Elite Dangerous is the Largest Empty Sandbox Ever Made

[Ziggy Stardust]

I like it and have tried such stuff in the past but the problem I see is that (you as someone who doesn't really do group gameplay) it's these groups (you can spot them, you're usually arguing against their desire for a space station or some such) that for them winning is everything. Its not about the journey, having experiences like trying to blag your way past a FDL pilot while in an adder during an onionhead smuggling CG, it's about the win. That's the payoff. Particularly when it gets faction vs. faction. Not one of these groups would be willing to sacrifice a chance at a victory, regardless of how hollow it would be.

Where's the fun in that?

Hmmm, in that case it may not be the people happily plottering in Solo/PG who are your biggest hurdle to reach the kind of gameplay you had in mind. Regardless, I say there must be a lot of people subscribing to the fun scenario you outlined. Maybe enlist the help of the Hutton truckers. They are well aware of how to organize events, are a fun bunch, and there must be some of them who enjoy powerplay.

None of this defeatist talk you hear me!

 

[Old Duck]

New CGs!!!! Now go all and play in the sand

 

[Rampant]

I think they still happen. I've never been hyperdicted, so don't really know.

I do know if I want to fight a Thargoid, I go down to the Pleiades and look for USS's.

I do enough searching for USS's doing engineering. I'm not doing it looking for the content of 2.4.

This is exactly what is wrong with some PvP types in this *GAME*.

I highlighted the word *GAME* for an explicit reason. The reason is that the *GAME* content involves, among other things, USSs. Thargoids, for instance, are *GAME* content.

Some PvP types eschew that content, for the simple reason that they are pursuing RNG minmax in order to then pursue PvP and get plain tired of the mechanic that is used for the *GAME* content.

Moreover, because they then have an *UNBALANCED* minmax combat ship, as a direct consequence some of the *GAME* becomes a bit too trivial. Which is the second reason to be tired of the *GAME* content.

There are tertiary reasons as well, but the upshot is that these PvP types then are unable to find the existing *GAME* content to be fun.

The tragedy here is that these PvP types then want to change the *GAME* from what it was envisaged and designed to be into some other game that isn't the *GAME* that the rest of the player base enjoy and have fun with.

Sadly, it was the engineers that enabled this domino effect but lets be clear the domino effect was only "set into motion" by the PvP types.

What I fail to understand is why these PvP types (and I'm not generalising about all PvP enthusiasts, just some of them) can't take the game's designer at his word that in the galaxy of Elite, PvP was *supposed* to be rare. It wasn't *supposed* to be performed against every single other player you see in the scanner. Buy hey, "valid gameplay" is as erudite as the response ever gets to that truthful observation.

Now, this post will probably trigger the range of carebear forumdad valid gameplay responses that normally follow, instead of tackling the root cause of the lack of entertainment the PvP types I'm talking about get from this *GAME*.

I want to state. Crystal clear. That I too would like many improvements in this game. The key concept is "improvement". Not wholesale change. I'm not the fanboi or skill-less or sticky in ft her mud that I'll probably.be accused of now. Ho hum.

I have a lot of fun while playing Elite: Dangerous. I'm determined to keep it that way. In order for that to happen I deliberately don't go in for wide-scale engineering of my ships. Making a mega-vessel just makes the game a bit too easy. So I won't do that. Besides, it really doesn't sound like fun to engage in wide-scale engineering. Double less fun, then.

The upshot here is that as a player who has absolutely no interest in PvP in the first place, and who doesn't want to engage in not fun gameplay in order to prepare for the potential of not fun PvP because that would reduce my fun in the *GAME* as a direct consequence. Again, double less fun.

I'm really concerned about players who deliberately avoid the *GAME* in order to pursue the *NOT-GAME* and then want the *GAME* to be made into something different just for them, and in doing so, push aside those players views who actually enjoy the *GAME*. Which when you read it like that highlights just how bizarre the demand to change really is. Or us that just me?

I'm also really concerned about the perversion of the word "balance" that is being foisted around. Any player who deliberately builds an unbalanced mega-ship and then calls for the *GAME* to catch up is missing the plain obvious. They have already pursued imbalance by choice. They have more than likely also pushed that imbalance onto other players. At least that is what they tell us in multiple threads. Even so, I'm not sure I can trust this type of player. You know: the type that says "I attacked a player because I'm roleplaying *this* today" rather than the truth that they are "roleplaying *this* today because I want to attack other players (I always attack other players BTW)".

So I'm having a real hard time swallowing the claim that the changes being suggested for the good of the *GAME*.

Yes, I would like to see changes too, but the changes absolutely must fit into the original design ethos rather than morph it into something not Elite.

Yours Aye

Mark H

 

[Sylveria]

Where's the fun in that?

Hmmm, in that case it may not be the people happily plottering in Solo/PG who are your biggest hurdle to reach the kind of gameplay you had in mind. Regardless, I say there must be a lot of people subscribing to the fun scenario you outlined. Maybe enlist the help of the Hutton truckers. They are well aware of how to organize events, are a fun bunch, and there must be some of them who enjoy powerplay.

None of this defeatist talk you hear me!

Exactly. Organize the players, use Reddit and the forums to recruit and enlist others who are like-minded and really want to make Open a different place, changing the current paradigm into one where it's not filled with toxic GSP's and psychopaths to one where you created a meaningful gameplay environment, attracting perhaps others who may want to dip their toes into it.

As I said before, if those people who (not pointing any fingers here) spent most of their time directing anger and hatred towards solo/pg players on here, Reddit, Discord, or whatever venue chose to spend their valuable energy in a positive direction, you might see a shift. Maybe.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

That's because according to those who use the term everyone who plays in solo is a care bear. On the other hand not everyone who does PvP is griefer.

Totally not true. Not in Elite Dangerous.

The definition of a carebear in Elite Dangerous among the PVPers at least are the people a.) Go into open play knowing they have a chance to be shot at at any time then, then have the audacity to complain about it. Or b.) People that fight over objectives against other players without fighting them directly for it.

Yes we know other game systems exist. But they have their own respected players in open too. Especially with groups like mine.

A lot of us dont care if solo and private exist and 99% of the activities in them are perfectly fine. A lot of us use Solo and Private ourselves. Especially a streamer like me when I hold events with my chat.

But if I fight for objectives, I do it in open play with everyone else. I die, I have a crap ton of rebuys from it. Or consensual PVP.

You know its pretty dang funny watching these forums. And yeah there are some people that go to Sag A or whatever. But for the most part, us regular PVPers leave everyone else alone.

We arent going to learn or get better going after some random trader.

I have killed DJtruthsayer while he was AFK though, thats the only real "grief" I have ever done. He was pretty dang mad at first. But we are cool. Always have been probably always will be. In game and out of game.

A lot of people around here blow things way out of proportion. And assume things from the salt videos that come out because thats ALL you see. Thats all YOU WANT TO SEE. When in reality those are few and far between, Most of the time we have fights like this and leave everyone else alone.

[video=youtube;edob6N3OfYU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edob6N3OfYU&t[/video]

If I may, id like to talk about a few points in this video, Watch Chickens pip management, watch how he evades after shields go down. Watch how I apply constant pressure, use rails for banks. There is a lot more, but there is some good flying here from both sides.

Ah well, PVP can be fun. And so could powerplay. See Id love to be the trader for BGS or powerplay. Id love to have a wing supporting me. We really arent in it for the salt. The Salt comes because thats all there is, and too be honest some people deserve it.

Team comps or Wing Comps are certainly a thing. Really interesting how this part of the game is really close to something like League of Legends when it comes to Cooldowns, Positioning, Modules and special effects. Pressure and applying Heat to someone running Incendiary. Or bringing Missiles to counter Hull tanks.

A lot of you guys here really have no idea. And its sad.

Because us PVPers see what it could be.

And just like your comment, these forums generalize everything. And most of it is because people lack experience.

 

[Stigbob]

Even the most repetitive games like Battlefield keep me playing now for more than 12 (!) years as every round is different. New players, new skills. PUBG is one of the best games on PC at the moment. Thrilling, unexpected things due to real player interaction etc. With a 5 to 10 year roadmap and Elite being out now for 3 years, the basic game still did not change onr inch nor did FDev manage to make the dull repetition in any way interesting by integrating a story or at least something meaningful the player can follow with his gameplay. The implementation of the Thargoids is not more than a new ship class with new skins and a few shiny light effect. That could be *any* new ship they brought into the game.

I'm absolutely convinced that the inderlying game mechanics got planned and implemented in such a terrible way, that the entire game got stuck to the gameplay that the game offered from minute 1. Terrible.

I'm still enjoying ED having played since gamma, I don't grind though. Nothing can keep you occupied perpetually especially if you hammer at the most tedious aspects of it to get unnecessary god-modules, once you hit thousands of hours played things will inevitably get dull. I like fallout 3 vanilla/expansions/mods/new vegas and I've played it into submission to the point where I know where everything/everyone is even the landmines. That doesn't make me mad with the makers of fallout 3 or the game, it means it's time to buy fallout 4 or play ED instead.

 

[bootsam]

Ive played battlefield since its inception ie BF1942, then BF2, BF3 & BF4. I rarely play BF1 anymore. I tried the new CoD, thats as dull as dishwater also. PUBG is a rampant cheat fest. Most FPS MP games are nowadays. Im done with them. If its not cheats, its hill humpers with few PTFO. Then you read the game chat. Jeez.

I also CS'd and a mod of Q3 Urban Terror in clan leagues, but the new fps games do nothing for me anymore.

The new CoD is so rubbish, Im tempted to get a refund as I never even bothered finishing the campaign it was so bad. The MP version is barely any better. Dont get me started on linear wolfenstein.

Im fairly decent at all fps pvp, not a gaming god by any stretch of the imagination. This games pvp interests me even less. Its not a pvp game. Its a game where there may be a wee tiny bit of pvp in it if you wish. The pvp in this game is limited by the fact everyone is widespread over an entire galaxy. Plus its further limited due to a sizeable percentage who are not interested in any pvp.

This is a 90/10 PvE game and the 10% pvp is merely a sideshow.

Even scrapping with the occassional npc makes my left thumb twitch as if to keep hammering the space bar to bunny hop. It a bleeding reflex action now I cant shift.

 

[babelfisch]

Totally not true. Not in Elite Dangerous.

The definition of a carebear in Elite Dangerous among the PVPers at least are the people a.) Go into open play knowing they have a chance to be shot at at any time then, then have the audacity to complain about it. Or b.) People that fight over objectives against other players without fighting them directly for it.

Yes we know other game systems exist. But they have their own respected players in open too. Especially with groups like mine.

A lot of us dont care if solo and private exist and 99% of the activities in them are perfectly fine. A lot of us use Solo and Private ourselves. Especially a streamer like me when I hold events with my chat.

But if I fight for objectives, I do it in open play with everyone else. I die, I have a crap ton of rebuys from it. Or consensual PVP.

You know its pretty dang funny watching these forums. And yeah there are some people that go to Sag A or whatever. But for the most part, us regular PVPers leave everyone else alone.

We arent going to learn or get better going after some random trader.

I have killed DJtruthsayer while he was AFK though, thats the only real "grief" I have ever done. He was pretty dang mad at first. But we are cool. Always have been probably always will be. In game and out of game.

A lot of people around here blow things way out of proportion. And assume things from the salt videos that come out because thats ALL you see. Thats all YOU WANT TO SEE. When in reality those are few and far between, Most of the time we have fights like this and leave everyone else alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edob6N3OfYU&t

If I may, id like to talk about a few points in this video, Watch Chickens pip management, watch how he evades after shields go down. Watch how I apply constant pressure, use rails for banks. There is a lot more, but there is some good flying here from both sides.

Ah well, PVP can be fun. And so could powerplay. See Id love to be the trader for BGS or powerplay. Id love to have a wing supporting me. We really arent in it for the salt. The Salt comes because thats all there is, and too be honest some people deserve it.

Team comps or Wing Comps are certainly a thing. Really interesting how this part of the game is really close to something like League of Legends when it comes to Cooldowns, Positioning, Modules and special effects. Pressure and applying Heat to someone running Incendiary. Or bringing Missiles to counter Hull tanks.

A lot of you guys here really have no idea. And its sad.

Because us PVPers see what it could be.

And just like your comment, these forums generalize everything. And most of it is because people lack experience.

Ever read one of ALGOMATICs posts?

Anyway, so you call everyone a care bear who fights for his goals in solo, while this is absolutely what was advertised when he bought the game?
I think your argument is pretty weak

In Solo play you can choose never meet another human player, yet the results of your actions still contribute to economy, politics and conflicts of the connected galaxy, and you experience the echoes of their activity.

 

[Sylveria]

Ive played battlefield since its inception ie BF1942, then BF2, BF3 & BF4. I rarely play BF1 anymore. I tried the new CoD, thats as dull as dishwater also. PUBG is a rampant cheat fest. Most FPS MP games are nowadays. Im done with them. If its not cheats, its hill humpers with few PTFO. Then you read the game chat. Jeez.

I also CS'd and a mod of Q3 Urban Terror in clan leagues, but the new fps games do nothing for me anymore.

The new CoD is so rubbish, Im tempted to get a refund as I never even bothered finishing the campaign it was so bad. The MP version is barely any better. Dont get me started on linear wolfenstein.

Im fairly decent at all fps pvp, not a gaming god by any stretch of the imagination. This games pvp interests me even less. Its not a pvp game. Its a game where there may be a wee tiny bit of pvp in it if you wish. The pvp in this game is limited by the fact everyone is widespread over an entire galaxy. Plus its further limited due to a sizeable percentage who are not interested in any pvp.

This is a 90/10 PvE game and the 10% pvp is merely a sideshow.

Even scrapping with the occassional npc makes my left thumb twitch as if to keep hammering the space bar to bunny hop. It a bleeding reflex action now I cant shift.

Well spoken.

And it's truly amazing that some here infer that we "don't have a clue" or we "lack experience", etc. They don't have ANY idea what the eff they're talking about.

MANY of us who choose NOT to engage in PvP in ED have come from "PvP backgrounds". We just choose not to HERE for whatever our own reasons are- which are all valid, even if it's not your own reason.

 

[sovapid]

Like I pointed out elsewhere, noted Elite Dangerous author Drew Wagar came it his senses on this topic. So there is hope for the rest of you.

Interesting that Drew has also uninstalled Elite and moved on to bigger and better things.


https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...on_is_why_did_no_one_at_fdev_came_up/dpkr50p/

Having thought about it I don't think you can have the opportunity for storytelling and emergent content (in open) and have the same story in (private/solo). I fear the modes are mutually exclusive.
In hindsight (a wonderful thing) perhaps we should have had only 'open' mode from the start. However, I would have been 100% against that at the time and would have voted thus with my Kickstarter backing.
Changed my mind in the interim.

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

Obsidian Ant's latest video has one of the best comments ever about Elite Dangerous:

Fdev built one of the largest sandbox's in video game history.. then? when it came time to put sand into it? They just built some kiddie theme park rides that offer the same experience over and over. Thargoids are just another theme park. You get on the ride.. see everything there is.. Than there is nothing left but to get on that ride again..... It makes sense for World of Warcraft.. you pay a monthly subscription and Blizzard has 200-300 full time developers building new rides.. In Elite? It wastes limited developer time.. hurts the game.. and ultimately doesn't add any sand to the box.

If there isn't Sand put in the box for Players to actually mold, change and influence themselves.. In an innovative and bold way.. This game will just fall off into obscurity.

It's the saddest part about Elite when you understand how the game works. It's the largest empty sandbox ever made that is full of kiddie rides with no depth or imagination.. In a Game "Galaxy" concept built and based on the idea of depth and imagination. Quite a paradox? Just give players the "Sand" That is all the Developers should be spending their time on. Instead you get CQC, Multicrew, Thargoids, CG's. Placing stations instead of letting players build them.... It's madness.

Link to the subreddit.

P.S. the comment was made by someone else below the video.

Here's my comments:





Suggestions to make the sandbox deep:

I have left elite dangerous on the shelf for now and have gone back to Star Trek Online and I have even gotten a life time sub for sto because with all the bugs that sto has there is more to do and I am haveing more fun playing Star Trek Online than Elite Dangerous right now.
And mind you I am the founder of the Earth Defense Fleet.
Frontier Development has to rethink there development priorities and they have to do it NOW. This game NEEDS Squadrons soon rather than later it NEEDS GROUP GAMEPLAY NOW. To be quite honest I will more than likely not play elite dangerous at all in 2018 if Squadrons are coming out at the end of the year and if they don’t add depth to Squadrons I can see myself not bothering to spend any time in elite dangerous. And I truly love the game but for me there is nothing to do in the game as of now or in the near future.

 

[Stigbob]

Like I pointed out elsewhere, noted Elite Dangerous author Drew Wagar came it his senses on this topic. So there is hope for the rest of you.

Interesting that Drew has also uninstalled Elite and moved on to bigger and better things.


https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...on_is_why_did_no_one_at_fdev_came_up/dpkr50p/

I'm sure FDEV will base their decisions on the games metrics as opposed to reddit.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

It's amazing how many people can't differentiate between 'The game NEEDS' and 'I would PREFER it if the game had'.

 

[Sylveria]

I'm sure FDEV will base their decisions on the games metrics as opposed to reddit.

Aye.

Which, as I've stated before, Reddit's voting up/down can be padded by those who have never even purchased or played the game to begin with.

I have yet to see it disproved.

 

[Oss133]

It's amazing how many people can't differentiate between 'The game NEEDS' and 'I would PREFER it if the game had'.

This post NEEDS more capitals

 

[babelfisch]

Like I pointed out elsewhere, noted Elite Dangerous author and Drew Wagar came it his senses on this topic. So there is hope for the rest of you.

Interesting that Drew has also uninstalled Elite and moved on to bigger and better things.


https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...on_is_why_did_no_one_at_fdev_came_up/dpkr50p/

Not sure if I take his advice serious after he hired Harry Potter to kill Salami.

 

[Sylveria]

This post NEEDS more capitals

You need to add that one as a quote for your avatar gif

 

[sovapid]

I'm sure FDEV will base their decisions on the games metrics as opposed to reddit.

Ah, so you think FDev doesn't listen to player feedback and makes their decisions based on metrics?

Intersting.

So this is one big charade?: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/234-Beyond-Series-Focused-Feedback

And what Sandro and Ed have been saying on the live streams is a ruse?

 

[Sylveria]

Ah, so you think FDev doesn't listen to player feedback and makes their decisions based on metrics?

Intersting.

So this is one big charade?: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/234-Beyond-Series-Focused-Feedback

And what Sandro and Ed have been saying on the live streams is a ruse?

I'm quite sure they "glean" the feedback, but that doesn't mean they make all their decisions based on Reddit feedback. Grain of salt, and all that.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Ever read one of ALGOMATICs posts?

Anyway, so you call everyone a care bear who fights for his goals in solo, while this is absolutely what was advertised when he bought the game?
I think your argument is pretty weak

Which is exactly why there are problems here.

Anything thats direct PVP, even in powerplay people yell grief. Because you dont have to play in open to complete the goals. There is no Meaning for PVP. My argument is on point. I understand how it is now, I always have. The problem is its cause a lot of problems. Not just for me or PVPers but for the people that are out there doing their own thing too.

Pirating pays like crap, There is no reason to shoot other commanders besides salt. Especially when it comes to objectives. There should really be a buff to Merits when it comes to other commanders for One. With some Diminishing returns effect so there is no win trading.

But im sorry man, a lot of people fighting against this stuff. Really dont even take part in it. Except for Mad Mike.

Now Mad Mike, I dont believe he fights against other players through the BGS and I am sure hes perfectly fine doing his own thing. He loves solo and I can respect that. And I dont want to see anything taken away from people like him.

But the multiplayer features of this game are suffering. Where player factions, groups and powerplay reside. We really need One mode where everyone thats involved plays together. Where we atleast have the chance of seeing someone else, and have the capabilities to do this, [video=youtube_share;0545WHDzT7w]https://youtu.be/0545WHDzT7w?t=2148[/video]

Make this work. Between this and the PVP hub, which I found out recently they have a MMR rating within their system is going to be really cool. You'll see less griefing.

And if they apply this to the BGS and ONLY TO SYSTEMS WITH PLAYER FACTIONS IN THEM. Everyone wins.

Not really seeing why this is a issue?