I love the game but FD ignoring 95% of folks and caving to 1% makes me want to walk away.

[Lee Archer]

Could this be a solution that doesn’t impinge on non explorers, has few mechanics, allows us to work together making more novel gameplay?
Critique invited, not gainsay,
#who let the Happy Dogs out?

As a way to Enhance and Tweak exploration in the Beyond update- a cheap and easy, player driven, devoloper hands off way would be an exploration only increase in jump distance cloaked in the LORE based Guise of a “new” module, expanding human Galactic Recon and supply, post Thargoids.

New Module: Exploration FSD- Draws additonal power from and hence disables Weapons “slots”
A change that’s easy on the Game Engine and is in no way of interest to anyone but explorers
Who are the Stellar Forges greatest Devotees.
Yes it’s a bit corny but a starting point. Or go back to the “debate”.
Crickets ; )



#Stellar Forge Forever
#Exploration is Freedom

 

[WR3ND]

Maybe if people actually read they'd get it.
I'm saying that the Vulture has the almost ideal internals for a small explorer.
The fuel tank is the obvious issue that stops it being one.

Quite right and likewise I'm not arguing that the Vulture is the most capable basic exploration ship in the game either, as it isn't relevant to this thread.

I'd say the Cobra Mk. III makes close to the ideal basic exploration ship, given the current exploration mechanics in the game.

Give it a couple more internals, a higher class fuel scoop, and a slightly better cockpit view, shield, and jump range and it'd be nearly ideal overall.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Could this be a solution that doesn’t impinge on non explorers, has few mechanics, allows us to work together making more novel gameplay?
Critique invited, not gainsay,
#who let the Happy Dogs out?

As a way to Enhance and Tweak exploration in the Beyond update- a cheap and easy, player driven, devoloper hands off way would be an exploration only increase in jump distance cloaked in the LORE based Guise of a “new” module, expanding human Galactic Recon and supply, post Thargoids.

New Module: Exploration FSD- Draws power from and hence disables Weapons “slots”
A change that’s easy on the Game Engine and is in no way of interest to anyone but explorers
Who are the Stellar Forges greatest Devotees.

#Stellar Forge Forever
#Exploration is Freedom

A lot of explorers are quite happy with range as it is, because ya know, scale.

We'd maybe like more ship options though.

 

[Mengy]

Arguing semantics isn't the same thing as making a relevant point. The DbE is an unfortunately limited ship in terms of exploration potential and capability. It of course does have a niche role thanks to its jump range. That doesn't mean it's a good exploration ship in general. If you like it, good for you. That doesn't make your point accurate nor relevant.

The relevant point it this: some explorers don't value jump range, but many do. It all depends on HOW you like to explore. Some are content to putter around dense star regions where a stock Sidewinder would suffice, while others love it out along the fringes where you need to manually plot jumps and guzzle jumponium like whiskey. For one style a ship like the Vulture would be fine, while for the other style it would fail miserably. To some explorers jump range is of paramount importance, and while some people might not like that, it does not change the reality of the situation. Semantics has nothing to do with this, it's simply a matter of preference.


It's also a matter of statistics though, and all you need do is look at the ship choice breakdowns of every exploration expedition where the ship choices are not limited by theme to see the fact of the matter: jump range matters to a great many explorers.

 

[WR3ND]

The relevant point it this: some explorers don't value jump range, but many do. ...

Yes, and the issues with the DbE aren't its jump range. So, we're in agreement, apparently.

Cheers, Mengy.

...

Sorry to say mate, but if you're arguing that the DbE makes for an all around ideal, proficient, and capable exploration ship, you're subjectively mistaken.

Keep in mind that I'm not propping up the Vulture as the most cable exploration ship in the game either, though I prefer it for my specific play style for valid reasons, in my opinion. Essentially, that's a little off topic here.

 

[Lee Archer]

A lot of explorers are quite happy with range as it is, because ya know, scale.

We'd maybe like more ship options though.

Range is for Crossing voids above the galactic plane, bridging spiral arms. The reduction in the number of jumps is much much more affected by the use of the Neutron highway and FSD enhancing jumponiums.
That’s just the numbers, and has really been well documented by players spread sheets, modeling ad infinititum.
Not trying to be argumentative, I’ve been convinced by player posts when I first joined the forum that on exploration range trips it is the difference 5-20 minutes whereas getting stuck in a void- that’s a real problem if the last respawn station is 3 hours back. If you’re playing in 1 hour chunks, not the entire Colonia trip of course.

To just go out to untraveled regions that don’t have stations seems to be of interest, 1.would this help that, 2.would it reduce the sense of scale compared to the much larger effect of Neutron/ Jumponium?
Of course I was only thinking of Anaconda jump distances, parity so it’s not a one ship, obvious choice as
is borne out by the Exploration ship choice statistics for large Expeditions, greatly favouring stripped down skeletal ‘Condas.

Yes I could be wrong, swhy I’m asking really, not demanding.
But after the google and players research numbers. . .
it is the Neutron Highway and Jumponium effect that is significant.
But!

I like ships, so those mechanics don’t feel as good as having a “ship that conquers the stars”, I know it amounts to the same thing, with the new Neutron mapping, and perhaps Material traders, more spreadsheets pretrip prep, less spontaneity.
But
in this case I’m a GRandfather, wishing the good ol’ “what the old girl can do”, ship quite a ship, where it’s all about the ship
not the proximity of Mats traders etc
Now this is a case where I may be the problem and you can legitimately say, “move on”, “then don’t Play”, “Git gud” cause really it’s just my Sci Fi preference.
But isn’t everything.
Thanks.
Post Script: would explorers spreading out across the galaxy bring down the game engine somehow?

#station free exploration

 

[Schmack]

More like 75K, in-game.

There's no need for greater jump distances in the game. Going across the galaxy or the like is entirely optional gameplay, and having it take a while makes it a more meaningful and noteworthy accomplishment. If Colonia were right next to the bubble, it wouldn't be significant for any reason really at all.

Except it's part of the game we all paid for. What's the point of buying a game where 90% or more of the space is never visited because only a retired or unemployed hermit has that kind of free time?

Colonia is right next to the bubble. It just takes forever to get there. Why not decrease jump range to 5LY so everything seems so far away? Then we'd not worry about people going to Ceos.

Getting across the bubble takes like 10 to 15 minutes in a fully combat loaded Vulture without using jumponium nor neutron star boosts or the like and maybe like 20 to 30 minutes to get to the Pleiades. Jump range is sufficient as is.

For you, which is why the option to have a lower jump range is available. Did you outfit with the largest FSD you could find? Did you engineer it for longer jumps?

Just make the entire game how you want travel to remain: Hauling commodities takes 6 real hours even between two close systems because, immersion.

 

[WR3ND]

Range is for Crossing voids above the galactic plane, bridging spiral arms. ...

Yeah, having a sufficient jump range of about 20+ LY is definitely a nice thing to have to reach 99.99+ percent of the galaxy. Having more than that for niche roles is nice to have too, of course.

Spoiler

Ever been here?

Racing across the galaxy is generally irrelevant in terms of exploration proficiency though. Many people like it regardless because they don't like exploration in the game and want to avoid the scale of the galaxy when it's convenient for them to do so. I think if we're all honest with ourselves and each other, we can admit that that isn't really exploration.

It's OK, I understand exploration in its current implementation in the game is rather limited. Let's address the issues here instead of skirting around them and pretending to be uber gamers with our maxed out Engineered jump ranges, Anacondas, and the like. This isn't a race to the end. There is no end. There are 400+ billion stars out there. Let's have them count for something!

 

[Schmack]

Maybe if people actually read they'd get it.
I'm saying that the Vulture has the almost ideal internals for a small explorer.
The fuel tank is the obvious issue that stops it being one.

The terms "small" and "explorer" seem contradictory. You're travelling far out into the void. You want to be stuck in a sardine can or a hotel suite?

Yeah, having a sufficient jump range of about 20+ LY is definitely a nice thing to have to reach 99.99+ percent of the galaxy. Having more than that for niche roles is nice to have too, of course.

Spoiler

https://i.imgur.com/taJEwvZ.jpg

Racing across the galaxy is generally irrelevant in terms of exploration proficiency though. Many people like it regardless because they don't like exploration in the game and want to avoid the scale of the galaxy when it's convenient for them to do so. I think if we're all honest with ourselves and each other, we can admit that that isn't really exploration.

It's OK, I understand exploration in its current implementation in the game is rather limited. Let's address the issues here instead of skirting around them and pretending to be uber gamers with our maxed out Engineered jump ranges, Anacondas, and the like. This isn't a race to the end. There is no end. There are 400+ billion stars out there. Let's have them count for something!

No, we need to see the end of life of the game with 99% of the galaxy untouched. That will reduce galaxy warming.

 

[WR3ND]

The terms "small" and "explorer" seem contradictory. You're travelling far out into the void. You want to be stuck in a sardine can or a hotel suite?



No, we need to see the end of life of the game with 99% of the galaxy untouched. That will reduce galaxy warming.

I don't think you know what 400 billion means nor its gameplay significance. Well, maybe this isn't the game for you if you just want to reach wherever for no reason whatsoever other than just to reach it. Talk about meaningless. What a waste of imagination and game potential.

 

[Mengy]

Sorry to say mate, but if you're arguing that the DbE makes for an all around ideal, proficient, and capable exploration ship, you're subjectively mistaken..

Woah, hey now, I never claimed that the DBX is an ideal explorer by any means! It has the slowest fuel scoop rate in the entire game, that alone makes it a very flawed ship. It does however have the second best jump range in the game too, hence why I fly one. But I'd never claim it to be ideal, not by a long shot!

 

[jasonbirder]

What's the point of buying a game where 90% or more of the space is never visited

Presumably better than having a game in which say 50% of the stars have already been visited...and the "unexplored ones" are far-off the beaten track...so ruining the Exploration aspect for anyone that didn't pick up the game in its early days...

 

[WR3ND]

Woah, hey now, I never claimed that the DBX is an ideal explorer by any means! It has the slowest fuel scoop rate in the entire game, that alone makes it a very flawed ship. It does however have the second best jump range in the game too, hence why I fly one. But I'd never claim it to be ideal, not by a long shot!

Just so, and because of its fuel scoop potential primarily, it is a bit of a thorn in my side of lost potential, a grain of salt in my wound of exploration, if you will.

To be fair though, the DbS is the ship I've used more and if I recall correctly its fuel scooping potential is even worse than the DbE. For me, it was painful to use on my trip to Sgr A back in 3301. I earned that hot mess like nobody's business, if I'm permitted to say so here, but, funny enough, I enjoy exploration, and we managed well enough in spite of ourselves.

Spoiler

There are many nebulae in the game; this one is mine.

For the sake of transparency, I must admit that I've had a DbE for its jump range potential in recent times, and with the Engineer changes coming up, 60+ LY jump range is nice to have for some niche exploration related roles.

 

[WR3ND]

...

For you, which is why the option to have a lower jump range is available. Did you outfit with the largest FSD you could find? Did you engineer it for longer jumps?

...

Yes, 15 minutes to cross all of the main systems in human colonized space seems sufficient, outliers not withstanding. Current standard exploration jump range I'm working with in my Vulture is 19.51 LY.

 

[JLS1981]

Let's look at that from a different perspective: You play a military sim where you have to walk across Europe. You can do it in a year if you're dedicated. Why not take a vehicle or a plane? Because that makes Europe feel so much smaller. You aren't forced to walk across Europe, you can just piddle around in one area and never see the rest of the game. It's your choice, but us "explorers" sack up and head out and "I haven't been back to the starter village in a year, I have no idea what's going on there... I am an explorer".

That's great if your goal in the game is to spend as much time as possible crawling through it. Some of us want to see technology unfold in our lifetimes else we'd not be playing a game where we pretend we are 3K years into the future doing FTL travel by "bending space".

You're not actually traversing the galaxy. You're just getting to another point in the game that you can revisit. Problem is you'll need to sink the same amount of time to get there, every time because progress = power creep and that's bad.

I traveled to Colonia so I paid my "dues". If I were to go back, I'd have to do the same jumping session again. Am I being an explorer because it takes me that long to get to another populated system? Does it make space feel larger? No. Long boot up times don't make my PC feel larger either.

From my perspective, these aren't long travel times. You can get to Colonia in just hours... 20k LY..

We do have different perspective, it's just that I happen to see the travel time across such a vast distance as MORE than reasonable when considering what that number really means... And, I have some patience.

I don't need everything right now. I enjoy what's happening right now, and when the next thing comes along I'll enjoy that.

As a side note, Europe would NOT feel small in a car... Maybe if it were Europe on the scale of a GTA map.. or my car was modded to instantly travel between cities?

All I'm saying is, we see distance and travel times very differently.

 

[Oopsie Daisy]

snip...

attaining Admiral.

Meeting my rank goal had me on Cloud 9 and laid back, finally able to just enjoy the wonderful game

...snip

That makes me sad; not being able to fully enjoy the game until after he maxed a rank (or ship, or whatever).

 

[Hairy Polo]

There are hundreds of threads from folks wanting to max out their jump range, and they usually end up with a Coriolis link showing zero cabins, cargo holds, scanners, etc, just an empty hull to get the jump range they want, but now they cannot use the ship for anything productive.

Then I find FS was giving the Type 7 a 61 Ly jump range, what a great thing, almost eveyone would have bought one (I made my first real cr in a Type 7) this excited me more than attaining Admiral.

Meeting my rank goal had me on Cloud 9 and laid back, finally able to just enjoy the wonderful game, nothing can ever discourage me now I thought, then this.

I was elated at the thought of a Type 7 with a 61Ly JR.

But two comments later there was a link for FD, and because those with exploror ships were crying they nerfed the long JR plans because "It would not be fair for it to have a higher JR then the X ships."

I went from cloud 9 and having joy and pride in the game to almost having a deep hatred for it instantly, I love the game, but hate, HATE, the fact that a few babies can cry, and the rest of the community suffers for these cry babies.

Thanks for nothing.

OP, are you serious? 61ly jump range for a trade ship is unbalanced. Its not designed for exploration, but for hauling cargo.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

From my perspective, these aren't long travel times. You can get to Colonia in just hours... 20k LY..

We do have different perspective, it's just that I happen to see the travel time across such a vast distance as MORE than reasonable when considering what that number really means... And, I have some patience.

I don't need everything right now. I enjoy what's happening right now, and when the next thing comes along I'll enjoy that.

As a side note, Europe would NOT feel small in a car... Maybe if it were Europe on the scale of a GTA map.. or my car was modded to instantly travel between cities?

All I'm saying is, we see distance and travel times very differently.

Try walking from Omaha Beach to the Elbe River. That's what my uncles did. No fun.

 

[Jack Schitt]

Except it's part of the game we all paid for. What's the point of buying a game where 90% or more of the space is never visited because only a retired or unemployed hermit has that kind of free time?

That's what we all did, though. That is the game we bought. (Or, for those who don't see exploration as gameplay in and of itself, it's part of the backdrop to the game we bought).

It doesn't matter how many unemployed hermits you throw at this game, most of the galaxy is still never going to be visited. Even if you could manually select any star in the galaxy and jump to it instantaneously, and every player started doing that tomorrow, I reckon the majority of systems would still be untouched by the time the servers go dark in a few years. There are 400 billion systems. Think about that. Ignoring the fraction that's already been explored, even with a billion players each would have to select an average of 400 systems that nobody else had previously selected. Even without any restrictions imposed by gameplay mechanics, the odds against it are staggering.

No, we need to see the end of life of the game with 99% of the galaxy untouched. That will reduce galaxy warming.

Which is basically what's going to happen, give or take a few percent. Jump range adjustments won't really have much effect on the end state of the galaxy because of the raw numbers, but they have the potential to make the whole thing seem smaller. Not smaller as in "not as much stuff to see" but smaller as in "now I'm only one months's game time from 'home', rather than two months'." And that's important to some players. Unless or until exploration gets some more interactive elements, feeling that sense of isolation can be one of the most visceral elements of long-distance travel if the illusion works for you. The longer the jump ranges we're given, the less relevance that illusion has.

 

[IVAN__V]

A trip to the core and beyond should not be a like going to the corner shop, so yes, trivializing travel does impact my enjoyment.

And who says you have to use the infinite jump ? Don't like it then stay away.... But don't tell the other 95 % of gamers what and how to play.

Like another "one of you people" was crying "none of my friends wanna pay ED not even if i give them trial accounts"
LOL And you wonder why ? Cause all the fun is being sucked out of it.
It's a game, it HAS to be fun... Not a stupid loading screen game.
Maybe the game should have 2 settings: fun and boring .. In fun, aka arcade mode you get nice jumps, nice mods, etc and in the "boring x mode you can have all the knuckle dragging people stare at the load screen. In fact i think Fdevs should release a new season just for these boring 5%ers called "load screen season".SMH

Edit: And btw since you're so adamant that you've achieved nirvana by getting to the core in a sidewinde, you should do it again but without FSD, and don't come back to post until you've done it... At 223m/s it might just about give us fun loving people a bit of time to have actual fun... Without you 5% fun killers