Basic question about ED is it MMO or Co-op single player.

[Lateralus]

Using PvP to defend against PvE actions relies on ones opponent also engaging in an entirely optional play-style.

Yes and its a bad system. You said yourself that BGS warfare is a form of PvP, allowing it to happen from solo or private modes is a contradiction. Solo and Private play should be for that very reason, not conducting hostile actions against others.

Bounty cap: it's 1M Cr. because players were colluding to generate large bounties to be harvested.

Offering rewards for any PvP encounter that is meant to be contested is open to collusion by players - hence fewer PowerPlay merits being on offer for CMDR kills in comparison to NPC kills.

I'm aware of the exploits, but there are better ways to go about fixing them than throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Capping credits and merits is just a low-effort, poorly thought out way to deal with the problem.

Here's an idea of how bounty hunting for example could be rewarded better.

The block feature would seem to be necessary from Frontier's perspective - see Sandro's posts on the topic.

Again, low effort. They never consider how these mechanics will be used by players to avoid gameplay consequences. Why not require a report for instance blocking? If the reason is not valid according to the logs then it should be limited to comms.

Piracy in general or PvP piracy?

Both.

 

[Julio Montega]

Must be PvP. PvE piracy works quite well. Just wish FD would fix the ability of NPCs to jump while they should still be in cooldown.

...
There is more:
- NPCs do not play by our rules, Malfunctions do not happen on their hatches, so no cytoscrambler piracy
- NPCs with destroyed powerplant still bug out, without repairing it, and firing weapons and thrusters without power,
the ai control just lets them sit
- Jumping bugs yes, happens a lot lately as NPCs can spool the drive before they are locked by mass (seen at stations very often)
- NPCs are not persistant, there is no real harm to the economy

All this shouts out:
Piracy does not really work.

I don't agree.

PvE piracy requires specific missions for specific cargo to be profitable, as commodity prices are too low in the current 'economy' to support more opportunistic theft that should be the mainstay of most pirates. Even where it does mostly work, it's still hobbled by the lack of entity persistence from instance to instance, unless very specific tools are used in very specific ways.

The missions have another big flaw:
They require ships with big cargo holds.
Doing piracy you require hatchbreakers
and interdictors if you want to drain the ship to
the last drop and sufficient hold.

The numbers of tonnage on those missions are so high,
you hardly find work in smaller vessels below the python.

IMO piracy missions should be really hard, but really rewarding
missions, like VIP kidnapping, stealing valuable cargo
and art, or spying on installations and security to prepare
a follow up raid.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

MMO is not just label but type of game where players create their own content.

Not too sure where you got this from, but it is just not the case. LOTRO is a MMORPG, but has zero player created content and the same for about 90% of other MMO's out there.

 

[babelfisch]

I was going for an example I could have sworn blind you'd played. Apologies.

Im not writing a massive treatise on it, whilst on my phone

In that case I hope you don't expect FDEV to consider your feedback.

 

[babelfisch]

I'd argue that escape and evasion are most certainly parts of combat, critical ones at that.

And I'd argue that you completely missed the point.

To be fair, it wasn't the best example but it's really not that difficult to understand.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Yes and its a bad system. You said yourself that BGS warfare is a form of PvP, allowing it to happen from solo or private modes is a contradiction. Solo and Private play should be for that very reason, not conducting hostile actions against others.

Other opinions vary. Allowing all players to participate in the evolving galaxy, both economically and politically, has been at the core of Frontier's desired player experience from the outset.

I'm aware of the exploits, but there are better ways to go about fixing them than throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Capping credits and merits is just a low-effort, poorly thought out way to deal with the problem.

Here's an idea of how bounty hunting for example could be rewarded better.

Possibly - however how much development time is available to reconfigure a feature would seem to be dependent on the number of players engaging in it....

Again, low effort. They never consider how these mechanics will be used by players to avoid gameplay consequences. Why not require a report for instance blocking? If the reason is not valid according to the logs then it should be limited to comms.

.... or maybe players being able to block particular players is more important and the gameplay consequences are collateral damage in that regard.

 

[Goose4291]

In that case I hope you don't expect FDEV to consider your feedback.

Dont try and write a snarky response with an attached strawman, goal post moving statement, particularly when Im trying to answer your question. Firstly, you're not good at it and secondly i thought you were better than that

 

[XYZ]

Not too sure where you got this from, but it is just not the case. LOTRO is a MMORPG, but has zero player created content and the same for about 90% of other MMO's out there.

Basically from World of Warcraft, Life is Feudal, Arc Survival Evolved, Conan Exiles and so on. I hope you didnt have in mind games like Counter Strike or CoD when pointed that 90% of MMO's thingy.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Basically from World of Warcraft, Life is Feudal, Arc Survival Evolved, Conan Exiles and so on. I hope you didnt have in mind games like Counter Strike or CoD when pointed that 90% of MMO's thingy.

I gave an example: Lord of the rings online. What player created content is in World of Warcraft? And no I am not talking about Counter Strike or CoD. Games like Arc Survival and Conan Exiles are just a very small subset of MMO's out there with a very small amount of players per server (at the moment Conan Exiles has 70 players per server). Are they even MMO's as I don't see 70 players as being that great. Even if they up it to 100, it is still tiny.

 

[Goose4291]

I gave an example. What player created content is in World of Warcraft? And no I am not talking about Counter Strike or CoD. Games like Arc Survival and Conan Exiles are just a very small subset of MMO's out there.

Forgive my stupidity, but isnt there crafting and a vibrant player market in WoW?

 

[babelfisch]

... and this is the point where i am going. MMO is not just label but type of game where players create their own content. MMO is a type of game where content created by players is a main one leaving content created by developer as a background.This make a playerbase busy with themseves as content they are creaitng is dynamic one due to its competitive nature and at the same time it gives a time to developer to create more background content without players constant pressure... but this will be another thread.... soon...

I suggest you google theme park and sand box MMO. Anyway, as I pointed out earlier clear definitions on the term MMO do not exist.

Dont try and write a snarky response with an attached strawman, goal post moving statement, particularly when Im trying to answer your question. Firstly, you're not good at it and secondly i thought you were better than that

Problem is that you didn't answer my question. I suggest to watch the movie Death In Brunswick if you want to find out why. See what I just did?

PS
And I hope that this is as good as I am

 

[Goose4291]

I suggest you google theme park and sand box MMO. Anyway, as I pointed out earlier clear definitions on the term MMO do not exist.


Problem is that you didn't answer my question. I suggest to watch the movie Death In Brunswick if you want to find out why. See what I just did?

PS
And I hope that this is as good as I am

Not really. Because as I said in my earlier response I could have sworn blind you were a SWG vet, which is why I gave a quick response I thought you were aware of, whereas at no point have you explained that you thought I had seen the aforementioned film.

 

[bootsam]

Single player. As I only play Solo or PG. Someone who plays open will undoubtedly have different ideas though.

 

[babelfisch]

Not really. Because as I said in my earlier response I could have sworn blind you were a SWG vet, which is why I gave a quick response I thought you were aware of, whereas at no point have you explained that you thought I had seen the aforementioned film.

I thought you must have seen it because it fits your type of humour. On the other hand I can imagine that it's blacklisted in the US and A and I can also imagine that you are from Texas. I can tell you, my imagination is going nuts right now

 

[verminstar]

I thought you must have seen it because it fits your type of humour. On the other hand I can imagine that it's blacklisted in the US and A and I can also imagine that you are from Texas. I can tell you, my imagination is going nuts right now

Goose is many things but a yank aint one of them...this I know ^

 

[Goose4291]

I thought you must have seen it because it fits your type of humour. On the other hand I can imagine that it's blacklisted in the US and A and I can also imagine that you are from Texas. I can tell you, my imagination is going nuts right now

I see. So you're basing your example purely on what your imagining I'm like is exactly the same as me basing my example on wrongly remembering a discussion in the past that we've had?

I think you're being somewhat silly over all this, considering I apologised specifically for misremembering in my second post

 

[Jex =TE=]

I suppose it's an MMO a bit like MC is MultiCrew....

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Forgive my stupidity, but isnt there crafting and a vibrant player market in WoW?

You call that player made content. Crafting I have done in those games, and it is not what I would call content. It is more grindy then the engineers in ED. Player markets are: Grind out an item, put it up for sale, someone buys it. That is it. It's not what I would call worthwhile or compelling content.

 

[Sylveria]

It's an MMO-hybrid, if anything.

Online always, with optional Solo (Single Player) and Private Groups/Open (Multiplayer)

Many other games also use the same optional ability, just in different ways. This game is unique in the sense that you can fully experience the content without ever encountering another player (Solo) and/or just play with others always (PG/Open) but it's always your choice whichever you prefer. Other "MMO's" usually put the Multiplayer beforehand (Common area chat, other players are visible, etc.) but this one does not.

I think the "confusion" comes from the precedence set by other games, rather than allowing this one to set its own.

 

[SaliVader]

The problem with ED is that it tries to be everything at the same time:

- It is single player, but it can't be story focused (ie hand crafted missions) or have too many tools to play with the sandbox because it's also multiplayer and each CMDR is just a spec of dust in the galaxy (ie a single person can't make a difference)

- It is multiplayer, but we can't have dedicated servers for the instances because it's not worth it so we're left with questionable p2p connections what take the "massive" out of MMO. Aditionally, we can't have group tools to play in the sandbox, such as terraforming, building stations, etc (no, CGs are not good tools for this and yes, I know squadrons are coming, we'll see how that goes) because single players wouldn't use that feature so why bother? No raids, no dungeons, no "multiplayer content" outside of the BGS and PP which are just glorified grind races.

FDev needs to make up their mind about that kind of game Elite: Dangerous is.