Dove Enigma UA bombed, preventing completion of its voyage in time for the man it was named for.

[sak75]

I think the best thing is not to give publicity to who has done it, if it has done to get some notoriety or become famous within the community. If everything is forgotten, it will not have been of any use to you, better remember the commanders who now go to Colonia to help.

As David Bowie said "We can be heroes, just for one day"

 

[lokvette]

...Better still, remember their names (and it's always the usual pathetic suspects) and what they are saying in this occasion, and from now on simply use a stock reply for whatever they write, in this thread or in any future one: "You are a toxic individual and you are not welcome in this community"....

So after reading this bit of what was a informative post, I start to wonder who is the Toxic section of this commuinty as feeding hate with hate makes you as much of an hater as the haters and no good comes of it bar people thinking your no better than the people your trying to condone.

Also I belive its down to FD and its CMs to decied who is and who is not welcome here, a self policeing community is never a good thing all be it for a computer game.

This forum has a ignore function for a reason, or as any normal self thinking person might do, just skip posts from people you dont want to read, its not hard not to take offence from things if you dont read them in the first place. The amount of people I could have on my ignore list is huge, but you know what its the internet and I like to think Im better than that.

 

[Jex =TE=]

anyone got an update please? Are MA's still required there? I'm almost at Maia and willing to make the trip if needed!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

In my experience, online "trolls" do what they do because it gives them a sense of empowerment that they don't have offline.

Oftentimes, they are themselves victims of abuse for whom trolling offers an emotional outlet. As the saying goes, misery loves company, and happy, well-adjusted people don't tend to be trolls.

What trolls ultimately seek is control over the behavior of others, and they enjoy nothing more than watching people dance to their antics like puppets on strings. The stronger the response, the greater the feeling of control.

Reactions give them relevance and constitute the payoff for their efforts. Hence the inadvisability of rewarding them with histrionics.

Which, of course, is the last thing anyone wants to hear when they're in the middle of a righteous crusade, so they tend to reject such advice and sink ever deeper into a self-feeding spiral of indignation, insularity and denial.

That, in turn, reinforces the power of trolling, and thus the symbiotic circle becomes complete.

There's another side to this.

For the advice to work, it would take a concerted effort of the entire community to behave in a certain way. The advice to not give attention to those who seek it through questionable means because of their lack of decency might be sound, but it's nearly impossible in practice. Especially on the internet on a discussion board which is geared towards discussing these things. A boycott on a topic will never work.

In other words, it's fruit hanging so low it can be found in a ditch. And that makes sense. We're not talking about evil geniuses here. We're talking about people who cut with the blunt edge of the knife, people who gaze at you with confusion when you ask them to rub 2 braincells together. They found a method that takes no intelligence, creativity or a single unique thought of their own, which has a high success percentage.

 

[Theodrid]

anyone got an update please? Are MA's still required there? I'm almost at Maia and willing to make the trip if needed!

Latest is the link in post 871 Jex - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/404254-Dove-Enigma-and-the-Enigma-Expedition

 

[Gin RideIntoTheSun]

Does UA bombing require a Black Market?

Seems to me that if Dove Enigma's Black Market were to experience 'issues' over the next couple of weeks, that's the major problem solved.

Well, this debate is so strong that I'm sure Dove Enigma Station's Security Services have now heard about that black market in their station.
Probably they will shut it down.
(But we really don't need them to do this. Our wonderful community is saving the station. We are more and much stronger than griefers).

 

[TheSynopticVision]

So after reading this bit of what was a informative post, I start to wonder who is the Toxic section of this commuinty as feeding hate with hate makes you as much of an hater as the haters and no good comes of it bar people thinking your no better than the people your trying to condone.

Also I belive its down to FD and its CMs to decied who is and who is not welcome here, a self policeing community is never a good thing all be it for a computer game.

This forum has a ignore function for a reason, or as any normal self thinking person might do, just skip posts from people you dont want to read, its not hard not to take offence from things if you dont read them in the first place. The amount of people I could have on my ignore list is huge, but you know what its the internet and I like to think Im better than that.

I agree that the ignore function is a completely valid alternative. But I disagree that self-policing is never a good thing. FDev is a for-profit company. Short of people breaking their ToC rules, they cannot and will not (as this example clearly shows) get out there and openly condemn people on "moral grounds", for that means -- like it or not -- alienating paying customers.

I believe that it is indeed our job to marginalise people who are quite clearly toxic individuals (I havent spoken of "hate" nor threats, nor insults -- simply politely reminding them that they're not welcome because of a well-documented track record of toxic/trolling interventions). As I said above, this is not a matter of diverging opinions. It's not "I think Smeaton runs are ok" vs "they should be nerfed". It goes well beyond that.

 

[Majic-12]

There's another side to this.

For the advice to work, it would take a concerted effort of the entire community to behave in a certain way. The advice to not give attention to those who seek it through questionable means because of their lack of decency might be sound, but it's nearly impossible in practice. Especially on the internet on a discussion board which is geared towards discussing these things. A boycott on a topic will never work.

In other words, it's fruit hanging so low it can be found in a ditch. And that makes sense. We're not talking about evil geniuses here. We're talking about people who cut with the blunt edge of the knife, people who gaze at you with confusion when you ask them to rub 2 braincells together. They found a method that takes no intelligence, creativity or a single unique thought of their own, which has a high success percentage.

Just so. The reason trolling is so common is because it works. If it didn't, it would be pointless.

I think we can both appreciate the apparent futility of counseling against falling prey to it, as doing so most certainly won't end it. But I'm not convinced that such efforts are truly in vain.

As the Internet matures and we as a species become more accustomed to the social compression global instantaneous communication affords, I think we can collectively mature along with it.

Knowledge is power, and shared freely, our power grows. Even if total success is not assured, partial success is better than no success at all.

The most distant of goals are often the most worthy, and though one pebble does not a mountain make, with enough hands placing them, a mountain may form.

Or something like that.

Insert something profound here.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Latest is the link in post 871 Jex - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/404254-Dove-Enigma-and-the-Enigma-Expedition

Thanks!

 

[Smecca is BMFE]

Armchair psychology to the max here. Read somewhere in here that one of you alerted the MEDIA to strong arm Frontier into perma bans for UA bombers?

Get a life. Nobody cares about your definition of "morality" in a video game

 

[Theodrid]

Armchair psychology to the max here. Read somewhere in here that one of you alerted the MEDIA to strong arm Frontier into perma bans for UA bombers?

Get a life. Nobody cares about your definition of "morality" in a video game

'Get a life' - really? - you don't think a coordinated cheat attack on a target such as this is more worthy of requiring a life than being urinated off about it? - and yes a video game, but this particular incident is very much about RL too.

 

[Majic-12]

Armchair psychology to the max here. Read somewhere in here that one of you alerted the MEDIA to strong arm Frontier into perma bans for UA bombers?

Get a life. Nobody cares about your definition of "morality" in a video game

If no one cared, this thread would be a LOT shorter.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Armchair psychology to the max here. Read somewhere in here that one of you alerted the MEDIA to strong arm Frontier into perma bans for UA bombers?

Get a life. Nobody cares about your definition of "morality" in a video game

As abhorant as it is IF they didn't cheat I don't think FD should or will issue bans. IF they did however then that is different and imo they should be banned. That is not to say I think they will be. FD are lenient bordering on soft with exploiters
I shall ignore the rest of your post.

 

[Smecca is BMFE]

Yes. Really. Who cares. A real life person had something added in game on their behalf. As such it is subject to the mechanics of the game. Thinking that certain parts of the game should be immune to any sort of negative actions is the equivalent to a safe space. You're most likely adults. Instead of whining to daddy to make the bad man go away, grow some thick skin and solve the problem. On that note, GOOD JOB TO EVERYONE WHO DELIVERED MA's. The CMDR in question should feel honored by this community.

I must reiterate. Nobody gives a crap about what you think is moral or immoral. You're no one's parent or boss or judge here, and you don't get to decide how people act or what punishments they should receive for being a meanie face.

The only crime here is hurt feelings. Are you 6? No. You're not. So deliver some GD MAs and go find the next thing to be outraged about.

 

[Theodrid]

Yes. Really. Who cares. A real life person had something added in game on their behalf. As such it is subject to the mechanics of the game. Thinking that certain parts of the game should be immune to any sort of negative actions is the equivalent to a safe space. You're most likely adults. Instead of whining to daddy to make the bad man go away, grow some thick skin and solve the problem. On that note, GOOD JOB TO EVERYONE WHO DELIVERED MA's. The CMDR in question should feel honored by this community.

I must reiterate. Nobody gives a crap about what you think is moral or immoral. You're no one's parent or boss or judge here, and you don't get to decide how people act or what punishments they should receive for being a meanie face.

The only crime here is hurt feelings. Are you 6? No. You're not. So deliver some GD MAs and go find the next thing to be outraged about.

The fact that, in terms of this thread at least, you are in a tiny minority here should speak volumes to you, believe it or not some of us don't abuse internet anonymity, we don't turn our moral compass' off simply because we are here either. 'Are you 6' you say? - nah, you see six year olds lack moral judgement, empathy and sympathy, adults don't, so ask yourself this, who is the child or children here again?

 

[Lateralus]

Who's more toxic? Those UA bombing a megaship that is subject to the same game rules as every other megaship/station/outpost.. or those screaming for bans, special treatment or even witch-hunts/doxxing? It's pretty clear to me.

Maybe if this whole thing was to honour someone with a terminal condition, Fdev should have just used one of the non-landable megaship assets and would therefore not be subject to potential player-interference.

 

[Smecca is BMFE]

The fact that, in terms of this thread at least, you are in a tiny minority here should speak volumes to you, believe it or not some of us don't abuse internet anonymity, we don't turn our moral compass' off simply because we are here either. 'Are you 6' you say? - nah, you see six year olds lack moral judgement, empathy and sympathy, adults don't, so ask yourself this, who is the child or children here?

Lol. Ok. I'm in the minority, so I must be wrong. I wonder how any civil rights movement ever would feel about that sentiment. If you're asking Frontier to punish behavior simply because it makes you feel bad, you're acting like a child.

Exploits are, of course, a different story. And should be handled appropriately. But what's the difference? A little bit of extra time for the UA bombers to fill the holds? They went all the way to Colonia to pull this off. A few more hours of UA gathering is nothing.

 

[Troy_McClure]

Do you think it should be an instant lifetime ban (even if it is for like 2 weeks) to tell people they should kill themself....

Did you really just say that?

 

[Vardaugas]

The same old arguments by the same kind of people over the same kind of incidents, the almost traditional sing and dance being done all over and over again in circles for at least years, if not more than a decade, maybe even decades.

Not sure if sad or hilarious.

 

[Majic-12]

Who's more toxic? Those UA bombing a megaship that is subject to the same game rules as every other megaship/station/outpost.. or those screaming for bans, special treatment or even witch-hunts/doxxing? It's pretty clear to me.

Maybe if this whole thing was to honour someone with a terminal condition, Fdev should have just used one of the non-landable megaship assets and would therefore not be subject to potential player-interference.

Though it may not be explicitly advertised, I suspect suitable countermeasures will be taken going forward.