Modes Elite Dangerous PvE vs PvP and who needs a Solo play if you had PvE server

[Stigbob]

If the opportunities for PVP are lacking in ED why not try to organize some, start a thread nominate a CZ/res site/compromised nav beacon/anything and ask PVP'ers far and wide to come and have a go if they think they are hard enough. If it proves popular you could ask the mods to sticky it. It wouldn't take much effort just pick a location.

That way you'll have better more challenging fights from CMDR's who are prepared and should struggle less to find likeminded players, also people who fancy trying PVP can turn up and have a go.

 

[digitalblade]

I see well I never asked for the removal of Solo mode. I just suggested the addition of a second Open Play mode but for PvE (CMDR ships cannot damage other CMDR ships). My main focus is the PvP state of the game. However that is also dependent on Open Play since that is the only way to engage in a PvP activity however people that do not wish to are forced in to PvP and have no where else to go then Solo play. That effectively blocks them to have other players in their game and turns the game in to Single player.

Clarification on the Solo play.

Solo play is not offline play. You require internet access for it to be played and connection to the servers. The entire point of it is to play the game with no interference of other real players in your realm. So in the Console world you have to pay to play with other players, well that is marketing politics. If there was a PvE only Open play that would also require the payment I am sure, but there is no reason to remove Solo play.

Again it's all the same connected Server according to the game description. You just chose whether to have other Players in your game or to be alone, but everything else is the same. And yes I guess console players are forced to pay for other players in their game, but that is not really my problem. If anything it makes the importance to actually provide PvP content even higher. Since everyone that is paying for the subscription probably seeks interaction with other players.

We all are perfectly aware that console players always had to pay more then PC gamers and got less from everything and that there are locked console only games. Non of that changes the State of the PvP content in Elite Dangerous.

If the opportunities for PVP are lacking in ED why not try to organize some, start a thread nominate a CZ/res site/compromised nav beacon/anything and ask PVP'ers far and wide to come and have a go if they think they are hard enough. If it proves popular you could ask the mods to sticky it. It wouldn't take much effort just pick a location.

That way you'll have better more challenging fights from CMDR's who are prepared and should struggle less to find likeminded players, also people who fancy trying PVP can turn up and have a go.

Funny I wonder if I ever came up with that idea before. Oh yes actually that is exactly what I am doing right now. I am trying to gather PvP players and let them tell me how they are playing this game as PvP players. So I can figure out what kind of activities I can come up with and how many people are interested in such. I also am trying to explain other about why PvP is so hated in ED and that PvP and PvE issues exist in every other game and there are ways that games use to deal with them. But above all to discuss the fact that there is no real motivation or support for PvP from the game in it's current state.

As you should be aware there is a big difference between you can always do what you want to do and you generally feel motivated to do what you want to do. Because there is some sort of benefit or encouragement for that activity. Yes we can gather and join small PvP community an play among us, but is this even a thing in this game since there is so much game mechanics for player vs player combat but no actual support with activities and benefits for it.

The point is that ED has the potential to be an amazing PvP game, but has Zero PvP content exempt to kill Commanders in Open world that gives you nothing and you are always at a loss.

 

[duckofdeath]

Some people really are easily offended. Suggest you stick to solo if you are struggling to deal with other players.

I don't know if that answer was for me? If it was, I'm not struggling with other players. Like most others, I'm just tried of playing a game where cheating in PvP is seemingly encouraged by the developer. My secondary CMDR plays 100% open.
If you don't want the game to succeed in the long run, please keep that narrow minded rhetoric going...

 

[Robert Maynard]

PvE players are spitting on us since we are ruining their game, while no one realize that the Solo play should have been just a PvE server and not that in Open play there should be 0 hostility in a game called Elite DANGEROUS.

From the outset, when Frontier published the design information for the game over five years ago at the start of the Kickstarter, it has been clear that the game was not designed to be dominated by direct PvP, with the choice left to the player, at the beginning of each session, how many players they play among.

It has been equally clear that indirect PvP, through the BGS, is at the core of Frontier's desired user experience as every player both experiences and affects the single shared galaxy state, regardless of game mode or platform.

Both multi-player game modes are direct PvP enabled.

Frontier have confirmed that the BGS will not be split and that they consider all game modes to be equal and valid choices (and they are aware that not all players will agree).

Every player who bought or backed the game did so with these features in place.

Not every player engages in direct PvP, indeed one Dev has indicated that Frontier are well aware that the majority of players don't. Every player engages in PvE however - which will often result in indirect PvP, whether intentional or not.

 

[JonesTheFilm]

I see well I never asked for the removal of Solo mode. I just suggested the addition of a second Open Play mode but for PvE (CMDR ships cannot damage other CMDR ships). My main focus is the PvP state of the game. However that is also dependent on Open Play since that is the only way to engage in a PvP activity however people that do not wish to are forced in to PvP and have no where else to go then Solo play. That effectively blocks them to have other players in their game and turns the game in to Single player.

Clarification on the Solo play.

Solo play is not offline play. You require internet access for it to be played and connection to the servers. The entire point of it is to play the game with no interference of other real players in your realm. So in the Console world you have to pay to play with other players, well that is marketing politics. If there was a PvE only Open play that would also require the payment I am sure, but there is no reason to remove Solo play.

Again it's all the same connected Server according to the game description. You just chose whether to have other Players in your game or to be alone, but everything else is the same. And yes I guess console players are forced to pay for other players in their game, but that is not really my problem. If anything it makes the importance to actually provide PvP content even higher. Since everyone that is paying for the subscription probably seeks interaction with other players.

We all are perfectly aware that console players always had to pay more then PC gamers and got less from everything and that there are locked console only games. Non of that changes the State of the PvP content in Elite Dangerous.

Well... the title of your thread includes the phrase "who needs solo play if you had a PvE server" so I was providing my response to that.

 

[StiTch]

ED is by now much too entrenched as a solo game featuring the odd hollow square. Any pretense we can actually get FD to turn it into a multiplayer game is misguided.

Ironic that offline solo was binned to preserve the multiplayer aspect, but in doing so directly killed it.

 

[Riverside]

I don't know if that answer was for me? If it was, I'm not struggling with other players. Like most others, I'm just tried of playing a game where cheating in PvP is seemingly encouraged by the developer. My secondary CMDR plays 100% open.
If you don't want the game to succeed in the long run, please keep that narrow minded rhetoric going...

You had not posted when I clicked reply (no one had). Take it how you find it though

 

[digitalblade]

From the outset, when Frontier published the design information for the game over five years ago at the start of the Kickstarter, it has been clear that the game was not designed to be dominated by direct PvP, with the choice left to the player, at the beginning of each session, how many players they play among.

It has been equally clear that indirect PvP, through the BGS, is at the core of Frontier's desired user experience as every player both experiences and affects the single shared galaxy state, regardless of game mode or platform.

Both multi-player game modes are direct PvP enabled.

Frontier have confirmed that the BGS will not be split and that they consider all game modes to be equal and valid choices (and they are aware that not all players will agree).

Every player who bought or backed the game did so with these features in place.

Not every player engages in direct PvP, indeed one Dev has indicated that Frontier are well aware that the majority of players don't. Every player engages in PvE however - which will often result in indirect PvP, whether intentional or not.

I see well that is important to know that they neither encourage PvP or prohibit it, while I am ok with that it seems a LOT of people that play in Open don't quite understand what that means. Here is my issue with the current state as it was intended by the game. When I chose to engage at PvP and on my own free will, the other player may chose to pull the plug or simply leave the game after a timer. For me that is a cheat, since in other games that times that you remain in the game in such situation, are more then enough for you to lose your ship. I understand no one like to be attacked and lose a fight, but such activities becomes pointless if we all have the option to just pull the plug when we feel like not losing our ship. That essentially means even if I on my own personal will desire to walk the PvP path I am actually blocked by game-play loop-arounds.

 

[Stealthie]

For the people that think that PvP players don't understand or like PvE play.
Do you really think PvP players play only PvP ??? Yes unless you lived under a rock and never played an other MMO you should know every PvP player is also a PvE player, or else how do you think we all reached the end game to PvP on the first place? We all also enjoyed and went throw every aspect of the PvE content. We just happened to prefer player vs player combat since we find it more interesting and enjoyable then the PvE content.

See, this is something that always strikes me as a bit of a paradox.

Currently a person can be a raging murder-hobo one minute and then, when they decide that they want another pair of god-rolled PAs or they need another billion credits to build another flying death-machine, they can simply opt out of PvP, rejoin the "herd" and expect no consequences for their previous actions.

And, for ultimate irony, they can do it in Solo mode, if they wish to avoid being treated the way they treat others when the mood takes them.

And then, once they're done "playing nice" they can jump back into their flying death-machines, return to shooting up anybody else they stumble across and come on the forums to whine about how Solo/PvE is ruining the game etc.

Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I see well that is important to know that they neither encourage PvP or prohibit it, while I am ok with that it seems a LOT of people that play in Open don't quite understand what that means. Here is my issue with the current state as it was intended by the game. When I chose to engage at PvP and on my own free will, the other player may chose to pull the plug or simply leave the game after a timer. For me that is a cheat, since in other games that times that you remain in the game in such situation, are more then enough for you to lose your ship. I understand no one like to be attacked and lose a fight, but such activities becomes pointless if we all have the option to just pull the plug when we feel like not losing our ship. That essentially means even if I on my own personal will desire to walk the PvP path I am actually blocked by game-play loop-arounds.

Leaving the game using the menu exit (whether delayed or not) is permitted, by Frontier, at any time - and they are aware that not all players agree with their stance.

Frontier consider that pulling the plug is unacceptable and, when proven (and proving how the connection was lost is a non-trivial exercise) have indicated that they will take action. The Karma system that Sandro has talked about is expected to track lost connections and introduce consequences for it.

 

[Whitehair]

Commanders Please share your PvP Experience in Elite Dangerous.

Taking part in a CG.

Interdicted 3 times. Destroyed 3 times with no communication.
After CG was over logged in at the station. Rammed to death by 'speed cops'.

Moved over to Private groups for all future CG's.

 

[StiTch]

Leaving the game using the menu exit (whether delayed or not) is permitted, by Frontier, at any time - and they are aware that not all players agree with their stance.

Frontier consider that pulling the plug is unacceptable and, when proven (and proving how the connection was lost is a non-trivial exercise) have indicated that they will take action. The Karma system that Sandro has talked about is expected to track lost connections and introduce consequences for it.

Wetter than a driving instructor's handshake.

Simply put, FD want to be seen making more of a fuss over preventing murder. The karma system is currently dead and buried for all intents and purposes and was stressed it would visit murder first. But as long as they continue to be all talk/no trousers around aspects such as CLing ain't nothing gonna change: PvE consequence is a facade.

So a murderer has to get in a new ship if they want to dock at a non-anarchy station, and jump away from the odd useless NPC interdiction; that doesn't even constitute a minor inconvenience. If another player cannot bring them to justice, they'll continue to bring other players to the graveyard.

 

[digitalblade]

And then, once they're done "playing nice" they can jump back into their flying death-machines, return to shooting up anybody else they stumble across and come on the forums to whine about how Solo/PvE is ruining the game etc.

In my case, as I said I have never killed anyone that did not returned fire and was not equipped for combat. I am full aware most people are just doing their missions and it sucks when you get your time wasted. Especially when you know your offender gains NOTHING out of it. I am also not doing PvP since ages, I have recently reached what I consider End game so I am switching to PvP.

But I find there is nothing of value in PvP and everything in PvP is only negative to you. Power play does give some thing, but it is insane to make it worth for you. Especially as because of the way Power Play works most people would chose not to commit to it. Since it makes the completion of missions even more harder and time consuming.

I do not have multiple "Killing Death Ships" even if I like the thought of that . I have only one ship of the ships that I need and re-equip them every time I do PvE and PvP. Yes it is not ideal but I am not a "CR Farmer". Yes the costs of PvP are way more then just playing the game safe. I am not complain for that. I am complaining for the fact there are Zero reasons for us to start any PvP fight at all. As well as Zero rewards for that activities and I state that in other MMOs that have PvP as an game play element you have such. Either benefits to gain or special PvP areas where everyone is committed to the same Player vs Player combat.

My main goal again is not to complain but to discuss what do current PvP players do in this game and why. As i side note I decided to mention things that are done better in other MMOs, so that both PvE and PvP players are satisfied. Since I am well aware everyone here has extreme feeling towards people that attack them in open play.

 

[Stigbob]

Funny I wonder if I ever came up with that idea before. Oh yes actually that is exactly what I am doing right now. I am trying to gather PvP players and let them tell me how they are playing this game as PvP players. So I can figure out what kind of activities I can come up with and how many people are interested in such. I also am trying to explain other about why PvP is so hated in ED and that PvP and PvE issues exist in every other game and there are ways that games use to deal with them. But above all to discuss the fact that there is no real motivation or support for PvP from the game in it's current state.

As you should be aware there is a big difference between you can always do what you want to do and you generally feel motivated to do what you want to do. Because there is some sort of benefit or encouragement for that activity. Yes we can gather and join small PvP community an play among us, but is this even a thing in this game since there is so much game mechanics for player vs player combat but no actual support with activities and benefits for it.

The point is that ED has the potential to be an amazing PvP game, but has Zero PvP content exempt to kill Commanders in Open world that gives you nothing and you are always at a loss.

PVP isn't hated it's just not interesting to a lot of players.

If you think my suggestions a good one, why not just put it into practice now alongside this thread. There's nothing wrong with taking some practical steps possibly in the right direction whilst also discussing it here, you might also get some fun PVP out of it. The discussions about PVP/PVE/modes have been going on for years, with no effect on the way people play and no opinions ever changed from what I can see.

Discussing theory hasn't worked/isn't working try an alternate more practical approach.

 

[digitalblade]

Taking part in a CG.

Interdicted 3 times. Destroyed 3 times with no communication.
After CG was over logged in at the station. Rammed to death by 'speed cops'.

Moved over to Private groups for all future CG's.

Thank you for sharing that. I have heard that a this is a thing to gank commanders doing the CGs. So basically your CGs goals where impossible to you in Open Play. Since the locations for CGs are common knowledge and they force a large player gatherings. They become a sweet target for PvP players.
That is done in most PvP games, you camp on mission locations or rare resource gathering locations. It is a nasty situation, but again enjoyable for PvP players and not so much for PvE players, not at all.

So if we remove the possibility of app PvP players playing nice, what you prefer that went down in those CG runs.

A: You had the Open Server with other Players that cannot attack you.
B: Your attackers were punished so hard, that they never try it again, ever.
C: You explain your solution.

Last question did this experience made you change the way you play in Open Play or force you to play in Open Play less?

 

[ALGOMATIC]

See, this is something that always strikes me as a bit of a paradox.

Currently a person can be a raging murder-hobo one minute and then, when they decide that they want another pair of god-rolled PAs or they need another billion credits to build another flying death-machine, they can simply opt out of PvP, rejoin the "herd" and expect no consequences for their previous actions.

And, for ultimate irony, they can do it in Solo mode, if they wish to avoid being treated the way they treat others when the mood takes them.

And then, once they're done "playing nice" they can jump back into their flying death-machines, return to shooting up anybody else they stumble across and come on the forums to whine about how Solo/PvE is ruining the game etc.

Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.

I do all my game activities in OPEN, I fly my travel weaponless d rated ASP when doing engineer/credits grind in OPEN exclusively.

This game has no challange except from other players and I always hope to run into another cmdr even in my ASP, if I would do it in SOLO I would fall a sleep in SC.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

If the opportunities for PVP are lacking in ED why not try to organize some, start a thread nominate a CZ/res site/compromised nav beacon/anything and ask PVP'ers far and wide to come and have a go if they think they are hard enough. If it proves popular you could ask the mods to sticky it. It wouldn't take much effort just pick a location.

That way you'll have better more challenging fights from CMDR's who are prepared and should struggle less to find likeminded players, also people who fancy trying PVP can turn up and have a go.

We already have it in Open, anyone flying in there agrees for PVP, everything is orginized as needed.

 

[digitalblade]

Discussing theory hasn't worked/isn't working try an alternate more practical approach.

I am happy for any reply. But what you are suggesting me is to "just play the game". I will do that, I just want to hear the experience of other like me for how they play the game. I also am interested in the other non PvP players since we coexist and I like to know their experience with PvP as we play in Open Play and they have only two option to either be a part of it or play Solo.

My greatest fear is that eventually this will end up being a Single player game with a Co-Op function. If that is the case this is not an MMO any more and is of little interest for PvP players.

 

[Stigbob]

We already have it in Open, anyone flying in there agrees for PVP, everything is orginized as needed.

And how is that working out for you ?, based on the forum it's a constant source of irritation to PVP'ers that most players simply don't want to know.

I am happy for any reply. But what you are suggesting me is to "just play the game". I will do that, I just want to hear the experience of other like me for how they play the game. I also am interested in the other non PvP players since we coexist and I like to know their experience with PvP as we play in Open Play and they have only two option to either be a part of it or play Solo.

My greatest fear is that eventually this will end up being a Single player game with a Co-Op function. If that is the case this is not an MMO any more and is of little interest for PvP players.

I'm not saying just play the game, I'm saying you lament the lack of interest in or opportunities for PVP and worry about the future of PVP. I think it might be good idea to try and make it more inclusive and tempting for other players by creating a location people know about where PVP can be easily had for those who are and (this is the important bit) might be interested.

What have PVP'ers got to lose by trying to take a step away from the divisive us and them dictatorial approach which has been falling flat for three years ?.

 

[lokvette]

Have zero interest in pvp in this game never have never will, thus my ED pvp experience is none and will continue to be none for now till FD pull the plug.

Pve sever, never going to happen so I will continue to play in solo, if I want interaction with others I will log into that well known PG.

I say the same things in all these pve/pvp/solo/ threads and no doubt will continue to say the same thing in the next incarnation of this topic.