"Beyond" free for Horizon owners - LEP musings

[popuptoaster]

In which things you were interested?

The single player offline version, second hand ships with individual quirks and foibles, non uniform purchases when trading or buying equipment, interesting and unique missions, a background sim that means something and feels worth digging into, planets with atmospheres and life forms to explore.

Loads of stuff I cant even remember now, my main gripes currently are the "political" sim which really is just another excuse to shoot at people, powerplay is seriously "meh", the thargoid and guardians stuff is effectively more fun to play on the forums and reddit than it is in the actual game, an arena shooter add on that isnt integrated into the main game in practise although it is supposed to be part of it in theory, the poorly implemented ship customisation that is basically the skins shop and the RNG engineers, FDs seeming total lack of understanding about some of the little things that bug people (the galaxy map in VR for instance) while getting all excited about fixing broken planet textures.

There is more, im not trying to add the moaning about the game tothis thread just putting it up there to show i HAVE gripes, justified or not, and so i feel i wasted my money at this point in time.

 

[Juniper]

There is more, im not trying to add the moaning about the game tothis thread just putting it up there to show i HAVE gripes, justified or not, and so i feel i wasted my money at this point in time.

Hmm. The way to look at this is - how many hours have you sunk into the game? If it's more than 200, then you've got your money's worth IMO.

I have something like 200 games on Steam that I've collected over the last 10 years or so. If I get 1 hour of gameplay per £1 spent, then the game was worth the money.

Personally, I've dropped at least £1000 on E: D since 2012, but I've got over 1000 hours of playtime on Steam alone, so whilst all your gripes are valid & shared by many (including me) I don't feel as though I've wasted my money.

 

[Red Anders]

I use this thread as motivation for killing Cmdr's in Open.

It's making me seriously consider starting.

 

[WR3ND]

They are angry, because a free year seem to devalue the Lifetime pass.

A fair executive summary of the viewpoint of the LEP owners that are complaining.

Not sure how it "devalues" anything; It just didn't seem to deliver on content that was already paid for with the LEP.

Though now of course Zac has already stated that there will be "premium content" as well, so we'll see.

 

[LKx]

If they made it free to both ED base and ED Horizons then there would perhaps be a greater degree of (and reasonable justification for) complaints.

Well, looks like in beyond there will be a lot of core gameplay improvements, and those WILL get to the base game for free, because there are no other way to do it, as well the are no way to sell horizons content core improvements.

So they are doing the right thing making them included, but there would have been only bad ways to not include them

 

[eqinox]

Why is that at all relevant?

If FDev is going to make big expansions to ED in the future, they need to trust there are enough potential buyers out there that it will be profitable. I think LEP owners are entitled to get at least one full size expansion based on the price, but to get two or more expansions, there need to be enough other buyers as well.

The number of LEP owners and buyers of Horizons season pass over time should correlate with potential number of customers that would buy the next expansion. I imagine initial sales of Horizons was disappointing though, as there wasn't much content upfront.

 

[lenna]

What, in a thread titled LEP musings, where we are discussing how free content for lepers will play out down the line?

The number of people that own an LEP are moot to whether FD should honour the agreement with them - FD sold a product license, money changed hands, now FD are bound to honour that license - to do otherwise would be a breach of contract of sale.

 

[Dooguk]

Considering that the next "updates" are going to be QoL stuff and bug fixes for the most part, yeah I would feel peeved if I was an LEP owner.

But you are not, so it should not concern you.

 

[Toumal]

Wait.

Waitwaitwait.

I now have an additional question:

When I bought the Lifetime Expansion Pass, I was under the impression that the expansion pass would extend my lifetime. That seemed like a good deal at the time and I'd hate to see my life expectancy not be extended significantly. Or at least, enough to justify the cost. What's up with that?

 

[Sebastian Rooks]

see below

 

[Sebastian Rooks]

Hey Astral! This is a very reasonable and understandable post. Hopefully I can put your mind at ease a little.


In addition to all the content talked about at Frontier Expo, we also have some pretty cool things in the works which will be available to purchase. We're not ready to talk about them just yet so we can't give you any details but rest assured that the lifetime expansion pass owners will be looked after and will be getting their hands on premium content as part of their lifetime expansion pass before the end of 2018 and the Beyond series of updates.

I hope that helps,


Zac

Hey Zac,
Is there any remote chance that LEPs might be offered again in the future?

Rooks o7

 

[Ryder35]

There is a lot of word twisting going on here having a go at LEPers who dared to show concern which I think is pretty nasty to be honest. I can only speak for myself but as a LEPer personally I could not care less if out of the blue FD came out with the "DDF" patch which covered the entire DDF and made it free for everyone.

Personally my only worry is whether or not that content is still on the roadmap and I expressed my concern that 3 years without any new paid DLC reduced the chances of the more ambitious parts of the game making it out. I also suggested FD commenting on some broad future would not go amiss.

Some are not worried and that is ok too, but it's not cool to insult and entire group who dare express concern. Asking for an update (which we got) and saying you are worried and expected more than one premium update in 3 years (which we may be getting after all) is not whining imo esp when game direction seems to be changing significantly

For some on here any comment other than FD is the best developer in the world and ED is the best game ever made is "Whining" Some people (at both ends of the spectrum) lack perspective I feel

 

[lysan]

Not aimed at me but for me
A robust sensible economy with stuff to think about (running costs, docking fees for big ships, etc)

More complexity to ships systems, with equipment failure we would juryrig in space
Big ships needing crew to fly that we would hire and fire of varying ability
NPC wing mates and missions surrounding them
Consequences for actions , being hunted for past crimes, refused docking so having to find hidden illegal based if I want to trade in some systems , possibly having to buy stolen ships rather than shiny new ones if I can't dock in official stations
People we could rescue or otherwise find who would be semi persistent in our game (but could die) who we build relations with.
Missions to deploy say scientist research group on a planet and depending on how well we keep supplying them depends on how well they prosper. Perhaps they allow us to berth our ships for free as a thanks, or if they produce something we get discount etc if we treat them well.

Just more life and persistence in bgs

I hear you and I am just like you disappointed In some of the desisions FD made regarding the game design.

PP? Didn't ask for it, however when presented on paper it sounded fun, it was not. CQC totally broken and not my cup of tea without bots and connection to the main game. NPC crew missing, autopilot basically all the stuff we got in the old series and what was mentioned in the early days.

 

[Ryder35]

Not aimed at me but for me
A robust sensible economy with stuff to think about (running costs, docking fees for big ships, etc)

More complexity to ships systems, with equipment failure we would juryrig in space
Big ships needing crew to fly that we would hire and fire of varying ability
NPC wing mates and missions surrounding them
Consequences for actions , being hunted for past crimes, refused docking so having to find hidden illegal based if I want to trade in some systems , possibly having to buy stolen ships rather than shiny new ones if I can't dock in official stations
People we could rescue or otherwise find who would be semi persistent in our game (but could die) who we build relations with.
Missions to deploy say scientist research group on a planet and depending on how well we keep supplying them depends on how well they prosper. Perhaps they allow us to berth our ships for free as a thanks, or if they produce something we get discount etc if we treat them well.

Just more life and persistence in bgs

Please stop you are making me sad

 

[Kayweg]

Hmm. The way to look at this is - how many hours have you sunk into the game? If it's more than 200, then you've got your money's worth IMO.

I have something like 200 games on Steam that I've collected over the last 10 years or so. If I get 1 hour of gameplay per £1 spent, then the game was worth the money.

Personally, I've dropped at least £1000 on E: D since 2012, but I've got over 1000 hours of playtime on Steam alone, so whilst all your gripes are valid & shared by many (including me) I don't feel as though I've wasted my money.

Never quite understood that equation, never will.
Of course, if that works for you (and others), good.
Just be careful when presenting it as if it was the only one and all encompassing measuring pin of "value for money".
It's not.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

First of all, LEP worries aren't really about LEP let's be honest, but about will FD complete their mission with ED and "make it whole" - space legs, atmospheric planets, and all.

That's all we think about.

Problem is that we don't know and we can't know. Amount of work ahead for them is huge even if they have done some of that in these last three years.

Only solution for me is to chill, enjoy the ride, get off the train, wait for few years, finish PhD, write an album, marry your spouse, raise a kid. Peek in sometime.

Rushing, shaming, pushing devs won't make desired extensions come sooner.

 

[popuptoaster]

Hmm. The way to look at this is - how many hours have you sunk into the game? If it's more than 200, then you've got your money's worth IMO.

I have something like 200 games on Steam that I've collected over the last 10 years or so. If I get 1 hour of gameplay per £1 spent, then the game was worth the money.

Personally, I've dropped at least £1000 on E: D since 2012, but I've got over 1000 hours of playtime on Steam alone, so whilst all your gripes are valid & shared by many (including me) I don't feel as though I've wasted my money.

That's rubbish, i have my monies worth when I feel that I've had my monies worth, I have way more hours in Skyrim for far less cost and even those games that i may have put a comparable amount of money in to have kept me happy for far longer, i have been playing World of Tanks since it first went live (back in what 2012 maybe?) and despite it's flaws it keeps me playing it.

The unfortunate thing is that i don't hate this game, i am just very disappointed that the original vision for it, as pitched to backers has become diluted and/or delayed so much that many of the original backers are becoming disillusioned, remember we are the guys who were doing stuff like sending FD pizzas while they worked late on beta changes and stuff, we don't hate FD or hate the game, we are feeling this way because we love what it COULD be.

 

[Juniper]

Never quite understood that equation, never will.
Of course, if that works for you (and others), good.
Just be careful when presenting it as if it was the only one and all encompassing measuring pin of "value for money".
It's not.

You're right of course, and my wording could have been better. I just find it a useful yardstick - it's like going on a night out. I'd spend £80-£100 easily for basically 4-6 hours "entertainment", so I judge games based on hours played vs money spent. My criteria is £1 = 1hour, but your mileage may vary.

That's rubbish, i have my monies worth when I feel that I've had my monies worth, I have way more hours in Skyrim for far less cost and even those games that i may have put a comparable amount of money in to have kept me happy for far longer, i have been playing World of Tanks since it first went live (back in what 2012 maybe?) and despite it's flaws it keeps me playing it.

But what's your criteria for deciding whether you've had your money's worth? Is it purely emotional? I'm not sure that translates to financial transactions that well. At least, not for me.

 

[Bobbydylan]

The unfortunate thing is that i don't hate this game, i am just very disappointed that the original vision for it, as pitched to backers has become diluted and/or delayed so much that many of the original backers are becoming disillusioned, remember we are the guys who were doing stuff like sending FD pizzas while they worked late on beta changes and stuff, we don't hate FD or hate the game, we are feeling this way because we love what it COULD be.

QFT. The worst thing about Elite is the unfulfilled potential.

 

[Montague]

I don't suppose anyone has any figures on how many LEP owners there are?

I don't know how many LEP owners there are, but if I'm reading the financial report correctly (and I'm no expert so please feel free to check it yourself), the deferred income from LEP sales was valued at over one million pounds for the fiscal year ending May 31, 2017.

Page 45 of FD's latest annual report:

https://frontier-drupal.s3-eu-west-...eleases/financial/FrontierAR17-FullReport.pdf