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"Which is actually not the attacker's fault, is it?"
I'm sorry, what? the attacker is in full control of when and who they chose to attack thus yes, they are to blame, and they are accountable for only going after targets that are not prepared. This is not the game to blame, at all, because here's the thing, people can choose other targets, and it will always be like that, regardless of what features the game puts in, these type of attackers will always go after the easiest targets. So yeah....yeah they are accountable for only going after weak targets, and only going after weak targets does not help anyone 'git gud', heck if anyone needs to 'git gud' as they seem to call it, it is the attackers that need to you know, attack a target that provides a challenge and reward, rather then just blowing up easy targets? where there is no gain at all. Where a big target might actually have viable loot and similar to earn a profit on, but yeah we know that isn't the point of their attacks, they don't want a challenge, they don't want loot, they want to beat their chests and be superior to someone else, that's it.
Ok lets make a list of what you say is needed with this solution presented.
- T7 ship - 17 mil
- modded boosters
- modded shields
In themselves fairly simple requirements, yet it is not requirements that are instant to get, it requires a sum om money, for outfitting as well as the fact that you have gotten engineers unlocked accordingly, now again, quite viable, but you are totally forgetting the problem group the ideal targets have none of these things, for one reason or another.
So what you are saying has nothing to do with getting good, nothing, nada. Its all about unlocking and playing certain aspects of the game, that a person might not have done.
Effectively what you are saying, "Get to this point in the game to have a chance to avoid jerks"
But is that reasonable? should we simply accept that if you aren't at x point in game, that griefers are just going to attack you? for their own personal fun? do you not see how insanely negative an impact that has on the game?
But when thats as good as you want to get it is. somtimes when I read the get good posts this runs through my head.
[video=youtube;SGIospD9QRU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGIospD9QRU[/video]
That's not true .. Algo said it himself .. if you play in PG or SOLO, you don't know how to play the game.
As I said, this is what FDEV created, they made engineers meta and if you dont engineer your ship you stand no chance.
So engineered ship vs stock ship? No chance.
This is not the "griefer's" fault, nor the victim's, this is the game. This is content, this is what FDEV want you to do.
Aside from the fact that the attacker can't tell who is engineered or not.
There's a word for people flying in open without G5 or otherwise top level engineering...Victims. Don't be a victim, learn to engineer and git gud, or play in Solo. Complaining about more powerful commanders playing within the rules set down by FD will get you absolutely nowhere.
There's a word for people flying in open without G5 or otherwise top level engineering...Victims. Don't be a victim, learn to engineer and git gud, or play in Solo. Complaining about more powerful commanders playing within the rules set down by FD will get you absolutely nowhere.
Casual player.
The 3rd option is.
Be a casual player. But know that once in a while some onion will be an irritant. Don't complain, just get some coffee.
So you think everyone should grind all their ships, money, rank and engineers to top level before leaving solo, like the PVP'ers do ?.
This isn't true and you know it.
Ozram and I did a test, and I survived my 2 minutes in a stock ship versus an engineered one - and I'm not a PvP'er.
So if I can do it, surely an experienced PvP'er can cope in a stock setup versus an engineered one.
Welcome to Elite Dangerous aka The Grind.
Besides, you dont need to engineer everything like a PvP ship. You need essentials, and only a few rolls on each. For survival its more than enough.
To me, the argument is silly and a fallacy.
It's like saying you can take on an F-35 with a C-130... and if the F-35 wins, it's not the fault of the pilot.
Some planes are absolutely designed for combat... same with ships in ED.
An outfitted Type-7 won't win an engagement vs an outfitted FDL, period. One was designed for hauling cargo, the other for combat.
You might get lucky, sure- but to say it's all equal opportunity is an outright lie.
It's like saying you can take on an F-35 with a C-130... and if the F-35 wins, it's not the fault of the pilot.
Some planes are absolutely designed for combat... same with ships in ED.
An outfitted Type-7 won't win an engagement vs an outfitted FDL, period. One was designed for hauling cargo, the other for combat.
You might get lucky, sure- but to say it's all equal opportunity is an outright lie.
I was in a bad mood this morning. Wait ... that's not right, let me start over.
I'm in a bad mood every morning, but today it did spill onto the forum a bit. Partly because of work related issues, I used the forum to vent and that's not fair to Al and anyone who had to read that. I want to apologize for that. What I wrote was unnecessary and wrong. I was being a pillock.
To make amends I have liked the video in the post. (aka, the cheap cop out)
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PvP yes.
I am talking about a trader/explorer being ganked.
Correct. You dont need to fight an fdl if you are flying a T7.
But you should be able to last 30sec before waking. If you can't last that long, you are not outfitted properly.
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verminstar
Banned
I can see no reason to wanna play open if thats the case...one must grind like a very grindy thing...just to be able to run and hide more effectively without switching mode.
Ah ye I can feel the wave of temptation from here. And whats this nonsense about being a victim? Speak fer yerself perhaps but I prefer a more chilled out game...feeling like a victim is about as far from the truth as it gets. Do you feel like a victim? I dont...i just feel chilled out...ye wanna show us a victim who is chilled out?
Of course its frontiers fault this happened at all because there was no crime and punishment system in open...but its not their fault that open players play like morons and shoot anything that moves. Thats not frontiers fault at all...thats entirely the fault of the moron playing like a moron then wondering why everyone else has the problem and not them. In most western cultures, thats known as delusional...when they constantly attempt to shift blame away from themselves as algo does quite regularly, its borderline narsicistic and absolutely hilarious. Nobody really believes the guy but hes consistant, Ill give him that.
Also...while this thread does indeed complain about open play, many of the other threads here are from salty open players who basically just want mre targets to shoot at. Not once does any of them tell us how being the content will improve our game because they dont care about whether or not we enjoy the game. They just want us there so they can shoot us...thats really all it is delivered with a charm offensive or excuses and half baked ridiculous accusations about how everyone hides like cowards. Thats basically the gist of yer entire comment...and that too will get ye nowhere ^
Fdev also said you can hunt other commanders, so its all good, git gud if you dont want to be a sheep. In nature the stupid slow sheep die first, the strong and fast survive.
Mmmmmm lamb bbq.
The game doesn't have a fraction of the single player functionality previous games had and depends on the multiplayer aspects of the BGS for much of what it does have.
Anything that made it a viable single player game would also make it that much better of a mutliplayer game too.
Balance is just as important in single player, though having a totally offline mode would allow each player tune that balance to taste, without crapping up things for others.
As for the people 'ruining' ED, those are the ones who think they can play a multi-player only game without having to account for the effects of their actions on the broader game, especially those who try to pretend this is a single-player game and freely abuse broken systems to their own ends, justifying it all with 'play it your way'.
So are CGs.
I don't think that's what Algomatic is doing. He's simply pointing out that there are times and places where doing excessively foolish things will make it very difficult to get anything done if one refuses to adapt.
Taking a poorly equipped ship to a CG in Open and then refusing to have basic situational awareness or an appropriate degree of caution are certainly things one is entitled to do. However, doing so also abdicates one's ability to blame one other than one's self if one get their ship shot to pieces in short order. You may as well blame the sun for the heatstroke you'll get from a hike in Death Valley if you choose to wear your three-piece wool suit, and decide you'd rather hydrate yourself with a bottle of Jack than water.
I don't know. I fly in Open exclusively and refuse to block anyone, and I have a great deal of control over who is willing or able to attack my CMDR.
First and foremost, the FSD allows me to be anywhere I care to be in minutes, and I can easily choose to be where others are unlikely to be.
I can also control how my CMDR is percieved by other CMDRs. If I want to look like an easy target, I can fly shieldless trade ship. If I don't want to look like such an easy target, I can fly a faster vessel, one that looks competently equipped, even if it's not, and most people will leave me alone.
Furthermore, I can keep my eyes open, my wits about me, and avoid most attacks before they occur.
Lastly, I can be ready to run in an instant.
It would be exceedingly silly if everyone only went after their equals or betters. Predator-prey dynamics don't work like that and thus neither can a believable setting, where in-game characters should be afraid to lose, and should do their absolute best to minimize risks while in pursuit of their goals.
I don't like having to leave Open, for any reason.
My CMDR has done and will continue to do all his Engineering in Open. Sometimes he's not wholly prepared for a fight, but he's almost always prepared to run, and can certainly get around/survive without engineering.
If you can keep your shield up for 15 seconds, you can usually make it.
Rarely does this mandate engineering.
I can be 'chilled-out' while reading a book where the protagonist is a victim. My character in Elite is not so different...the protagonist of the game I'm playing, directed by my will, but not me, and if he should occasionally suffer a set back, sucks for him, but that's part of the game and the unfolding narrative, and doesn't get in the way of my enjoyment...unless the methods used were out-of-game, and thus in gross defiance of the setting's continuity.
Glad we both see this on the same level.
There is no "balance" when it comes to attacking a hauler with a combat-focus designed ship. The attacker will always have an advantage.
The only option a hauler has is to wake away, hoping their defenses hold long enough to do so.
verminstar
Banned
Unless they running into trouble as opposed to away from it...in which case all the strength and speed in the world wont help them. Also...lamb comes from lambs, sheep supply mutton.
So lets just take that comparison and expand on it somewhat. A car that is used as a weapon to kill...by your logic, its the guys who made the car who is to blame. Gun manufacturers merely make the guns...idiots are the ones who use them to wipeout a bunch of kids in a school...by your logic, its the guys who made the guns who are to blame.
Gotta say I dont think your logic is absolutely water tight...is it? Just cos they say it can be done doesnt mean its their fault someone does it...they merely provide the choices, they dont make them. Players make the choices ergo they are the ones at fault...its really not that complicated unless yer just an idiot who blames everyone else fer your issues. Did FD tell you to do what you do? If they told ye that ye could fly from a 30 storey building and ye jumped and went splat, is it frontiers fault or yours fer being an idiot?
Just one question out of curiosity, why should someone even bother to do so?
As i said before, im quite sure i wouldnt have a problem getting out of such a scenario most of the time (with usual exceptions like pure FSD-range fitted Explorer or just me being drunk/likethenamesays).
I know how to high-wake, my flying skills are not that bad at least and i usually fit appropriate shields with thermalresistance mod and some boosters.
Like you said yourself, shouldnt be a problem to get out of trouble alive, what makes that "thrilling gameplay experience" argument a little bit obsolet i guess.
What brings me to my point: When the "danger" turns out to not be that dangerous at all while fighting back still isnt a option in most cases, whats left then?
As far as i can tell its simply me wasting time to get out of situations i can easily avoid at all by playing in another mode
Didnt say that there are no arguments for playing in Open though, you just seem to ignore them in that "git gudder" fixation you have going on
Edit: Reading Morbads reply above i might got something wrong from the start, should this be the case my apologies, given how i have understood it my points still stand though
@Morbad: Good points and argumentation, even i wouldnt agree with all of it. Def worth some rep! o7
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