Just because you pay for something doesn't mean it is top notch quality. it's like I buy Elite and expect it to work. Multicrew or CQC always tend to be bug free and of hig hquality just as NPCs and engineer effects.

Reality != Expectations. I fix my internet myself if it doesn#t work to the best extend and in 75% of the cases I can fix it myself. usually the dudes at the ISP are too incompetent and low paid to do it themselves. Same for Saitek I fixed my HOTAS now a dozen tiems myself even though I could claim warranty. And the best thing, formally I should have broken ym warranty right a dozen times whe nI repaired it myself too and yet they still grant me the warranty.

Just becuase you pay for something doesn't mean it's of high quality.

Admittedly, when my internet was being incredibly wonky, I did just stick to solo, as not to chase issues for others. Lol

A part from rebooting my router and messing with some settings, there's little else I could do to fix my internet.
My PC is wired, and the router, filters, cables, and sockets are all new.
Beyond that, it's up to the ISP.

My internet used to disconnect regularly (but randomly), and each time it came back on, it was a bit slower. Eventually it ended up at dialup speeds, then I'd ring Sky, they'd reset my line and send out an engineer, find no problems, and repeat.

It's all working as intended now, but literally nothing has changed. lol
(I have a feeling my line speed was set far too high).

If I suffered a rebuy every time my internet took a dump during danger back then, I'd be very very bankrupt. Lol

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[peteuplink]

Blimey, I've been away from the forum for months and we're still having this conversation?

For what it's worth, I generally don't consider PvP to be griefing, with two exceptions.

The first exception would be people hanging around outside stations to shoot players who are coming and going and unaware that they're there. You can also put suicide-winders in this category as well.

The second exception is people with high combat ranks, in high powered, fully engineered ships, destroying lower ranked players in weaker ships (haulers, sidewinders, etc) because they think it's fun.

Aside from those two exceptions, I say anything goes. Pirates have always been a part of Elite. Even in the original game you would often come under fire from enemy NPC ships for absolutely no reason what so ever. So I don't think it should be actively discouraged between experienced players in open space.

 

[PeLucheuh]

All the definitions of 'griefing' in the world don't add up to squat when you're the guy in the trade ship being ganked by a wing of 3 kids in FDLs, lolling and screaming 'git gud'. That is not PvP, that is kids running riot because they can.

And obviously there are no in-game tools to prevent being destroyed.... (/s)

Just for transparency, I don't play in Open. The only time I use open is to raid the boards. Other than that I'll be found in Mobius. This way I get to choose my game play for the evening, not some shower of kids.

And that is exactly why PG exists : it lets you choose your rules.

Now lets address PvP in E.D. PvP generally means Player versus Player, or group of players versus groups of players. In E.D PvP seems to mean, wing of 3 FDL/FAS <insert cheated ship> versus 1 player. We even have PvPr [sic] posting youtube videos of them killing a Novice! Wing of 3 versus 1 is not PvP its an "unwanted probe of the bottom" (Have to be careful in case I upset some snowflakes with bad language)

PvP is not Uber ship versus novice.

Ok so basically you are talking about PvP without knowing anything about it and only making assumptions.
Yes ganking exists, happens and will still happen but most PvPers look for dank fight. (recent 6v6 in asteroid field : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcLVPXB314c&t=0s)

In relation to C&P it'll be a waste. Just as the PvPrs cheated with their god rolls, they'll find a way to cheat the C&P. Without thinking much I already see one major flaw in the proposed solution. We'll see how it pans out.

Irrelevant assumptions... btw : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/358986-Community-Update-Engineer-Exploit-Action-Taken

Then we come to PvE. Player versus Environment. In every MMO (E.D. is not an MMO) that offers choice, PvE has already been the dominant group. And so it is in E.D.

The fact is the only players that need 'open mode' is PvP. I guarantee, that if every PvE player played in one of the giant PvE groups, PvP would die a sudden death in E.D. because like it or hate it, when it comes to proper PvP on E.D. they wake out as soon as their shields drop. The only people they get to kill are the PvE type players with ships far under-equipped than the attacker.

Nonsense. Breaking news : by design 100% of players are PvErs. PvPers are just the end game players in Elite Dangerous.
high wake instensified : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdlx5OxjVWQ&feature=youtu.be

if you want PvP to suceed in any meaningful way in E.D. you PvPrs [sic] need to 'git gud' and rethink your situation. You could do many things to help people and show them how to enjoy PvP. Run leagues. (small ships, medium ships, large ships) etc, best of the best, best newbie, best veteran. You have so many options.

Like this ? https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/341507-PvP-League-Season-3-About-to-Start!

As long as you run riot, wantonly killing players just for your jollies, you're on a losing slippery slope.

Riot will continue as long as people refuse to learn how the game works and adapt instead of making assumptions.

 

[Vacendak]

The pervasive attitude seems to be the assumption that all Solo/PVE players are all afraid of combat and that's why they don't do Open. This is as equally innaccurate as the assumption that all PvP players are greifers. I have almost 2B in Cr and assets so why would I be afraid of a rebuy? Or even 10 rebuys? In fact when I want to get into a tussle I visit CGs in Open specifically for that reason. In the other modes I control if, when, and how I interact with other players whilst in Open I know that I can become someones emergent gameplay at any time. I see this given as the reason for why players choose to play in Solo/PGS much more often than being afraid of combat. I'm fairly certain that without this choice ED would not have made it much past the KS campaign. I'm dead certain it wouldn't have made it past the engineers update which made it not optional but necessary to spend an inordinate amount of time gathering mats and modding a ship to even stand a fighting chance.

We all play the game the way we play it for our own reasons. I play it to relax and could give two .... about "developing my skills" or "Gitting Gud". In my RL occupation I deal with everyone from guys on prison work release programs to MIT educated engineers for 12 hours a day sometimes 6 days a week. So the last thing I want to deal with while I'm trying to unwind in the precious few hours I have to myself is someone in a ship that took them 40 hours to kit out who wants to try to kill me for no reason other than because he can.... unless that's what I'm in the mood for.

This argument will continue to be an infinite loop that nobody, especially Devs, will ever take seriously until everyone realizes and accepts two simple facts:

1) Open is a free for all. Either accept this as fact or play in a different mode because its not likely to change any time soon. This is how society acts in the absence of law and order. Watch any western movie where a criminal gang has taken over a town because there's no law. Its exactly the same. Not everyone in Open is like this but it takes surprisingly few people to perpetuate the dumpster fire impression. Couple this with the PvP and PVE zealot crowds both going at it in here and on Reddit and the fire spreads.

2) There's absolutely nothing wrong with Solo/PGs. The ED player base is hugely diverse. FDev did the right thing making the game appealing to as many as they could. Everyone is different and has different motivations and reasons for playing the way they do. The BGS argument that invariably shows up is invalid since all BGS work is PVE. Anything one group does the another can counter. There's no actual need to PvP while doing BGS work aside from the RP aspect which since not everyone RPs, is again invalid. The bottom line is that the game needs all of these modes and it needs the players they attracts.

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

Hello everyone!

This thread is probably going to be a long one, since much of the discussion on the forums is about "griefing". So let's dive into it!


So what is griefing?

Griefing in Elite is the motion of killing a player that doesn't consent to it. It may be either pulling a player who is unarmed, or someone that has a docking computer. Unfortunately, the only way to tell if the player is being 'griefed', is either they argue with the killer (it may be in-game or through social media), or complain on the forums/reddit.


Some definitions of 'griefing' listed here:

"A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and angers other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways." - Wikepedia

"Griefing is the act of irritating and angering people in video games through the use of destruction, construction, or social engineering. Popularized in Minecraft by teams, griefing has become a serious problem for server administrators who wish to foster building and protect builders." - Minecraft

Surprisingly.. The definition of Elite's issue in Open matches the definition for Minecraft? WHAT?!?


So get to the point.. Why are PvPers being called "griefers"?

The PvP Community has a large amount of players that do various things that may look like it's griefing, but most of it isn't.. especially if it is consensual or not. One such particular area that isn't griefing is PowerPlay. This area may seem boring for those looking for a profit, but when it comes to the Empire and Federation, PvP is massive at Headquarters and Expansions. This is because these superpowers are abundant with players, not to mention Lore that encourages the activity. When you kill a player Fed or Imp, the game awards you with merits and helps whatever objective the power is aiming for.


If that's the case, then what about Community Goals?

Community Goals are more of a hub for random PvP, which very much depends on the scenario if it really is "griefing" or not. Since CQC is barely used by anyone (yet constantly updated with no significant changes), much of the PvPers go there because it's where most players hang out at. If the CG is both combat and trade (or there's only one CG active), I will guarantee that the first player you will see in supercruise is a PvPer.

In regards to the term "griefing", the only term it would apply to is Station Ganking. So what is station ganking? It's the motive of crashing a weak ship into a docking ship that is speeding. Immediately after you gain the bounty, the station kills you for it.


So how can we fix it? (TL;DR)

Here's a list of some proposed changes to avoid unnecessary arguments and duplicate threads:

- Make CQC a diverse and fun PvP experience. I don't care if the game's Lore says it only has 'Fighter Combat'. Make it so that we can Import our own ships in!
- In addition with the CQC Improvement, add a Mission Builder where beta testers and combatants can customize their ships, engineer rolls, etc. Without any grind. In exchange, CQC rank progression doesn't apply and your opponents are NPCs. (However, an option may be given to invite your friend to the scenario)
- Increase the speed limit of stations to 130-150m/s (Optional, but just an idea to throw out there). If necessary, make it so that when a ship is cleared for docking, no bounties are applied to him/her whatsoever. However, if the docking ship shoots at a clean ship, the station or fires inside the station. The station will be authorized to destroy the ship.
- Increase bounty payouts from 1m CR to 2-3m CR.
- If a player logs to main menu in PvP, the player's ship will not disappear, more or so given the chance to be destroyed by the opponent. If all players have left the instance, the logger's ship will disappear. How the logger's outcome may be? It could be a rebuy screen if destroyed or a fine that costs half the player's ship rebuy.
- If the logger used Task Manager or any way to close the game faster than the timer, a ban from Open is applied in the following way:
1. First log = 2 hours.
2. Second log = 5 hours.
3. Third log = 12 hours.
4. Fourth log = 24 hours.
5. Final log = 48 hours + rebuy screen.
6. Next log starts again at First log. (Repeat)


Personally, these changes would benefit both Traders, Explorers and the PvP Community. As well as a much more improved experience of playing Elite. Please consider the following proposals, Frontier. There's no harm in testing new things that can make an impact to this game.


What can I do for the mean time?

If you're a trader in Open, make sure you have shields with no Docking Computers. Having a docking computer and/or no shields will likely get you destroyed by PvPers. Remember to fly under 100 m/s when docking, as station ganking is still present in 2.3. If you get killed by someone the first time, don't risk that again and go into Private Group or Solo Mode. There are alternatives like submitting an interdiction and high waking without getting destroyed. Though it requires a lot of practice and quick thinking to master it.



If you are a combat person and want to learn more about PvP (Player Vs Player), we have a discord server setup to teach and guide players in terms of builds, combat, and skill. You can join the "Galactic Combat Initiative" here: https://discord.gg/jqkJ4z7



If you made it at the end of the thread description.. Congratulations! For those who didn't, here is a brief TL;DR of what was discussed here:

- The definition of "griefing" in Elite is identical to Minecraft's definition. PowerPlay and Community Goal PvP is considered non-griefing, except for station ganking and may depend on the player getting killed. And proposed changes are listed above. (You will see a text in bold with "TL;DR" at the end)



There can be so much to discuss in regards to griefing and PvP, but I'll leave it as it is from now. Would the proposed changes work for you? Should Combat Logging or griefing be treated in a different way from what we see it today? Feel free to discuss your thoughts and opinions on the matter. (As long as it doesn't turn into arguments)



Fly Imperial, Commanders.


- CMDR StarfireIX

Points for the write up, but I disagree with quite a few points (it does sound awfully PvP biast).

- Bounties will not be increased beyond 1,000,000 because it would be open to exploitation by every man and his dog (also, precisely why killing innocent PvP ships awards no materials or credits, either; - open to exploitation).

- There may be a large PvP community but it is the minority of all overal players in Elite, soo..... not large, no.

- There is no way to keep a commander logged into the game if he/she disconected because the architecture behind the scenes for Peer-to-Peer does not allow for it (it isn't EVE online with dedicated servers).

- The timer for ctrl+alt+delete and quiting the client is counter-intuitive; it will just shunt casual PvE players away from Elite Dangerous and off into other games because they will feel punished for being ignorant of how the game works (in most cases I would imagine).

Hello everyone!

This thread is probably going to be a long one, since much of the discussion on the forums is about "griefing". So let's dive into it!


So what is griefing?

Griefing in Elite is the motion of killing a player that doesn't consent to it. It may be either pulling a player who is unarmed, or someone that has a docking computer. Unfortunately, the only way to tell if the player is being 'griefed', is either they argue with the killer (it may be in-game or through social media), or complain on the forums/reddit.


Some definitions of 'griefing' listed here:

"A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and angers other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways." - Wikepedia

"Griefing is the act of irritating and angering people in video games through the use of destruction, construction, or social engineering. Popularized in Minecraft by teams, griefing has become a serious problem for server administrators who wish to foster building and protect builders." - Minecraft

Surprisingly.. The definition of Elite's issue in Open matches the definition for Minecraft? WHAT?!?


So get to the point.. Why are PvPers being called "griefers"?

The PvP Community has a large amount of players that do various things that may look like it's griefing, but most of it isn't.. especially if it is consensual or not. One such particular area that isn't griefing is PowerPlay. This area may seem boring for those looking for a profit, but when it comes to the Empire and Federation, PvP is massive at Headquarters and Expansions. This is because these superpowers are abundant with players, not to mention Lore that encourages the activity. When you kill a player Fed or Imp, the game awards you with merits and helps whatever objective the power is aiming for.


If that's the case, then what about Community Goals?

Community Goals are more of a hub for random PvP, which very much depends on the scenario if it really is "griefing" or not. Since CQC is barely used by anyone (yet constantly updated with no significant changes), much of the PvPers go there because it's where most players hang out at. If the CG is both combat and trade (or there's only one CG active), I will guarantee that the first player you will see in supercruise is a PvPer.

In regards to the term "griefing", the only term it would apply to is Station Ganking. So what is station ganking? It's the motive of crashing a weak ship into a docking ship that is speeding. Immediately after you gain the bounty, the station kills you for it.


So how can we fix it? (TL;DR)

Here's a list of some proposed changes to avoid unnecessary arguments and duplicate threads:

- Make CQC a diverse and fun PvP experience. I don't care if the game's Lore says it only has 'Fighter Combat'. Make it so that we can Import our own ships in!
- In addition with the CQC Improvement, add a Mission Builder where beta testers and combatants can customize their ships, engineer rolls, etc. Without any grind. In exchange, CQC rank progression doesn't apply and your opponents are NPCs. (However, an option may be given to invite your friend to the scenario)
- Increase the speed limit of stations to 130-150m/s (Optional, but just an idea to throw out there). If necessary, make it so that when a ship is cleared for docking, no bounties are applied to him/her whatsoever. However, if the docking ship shoots at a clean ship, the station or fires inside the station. The station will be authorized to destroy the ship.
- Increase bounty payouts from 1m CR to 2-3m CR.
- If a player logs to main menu in PvP, the player's ship will not disappear, more or so given the chance to be destroyed by the opponent. If all players have left the instance, the logger's ship will disappear. How the logger's outcome may be? It could be a rebuy screen if destroyed or a fine that costs half the player's ship rebuy.
- If the logger used Task Manager or any way to close the game faster than the timer, a ban from Open is applied in the following way:
1. First log = 2 hours.
2. Second log = 5 hours.
3. Third log = 12 hours.
4. Fourth log = 24 hours.
5. Final log = 48 hours + rebuy screen.
6. Next log starts again at First log. (Repeat)


Personally, these changes would benefit both Traders, Explorers and the PvP Community. As well as a much more improved experience of playing Elite. Please consider the following proposals, Frontier. There's no harm in testing new things that can make an impact to this game.


What can I do for the mean time?

If you're a trader in Open, make sure you have shields with no Docking Computers. Having a docking computer and/or no shields will likely get you destroyed by PvPers. Remember to fly under 100 m/s when docking, as station ganking is still present in 2.3. If you get killed by someone the first time, don't risk that again and go into Private Group or Solo Mode. There are alternatives like submitting an interdiction and high waking without getting destroyed. Though it requires a lot of practice and quick thinking to master it.



If you are a combat person and want to learn more about PvP (Player Vs Player), we have a discord server setup to teach and guide players in terms of builds, combat, and skill. You can join the "Galactic Combat Initiative" here: https://discord.gg/jqkJ4z7



If you made it at the end of the thread description.. Congratulations! For those who didn't, here is a brief TL;DR of what was discussed here:

- The definition of "griefing" in Elite is identical to Minecraft's definition. PowerPlay and Community Goal PvP is considered non-griefing, except for station ganking and may depend on the player getting killed. And proposed changes are listed above. (You will see a text in bold with "TL;DR" at the end)



There can be so much to discuss in regards to griefing and PvP, but I'll leave it as it is from now. Would the proposed changes work for you? Should Combat Logging or griefing be treated in a different way from what we see it today? Feel free to discuss your thoughts and opinions on the matter. (As long as it doesn't turn into arguments)



Fly Imperial, Commanders.


- CMDR StarfireIX

Points for the write up, but I disagree with quite a few points (it does sound awfully PvP biast).

- Bounties will not be increased beyond 1,000,000 because it would be open to exploitation by every man and his dog (also, precisely why killing innocent PvP ships awards no materials or credits, either; - open to exploitation).

- There may be a large PvP community but it is the minority of all overal players in Elite, soo..... not large, no.

- There is no way to keep a commander logged into the game if he/she disconected because the architecture behind the scenes for Peer-to-Peer does not allow for it (it isn't EVE online with dedicated servers).

- The timer for ctrl+alt+delete and quiting the client is counter-intuitive; it will just shunt casual PvE players away from Elite Dangerous and off into other games because they will feel punished for being ignorant of how the game works (in most cases I would imagine).

 

[GluttonyFang]

There are alternatives like submitting an interdiction and high waking without getting destroyed. Though it requires a lot of practice and quick thinking to master it.

...

Did the bar drop even lower after I went on hiatus...?

Zero throttle during interdiction.
Scroll up instead of down on navigation panel.
Double click space bar.
Engage FSD.
4 Pips into shields and 2 into engines if slow ship.
???
Profit.

 

[Wasp0]

...

Did the bar drop even lower after I went on hiatus...?

Zero throttle during interdiction.
Scroll up instead of down on navigation panel.
Double click space bar.
Engage FSD.
4 Pips into shields and 2 into engines if slow ship.
???
Profit.

Nope, no bar dropping here, it still is that very EASY to high wake out, just some people find thoes simple maneuvers very hard?? Not sure why.

PS. Are you back now GluttonyFang ?

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Points for the write up, but I disagree with quite a few points (it does sound awfully PvP biast).

- Bounties will not be increased beyond 1,000,000 because it would be open to exploitation by every man and his dog (also, precisely why killing innocent PvP ships awards no materials or credits, either; - open to exploitation).

- There may be a large PvP community but it is the minority of all overal players in Elite, soo..... not large, no.

- There is no way to keep a commander logged into the game if he/she disconected because the architecture behind the scenes for Peer-to-Peer does not allow for it (it isn't EVE online with dedicated servers).

- The timer for ctrl+alt+delete and quiting the client is counter-intuitive; it will just shunt casual PvE players away from Elite Dangerous and off into other games because they will feel punished for being ignorant of how the game works (in most cases I would imagine).



Points for the write up, but I disagree with quite a few points (it does sound awfully PvP biast).

- Bounties will not be increased beyond 1,000,000 because it would be open to exploitation by every man and his dog (also, precisely why killing innocent PvP ships awards no materials or credits, either; - open to exploitation).

- There may be a large PvP community but it is the minority of all overal players in Elite, soo..... not large, no.

- There is no way to keep a commander logged into the game if he/she disconected because the architecture behind the scenes for Peer-to-Peer does not allow for it (it isn't EVE online with dedicated servers).

- The timer for ctrl+alt+delete and quiting the client is counter-intuitive; it will just shunt casual PvE players away from Elite Dangerous and off into other games because they will feel punished for being ignorant of how the game works (in most cases I would imagine).

Sincere question. As I've seen you pop up in various places talking about how none of it mattered anyways since you only played in a private group?

So if thats the case. Why are you worried about balancing OPEN play? Thats what I dont get. A lot of people that have problems with the "SAME OL PROPOSALS" dont have the experience in open play to begin with. Or have made it to this stage of the game.

A lot of these people making these proposals usually do the thinking on their own. And dont realize its been said about 1 million times before. And it gets repeated and recycled because of the obvious answers once you reach this stage of the game.

We all started out in the same spot and took different routes. And there is not one thing wrong with anyones route taken. People that end up repeating the same thing over and over, arent always the same guys. There are new people that have advanced into that part of the game. Because they are trying something new.

Then they see how imbalanced it is. And its trickle down effect on the rest of the open players.

Here is my favorite part of all this.

Ya'll say that the "PVP community is really small".

But if everyone that was AFRAID and went to the private group banned together. The "griefers" ya'll are worried about wouldn't be a problem.

And im not talking about the guys that just want to enjoy PVE content. They dont give a crap about this thread. They dont care how they balance the game with Crime and Punishment. And they dont have to worry about The open trickle down effects.

That is the credit advantage because of money fountains. And that punishes the people in open that didnt take advantage of it because their rebuy is felt much more than someone with 8 billion. And the RNG you get from engineers/time problems.

All this is felt from the top down. And a lot of private group/solo players dont understand this. So they dont see the reasons they should change anything.

This is why people say, you dont have to balance this game around PVE. IE: Diablo 3.

But they do balance this game around PVP. Because of player interaction.

So there you go, PVP is and will always be a part of this game, and these changes people are asking for makes it beneficial for people to learn and reward their time.

The PVPers already have an advantage. We are literally asking Fdev to take it away from us. And make the playing field equal for everyone.

And for some reason thats a bad thing?

What the hell is going on around here?

 

[GreyAreaUK]

...

Did the bar drop even lower after I went on hiatus...?

Zero throttle during interdiction.
Scroll up instead of down on navigation panel.
Double click space bar.
Engage FSD.
4 Pips into shields and 2 into engines if slow ship.
???
Profit.

Doesn't always work though. I've had a ship melted out from under me before the FSD had chance to cool down, despite submitting, despite having a high-wake solution on speed dial, despite having Engineered shields and two shield boosters and despite attempting evasive tactics.

Sometimes the odds are too great and you lose, despite doing everything right. Such is life.

 

[StiTch]

Doesn't always work though. I've had a ship melted out from under me before the FSD had chance to cool down, despite submitting, despite having a high-wake solution on speed dial, despite having Engineered shields and two shield boosters and despite attempting evasive tactics.

Sometimes the odds are too great and you lose, despite doing everything right. Such is life.

When I read tales like this, I always want to see a video.

Rinzler already reasonably demonstrated an unengineered trade ship surviving an encounter with meta PvP ships easily, and I could provide further footage severalfold. I can only think such a demise is either someone thinking it's okay to travel in a dead straight line, or has terrible network latency.

 

[popuptoaster]

The difference is that PvP is Player vs Player, if both players WANT the combat then it is PvP, if only ONE player wants combat then it is griefing, the clue is in the name.

 

[GluttonyFang]

PS. Are you back now GluttonyFang ?

Definitely wagging my tail at 2.4, so that's a yes.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Doesn't always work though. I've had a ship melted out from under me before the FSD had chance to cool down, despite submitting, despite having a high-wake solution on speed dial, despite having Engineered shields and two shield boosters and despite attempting evasive tactics.

Sometimes the odds are too great and you lose, despite doing everything right. Such is life.

Was there more than one opponent?

What kind of ship was the victim flying?

Was your shield engineered to be balanced on resistance against all types of attacks?

Did you try silent running once your shield went out and dropping heat sinks in conjunction?

 

[Wasp0]

The difference is that PvP is Player vs Player, if both players WANT the combat then it is PvP, if only ONE player wants combat then it is griefing, the clue is in the name.

so you are now accusing NPC's of griefing as well then?

You comment is wrong on some many counts!

 

[GluttonyFang]

The difference is that PvP is Player vs Player, if both players WANT the combat then it is PvP, if only ONE player wants combat then it is griefing, the clue is in the name.

Where do you draw the line of consent then? By playing the game? By playing in Open? By signing the Doesn't Exist form to consent to PvP on a per occurrence basis? Why is the same logic not applied to NPCs?

Hey, I just pirated a guy, and now I don't want to be engaged in combat, can you tell the NPCs and the player bounty hunters to stop griefing me .-.?

#StopNPCGriefingToday

*Chuckles in the background*

 

[Goose4291]

...

Did the bar drop even lower after I went on hiatus...?

Zero throttle during interdiction.
Scroll up instead of down on navigation panel.
Double click space bar.
Engage FSD.
4 Pips into shields and 2 into engines if slow ship.
???
Profit.

Even worse, is that if I was on the receiving end in this scenario, that I'd be flying with those pips dialed in even before the interdiction attempt!

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Doesn't always work though. I've had a ship melted out from under me before the FSD had chance to cool down, despite submitting, despite having a high-wake solution on speed dial, despite having Engineered shields and two shield boosters and despite attempting evasive tactics.

Sometimes the odds are too great and you lose, despite doing everything right. Such is life.

I agree, but death from an interdiction is usually down to pilot error.

However, there are very few occasions where it's quite impossible to escape, most of them involve somehow being mass locked by a station, planet or those oddly huge mass lock zones of CQC assets.
If you can't survive long without high or low waking, then you are well and truly stuffed. Lol

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[KING5TON]

Hmm tough one in this game.
Since FD have designed the game so that anyone can be attacked by anyone without much consequence (will have to see how C&P/Karma develops, from what I've seen so far it's all low effort sticking plasters trying to heal a decapitation) then people shooting other people that happen to not want to be shot isn't IMO griefing.

I've been shot (and killed) a couple of times when I didn't want to be shot (by Players and NPCs) and I didn't feel "griefed".

All the complaints and arguing in the community is directing anger in the wrong direction. Both camps should be demanding FD to solve the problem that FD created when they made a MP game with this mechanic (players can shoot and kill other players at will) and no mechanism to control it (decent C&P).

PVP'er need PVP content (not CQC, bog off with that!) in the main game. Piracy needs to be fun and viable profession. C&P actually has to do something.

FD CBA though, too busy making theme park and dinosaur games.