Elite Dangerous is the Largest Empty Sandbox Ever Made

[mbar]

Not thrilling but nice.

Such threads remind me of bored king that sits on his throne all day and with mortally bored voice demands: "entertain me". Jugglers came in, fire eaters came in, sexy belly dancers came in... All are met with same reaction. Booooriiiing. So boring.

And I see players behaving like that king. They sit, they watch and eternally bored still demand to be entertain. Without any effort from their side. They are like junkies on withdrawal, all they care is more stimuli.

Made me think of History of the World Part 1. Caesars palace.

Spoiler

[video=youtube;Wtr-tbnOZUg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wtr-tbnOZUg[/video]
and
[video=youtube;-RlbYMVlq3k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RlbYMVlq3k[/video]

 

[Sylveria]

Made me think of History of the World Part 1. Caesars palace.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wtr-tbnOZUg
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RlbYMVlq3k

Still one of my favorite movies, ever.

"The muse is upon me! Bring me a small lyre!!!"

 

[Earthshine]

Thats another ill logical thing you do. I cannot even describe how broken your basic logic is. There is randomness, which is out of a players control. And there is palyer controlled randomness. I can actively choose not to roll, on interduiction and blocked landing pads. This making it always more efficient to go solo over open. The other rolls, like misisons and wahtever are not within the players control. Buit thats the same dice thrown no matter of open or solo. it is therefore not a decision the player can even consider. Choice is what you can affect actively. And by choice open is either the same or less efficient depending ont he rolls of the various dices.

please avoid gambling in any kind of luck based games, you would make inferior choices with your logic.

Have to agree with the basic point here....

Solo is less risky.

The question is....is solo less fun? I can't comment on the statistics because I don't know them but anecdotally it seems people are preferring solo for getting-things-done. To me that means open is too risky - I don't play in open for this reason, I have limited time and I usually want to either: A) Have a relaxing time without the concern of dealing with unpredictable players or B) progress in my self-set goals.

To my mind that isn't solvable without punishing those who play in solo for reasons other than diminished risk. So personally I'd give up entirely on that avenue of inquiry. I'd instead want to look at making the chance of pvp beneficial in a tangential fashion. I.e. don't reward with more e.g. merits, but give some other benefit specifically related to PvP. Also, allow some measure of benefit to be applied to cmdrs who are defeated. Perhaps some kind of discount token for insurance/repairs? I can't think of any good ideas off the top of my head that aren't a bit gamey right now however.

To my mind PvP should be fun, and it should be its own reward. However I do think the costs of it are too high at present - especially for an irregular player such as myself.

 

[CMDR John Casey]

I have 3 simple recipes to fill that box:
-change the CZ mechanics: have capital ships that do something, add targets (like protect CS until it reaches the target), make them dynamically move through the system.
-change exploration mechanics: shorter scan times, let scans include surface data (eliminate surface scanner); surface features may appear as bleep to require landing to investigate them and make them rewarding discoveries. Add dangers to surface exploration. Add exploration drones that may land automatically to look for surface features.
-add a heat map of player activities visible on the galaxy map to automatically discover points of player activity

Add this and your game doesn't even need 3.0

 

[S3B4ST13N]

There's a saying I saw a while back that I find rather accurate: "mile wide, inch deep"

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

If the same threads saying the same thing keep popping up month after month, maybe that should tell you something.

I see flat-earther comments popping up, month after month under most NASA posts/publications. Now what does it tell me?

 

[Sylveria]

I see flat-earther comments popping up, month after month under most NASA posts/publications. Now what does it tell me?

You mean... the moon landing really wasn't a hoax???? :gasp:

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I havent played the game in over six months.. I'll never leave the forum, I like the moderators too much to say goodbye

So, what you are saying is if the moderators quit the forums, you will as well?

Hmm... anyone want to start a kickstarter?

 

[S3B4ST13N]

I see flat-earther comments popping up, month after month under most NASA posts/publications. Now what does it tell me?

That flat-earthers are nutbags?

 

[Sylveria]

That flat-earthers are nutbags?

*woooooosshhhhh*

 

[Deleted member 110222]

[video=youtube_share;Jm932Sqwf5E]https://youtu.be/Jm932Sqwf5E[/video]

 

[IndigoWyrd]

If you're going to dig around in the sandbox, take this:

you never know what you might find.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I don't play Power, so forgive my ignorance.

Is it really a worthwhile reason though? It would depend, could you drop off fortification tokens yourself in larger quantities than you can stop them? For example (numbers are very much bollox)

Situation 1:
In 1 hour on average you manage to stop 3 traders: 1500t not delivered.
In 1 hour on average you could have delivered 500t 6 times: 3000t delivered.
In this situation, the delivering party will always out-compete the blocking party.

Situation 2:
In 1 hour on average you manage to stop 6 traders: 3000t not delivered.
In 1 hour on average you could have delivered 500t 3 times: 1500t delivered.
In this situation, the blocking party will always out-compete the delivering party.

I am guessing 1 is more likely than 2, but because of former mentioned ignorance, is that the case?

More likely, within a few weeks, those who don't want PvP will have all those PvPers on their block lists and open will be just like PG for them, and we are back to square one, except this time the call will be for FD to remove the block function.

Still, that whole debate belongs elsewhere (and exists in several threads elsewhere). This thread is about sand in the sandbox, which PP has to some extent regardless of who is playing in what mode.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

So, what you are saying is if the moderators quit the forums, you will as well?

Hmm... anyone want to start a kickstarter?

ED Forum Moderator Removal
( only Engrish Punds accepted )
5 Punds - Your name on a Credits list.
10 Punds - Your name on a Credits list with a Tweet-sized custom message.
25 Punds - Your name on a Credits list with a Tweet-sized custom message and your message printed on an A4 laminated page.
50 Punds - All of the above, and box of marbles - inferring you're nuts for handing over 50 Punds for this.
100 Punds - All of the above, and a T-Shirt that reads "I blame T.J."

*woooooosshhhhh*

Or, perhaps the inference from the comparison was so ridiculous it wasn't worthy of a proper response.

 

[Old Duck]

It's the saddest part about Elite when you understand how the game works. It's the largest empty sandbox ever made that is full of kiddie rides with no depth or imagination..

How many hours of enjoyment did you get from the game before you came to this conclusion? The claim that ED is "empty" with "no depth" and "no imagination" is utter rubbish.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

No it doesn't. The reward and incentive to play in open is to meet and have fun with other players. If you want to play the META game than that's your choice, but it's not going to dictate how we play the game.

Another illogical conclusion.
If that were true, mobius wouldn't exist.
But why doe sit exist to that size while open is dead?
Mobius is just the inbetween of the opens major issues taken away. Going solo is not about going meta as hard as possible.
There is neither the reward nor incentive in open, because if it were there people would go open instead of solo, or even mobius. Your conclusion is s imply wrong, and thats prrofen by the players choices for these 3 offered possibilities and their acceptance.
You cannot say open is fine and it's for multipalyer fun, because Mobius is multiplayer fun, so where is that issue comign from that mobius works and not open? The answer is just what many don't want to hear or pretent to not being true - or lain out ignore.

But he truth is, there is no real incentive to go open, if it were there, people would go there. Claiming they are equal is not true as player behavior does counter this logic.

Open is also not like Mobius, nor like solo, if it were, people would distribute equally amongst them.

Multipalyer fun you spoke of is the incentive that works in mobius, but fails in open. So why?

That's my point - Open can be just the same as the other two modes.

CAN, is already the issue, it needs to be AT LEAST as good as solo otherwise it's not chosen

A >= B is not the same as

A <= B just becasue there is that case that in both being A = B

 

[Robert Maynard]

But why doe sit exist to that size while open is dead?

Those Private Groups exist because some players don't like direct PvP (although the PGs did initially allow PvP in CZs but even this was disallowed comparatively recently). There are differing opinions regarding the number of players in Open, of course.

CAN, is already the issue, it needs to be AT LEAST as good as solo otherwise it's not chosen

A >= B is not the same as

A <= B just becasue there is that case that in both being A = B

It depends on the magnitude of ABS(B-A) really.

Whether the players' desire to play among other players, for better or worse, outweighs their desire to Min/Max in pursuit of their chosen goal is for them to decide. It is up to each player, at the start of every play session, in which game mode they choose to play.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

How many hours of enjoyment did you get from the game before you came to this conclusion? The claim that ED is "empty" with "no depth" and "no imagination" is utter rubbish.

No depth, and no imagination ... yes, I agree. Rubbish.
But .. and I'm going to reiterate this as it's a highly accurate idiom .. Elite is a mile wide, but an inch deep.

Example..
Mining.
This is what I consider to be depth:
Mining lasers of different types and sizes and power requirements; different drill heads that produce different lasers for different types of mining etc
Gas mining of gas giants, or other gas planets - right now, those could be drones or depots.
Automated mining drones which can be deployed in a field and go around collecting minerals within a certain range of the ship
Automated mining depots which can be deployed on an asteroid
Automated refinery depots
Automated processing plants (create your own supply chain)
Mining research that upgrades scanners/drones (with the necessary software or hardware changes to implement it)
Deep core mining stations on planets
Ice-mining with deep crust mining stations on ice planets
Dedicated mining ship that is capable of doing all of the above. Very slow. Very strong (designed to withstand impact of asteroids). Decently armed to protect against pirates.
MultiCrew Mining features

etc etc etc

ED has plenty of things to do (mile wide), but not enough to do those things with (inch deep); there aren't enough options available. Not enough sand. I should be able to build a sand castle, but I'm limited to sticking little twigs into the sand.

 

[Cosmo]

How many hours of enjoyment did you get from the game before you came to this conclusion? The claim that ED is "empty" with "no depth" and "no imagination" is utter rubbish.

That's an exaggeration, but the sandbox definitely lacks sand.

Do you know why games like Terraria, Eve Online, Minecraft are still so popular after several years? Because they these are sandbox games with lots of sand a tools for players to mold, influence and control stuff.

Deep Sandbox

(Eve Online, Minecraft, Terraria, Ultima Online, Conan Exiles, Star Wars Galaxies etc)

Lots of sand and tools for players to make their own things!

Shallow Sandbox

(Elite Dangerous)

Frontier gave us a spoon and a little sand to play with atm. Players can create, mold and control very little compared to Eve Online, Star Wars Galaxies and other great sandbox games.

No depth, and no imagination ... yes, I agree. Rubbish.
But .. and I'm going to reiterate this as it's a highly accurate idiom .. Elite is a mile wide, but an inch deep.

Example..
Mining.
This is what I consider to be depth:
Mining lasers of different types and sizes and power requirements; different drill heads that produce different lasers for different types of mining etc
Gas mining of gas giants, or other gas planets - right now, those could be drones or depots.
Automated mining drones which can be deployed in a field and go around collecting minerals within a certain range of the ship
Automated mining depots which can be deployed on an asteroid
Automated refinery depots
Automated processing plants (create your own supply chain)
Mining research that upgrades scanners/drones (with the necessary software or hardware changes to implement it)
Deep core mining stations on planets
Ice-mining with deep crust mining stations on ice planets
Dedicated mining ship that is capable of doing all of the above. Very slow. Very strong (designed to withstand impact of asteroids). Decently armed to protect against pirates.
MultiCrew Mining features

etc etc etc

ED has plenty of things to do (mile wide), but not enough to do those things with (inch deep); there aren't enough options available. Not enough sand. I should be able to build a sand castle, but I'm limited to sticking little twigs into the sand.

Great suggestions there.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

But he truth is, there is no real incentive to go open, if it were there, people would go there. Claiming they are equal is not true as player behavior does counter this logic.

Open is also not like Mobius, nor like solo, if it were, people would distribute equally amongst them.

Multipalyer fun you spoke of is the incentive that works in mobius, but fails in open. So why?

I don't know. Certain people keep telling us PvEers that you can only have fun in open and all other modes are boring. So i guess the answer is it must be more fun in open, that's the incentive. I'm sorry to be a party pooper though. I probably just don't want tht additional fun. It might be a fun overload!!!!

As for distribution, polls in the past have tended to show more players regularly play in open than in any other mode. 40% and upwards. (of course, all such polls are unreliable but they are best indication we have).

And besides, why does it matter?

Solo players are happy with solo and don't complain about the existance of PGs or Open.
PG players are happy with PGs and don't complain about Solo or Open.
Most Open players are happy with Open and don't complain about PGs or Solo.
A small number of people can't stand the idea that people are playing in other modes (for various reasons), and just can't accept that others prefer to play in those modes. That everyone must submit to their way of playing the game.

This is rather sad.