I love the game but FD ignoring 95% of folks and caving to 1% makes me want to walk away.

[Brrokk]

...
The Anaconda is a multirole which excels at everything due to it being designed to do so by Frontier. The only thing which makes it the most popular exploration vessel is that it also has the best jump range in the entire game because of its magical hull mass. However, it also has great cargo capacity and is an awesome combat ship sporting a wide array of hardpoints, and it makes for a better passenger ship than the Beluga Liner. It is not designed for exploration, it just happens to be good at it.

The Asp Explorer is the second most popular exploration ship because it has the third best jump range in the game, but it also has the best view out the window too. However, it’s also a very good combat ship and makes for arguably the best smuggling ship in the game. Still, the Asp X is probably the only ship in the game which even comes close to being “designed” for exploration, but it’s really just a multirole which excels at exploration too, like the Anaconda only less so.

...

The only two ships in the game with the word “Explorer” in their names are actually multirole ships, and neither is more capable than the king of multirole ships, the Anaconda.

There really aren’t any ships in the game designed solely from the ground up to be specialized for exploration. There are pure combat ships, there are pure trading ships, but there just aren’t pure exploration ships. I wish this was different, that Frontier had designed some ships to truly excel at all three of the core aspects of the game, not just two. Both the Asp X and DBX should jump farther than the Anaconda, they just should even if they have to give up hardpoints to do so, and the fact that neither does is pretty terrible.

Let's remember that although the Anaconda can have the best jump range and also huge cargo capacity and many hardpoints, it can't have all those things at the same time. It's only "multirole" in the sense that there are multiple roles you can build it for. I have two Anacondas, for long-range trade and combat, and there's no way to use either of them in the other role. I don't really see that as a problem; I enjoy the tradeoffs of defining a role and then building a ship for it. If there was a specialist ship for every role that would be less interesting IMO.

But... buff the Asp X!

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Its database storage that is the issue i presume. It may never happen.

So many players, so many worlds.

but as Harley quinn says, we all have hundreds of gb of storage on our machines, let those hold the persistant POIs... so what if it only shows up for us, or those who happen to join our instance bubble, that is a million times better than what we have now.

and as for FD potentially not trusting our machines due to people cheating/exploiting.... i would say dont punish the masses for the crimes of the few. let people cheat and exploit if they must,... and if they get caught then account wipe and ban to hellmode (special mode which is single player and they do not get to affect the BGS)

If you find it while in a ring system, they're persistent, so you can theoretically come back for it later in your T7.

Unless you originally found it near a RES or one of the rare ring-embedded stations to give a stable reference point, of course, actually practically finding the same spot in the rotating ring system as before is left as an exercise for the reader, since it's only theoretically possible.

indeed.. but this does make me hold out hope. the fact that it is persistant, and replicable gives me hope because maybe 1 day we can tag asteroids and add they as waypoints on our map. Dont get me wrong, it is not the magic fix for all the lack of persistence but it would be a ray of hope imo .

 

[Para Handy]

You called her “pathetic “.
..............

I think you misunderstand, what I was referring to was the fact that the original post / the thread was made in the Elite Support sub-forum - I just felt that making a "whining" complaint in that forum was a pathetic choice. I could have used a different word but that is the one that felt most apt at the time when I found it nestling in with posts from people asking for assistance with the game.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

It's ironic that the ship with the internals that are closest to the ideal for a small explorer is the Vulture.

https://eddp.co/u/xhf8rEHY

Make that Restricted 5 an unrestricted 4.
Bump the FSD from 4 to 5.
Reduce the PD to 3.
Change the Hardpoints from Large to Medium.
Bump the Fuel Tank from 3 to 4.
PP, Thrusters, and Sensors could come down 1 each.

A ship of that size with FSD5 would probably have a range to rival a stripped down Anaconda.

 

[Mengy]

It's ironic that the ship with the internals that are closest to the ideal for a small explorer is the Vulture.

https://eddp.co/u/xhf8rEHY

Make that Restricted 5 an unrestricted 4.
Bump the FSD from 4 to 5.
Reduce the PD to 3.
Change the Hardpoints from Large to Medium.
Bump the Fuel Tank from 3 to 4.
PP, Thrusters, and Sensors could come down 1 each.

A ship of that size with FSD5 would probably have a range to rival a stripped down Anaconda.

It would be far easier to just do a slight balance pass on the Asp X and DBX.


I've actually done the math on this. For example, if you drop the Asp X hull from 280T to 250T it would have a jump range comparable to the Anaconda with both ships in similar lightweight exploration trim and engineering. With the DBX if you just drop it's hull from 260T to 245T then it too would jump almost exactly like the Anaconda and the above Asp X. Now, bump up one C4 slot to a C5 on the DBX to allow a decent fuel scoop (knock down other internal sizes if you have to!) and viola you now have three very effective yet similar in range exploration ships, plus a logical progression in ship design. The DBX would be the cheapest but still have the slowest scoop of the bunch and the least internals, the Asp X would be a bit more expensive but have a faster scoop with better internals, and the Anaconda would possess the fastest scoop with the best internals but also cost the most. BUT, all three would have similar jump range capability and would be equally viable for exploration.


Just two minor hull mass reductions could greatly improve exploration ship choices. It wouldn't take much to level the field for explorers, other ships have recieved far more changes in balance passes than this.

 

[PanTast]

Mengy: I like your suggestions very much. I guess that the process of ship design was done by someone who had no experience in exploration (how could he because they were designed before the game was released). I think it would be clever to tweak almost all the ships basing on the experience of the players. Maybe FD should consult some players with certain profiles on this topic. I am thinking about PvP'ers, Roleplayers, Explorers and Trader / Missionrunners. Each of them has a certain point of view and I am sure that they could provide some help in tweaking the ships.

o7

 

[Schmack]

i never got the fascination with limited jump range. The galaxy is what, 30K+ LY across?

We should be able to get where we want to be much faster, because for most of us the enjoyment of the game isn't the wait time in supercruise or hyperspace. I get the role playing aspect of "it took me 3 days to get to point B" and the fact that it's a shared "sandbox", so any change will affect your game and mine. What I don't get is how it affects your game negatively if I can jump to point B without needing 3 days to do so.

Is it really a problem if it takes someone 3 hours to get to Colonia instead of 6 hours? What other video game would you play where you have to spend 6 hours doing repetitive cut scenes just to get to an instance?

I'm sure the jump range won't be buffed by much, so it's a moot point, but I guarantee you that those who claim to think jump range is too great already have engineered FSDs for higher jump range, and will use "balance" as an excuse.

If you want shorter jumps, the galaxy map allows for it. Just use the economical route. Problem solved. Now it can take you 5 months to get there. Lucky you.

It seems like the lower jump rangers basically find the grind to be like a rite of passage, a security lock so that only the grinders (i.e. dedicated) will get where they are and keep the riff raff out.

 

[Lee Archer]

All of that is in the easy reach of explorers as we play today. Implying that it isn't is just beyond the pale. Sure more ships for your interests is fun. I'm excited for the aChief, I get it. But, the-sky-is-falling because FD had to readjust? It's reaching compulsive here, everything that happens gets turned into a gripe from the explorer types. Some kind of slight. I don't get it. The T-7 remains a mid-ranged trade ship, and doesn't become the holy grail for explorers. It just wasn't meant to be.

What’s is the issue here?
Why oppose any additional ships, exploration or otherwise.

We’re back to philosophy, some resist change intuitively.
For others Novelty is crucial, emergent gameplay feeds on that.
EVen the addition of SOS beacons from Megaships adds Novelty and great chances for player determined gameplay and hence Novelty.
I put a lot of thought and play time into a few simulations, er, ‘games’. This is one of them; much, much more than most players and after hitting a wall in Engineering, more of the same won’t do.
So the forum influence peddling and talking points.

This isn’t a religion for me, it’s a VR platform, video creation platform, one of two “flight” based, full fledged “underdog” sims that isn’t Russian sourced, I have them all! A novelty, a “boutique” rarity I support also because of the scientifically focused Stellar Forge and VR. In so many ways this is a niche game that has exploded in popularity and shouldn’t be allowed to retreat, dissipate.

It can be more while relying on the current game engine and netcode.
Like a screenplay that has hero with obstacles but no real conflict, it just takes a few tweaks, a few.


I support their game Service, games as service, evolving, updating, creating additional value and leveraging players previous play time investment. Novelty has to be maintained, it’s the future of gaming.

I will not support anything that devalues your time investment.
I was shocked at the idea of downgrading modules, no?
But I won’t be a Grandfather if changes move the game to Novel places.
-consistent, and a bit more philosophically flexible.


Some initial things to do with each post read here:
1 Where do I concur
2.Where am I wrong
3.What is gainsay or belief, philosophic, rigid positions...
4.What does the Game engine support in the 6-10 month time frame.
5. Avoid “I” and “You” in replies where possible
6. Do not label forum members, point our appropriate actions, no name calling. . .

To be competitive FDev has created a players forum and players are
using talking points and politesse to influence their development.
This conversation is exactly what is supposed to be occurring.
Is that not clear?

#dog with a bone
#resist the Grandfathers

 

[Schmack]

Personally I think FDev has been pretty generous with jump range and the ship capabilities in Elite... considering that in reality, the longest manned "jump" to date was over 60 hours long LOL

In Elite you can cross the galaxy before your next birthday comes around. Like I said, pretty generous of FDev considering the scale and distance that implies. I don't think there's a problem of jump range in the game, but rather a problem of pilot patience.

Let's look at that from a different perspective: You play a military sim where you have to walk across Europe. You can do it in a year if you're dedicated. Why not take a vehicle or a plane? Because that makes Europe feel so much smaller. You aren't forced to walk across Europe, you can just piddle around in one area and never see the rest of the game. It's your choice, but us "explorers" sack up and head out and "I haven't been back to the starter village in a year, I have no idea what's going on there... I am an explorer".

That's great if your goal in the game is to spend as much time as possible crawling through it. Some of us want to see technology unfold in our lifetimes else we'd not be playing a game where we pretend we are 3K years into the future doing FTL travel by "bending space".

You're not actually traversing the galaxy. You're just getting to another point in the game that you can revisit. Problem is you'll need to sink the same amount of time to get there, every time because progress = power creep and that's bad.

I traveled to Colonia so I paid my "dues". If I were to go back, I'd have to do the same jumping session again. Am I being an explorer because it takes me that long to get to another populated system? Does it make space feel larger? No. Long boot up times don't make my PC feel larger either.

 

[Lee Archer]

I think you misunderstand, what I was referring to was the fact that the original post / the thread was made in the Elite Support sub-forum - I just felt that making a "whining" complaint in that forum was a pathetic choice. I could have used a different word but that is the one that felt most apt at the time when I found it nestling in with posts from people asking for assistance with the game.

It’s totally appropriate to disagree here in writing no less, so ThankYou.

Duplicitous not pathetic, ah, but That’s still name calling...
Better to point out the appropriate course of action instead of labelling.
That will probably get compliance, however reluctant initially (high school teacher coming out)
The net effect of all our talk here is to improve the forum and communicate to the Gods
That all is not satisfactory in beta 3.
Hundreds of Players vision exceeds developer, it’s a numbers game, hence the forums were created by the gods to spy...

#two minds are better than one

 

[WR3ND]

i never got the fascination with limited jump range. The galaxy is what, 30K+ LY across?

...

More like 75K, in-game.

There's no need for greater jump distances in the game. Going across the galaxy or the like is entirely optional gameplay, and having it take a while makes it a more meaningful and noteworthy accomplishment. If Colonia were right next to the bubble, it wouldn't be significant for any reason really at all.

Getting across the bubble takes like 10 to 15 minutes in a fully combat loaded Vulture without using jumponium nor neutron star boosts or the like and maybe like 20 to 30 minutes to get to the Pleiades. Jump range is sufficient as is.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

It would be far easier to just do a slight balance pass on the Asp X and DBX.


I've actually done the math on this. For example, if you drop the Asp X hull from 280T to 250T it would have a jump range comparable to the Anaconda with both ships in similar lightweight exploration trim and engineering. With the DBX if you just drop it's hull from 260T to 245T then it too would jump almost exactly like the Anaconda and the above Asp X. Now, bump up one C4 slot to a C5 on the DBX to allow a decent fuel scoop (knock down other internal sizes if you have to!) and viola you now have three very effective yet similar in range exploration ships, plus a logical progression in ship design. The DBX would be the cheapest but still have the slowest scoop of the bunch and the least internals, the Asp X would be a bit more expensive but have a faster scoop with better internals, and the Anaconda would possess the fastest scoop with the best internals but also cost the most. BUT, all three would have similar jump range capability and would be equally viable for exploration.


Just two minor hull mass reductions could greatly improve exploration ship choices. It wouldn't take much to level the field for explorers, other ships have recieved far more changes in balance passes than this.

I was thinking more about the internals to be honest.
I'm still shocked that the DBX is as heavy as it is - it feels more like a small than a medium to me.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

I was thinking more about the internals to be honest.
I'm still shocked that the DBX is as heavy as it is - it feels more like a small than a medium to me.

The DBX is a small ship - small as in able to land on small landing pads.

All the problems is the result of using mass as a way to calculate jump-range and to some extend speed. The result are hull mass values that don't really look logical or make any in-game sense.

And even if the DBX hull mass gets reduced to 200 t, it would still be only half of the hull mass of an Anaconda. Ahhh, magic fairy dust sprinkled rainbow logic…

Now look at the Imperial Courier, Eagle and Viper or Hauler and Sidewinder. It's magic - or just ignore mass and consider it as a random value used to get the desired effect.

 

[Lee Archer]

The thing is although jump range is obviously important in an explorer ship - so you can travel further in less time, the reality is if you are properly. . .
. . .do we want to be able to jump 200+ ly's?

I think some people just have range anxiety and maybe are slightly less than large in the trouser dept and so need to compensate.

Always end with an insult!
Methinks he protests to loudly! Already have 200+ jumps, crossing Starless voids not “time” issues.

As a way to Enhance and Tweak exploration in the Beyond update- a cheap and easy, player driven, devoloper hands off way would be an exploration only increase in jump distance cloaked in the LORE based Guise of a “new” module, expanding human Galactic Recon and supply, post Thargoids.

New Module: Exploration FSD- Draws power from and hence disables Weapons “slots”
A change that’s easy on the Game Engine and is in no way of interest to anyone but explorers
Who are the Stellar Forges greatest Devotees.

#Stellar Forge Forever

The “I would gladly pay” is not relevant here, we already did, most of Beyond is repair.
So Stellar Forge citizens, help make easy enhancements and changes to go with the repairs. Yes, Q4, but until then...

 

[Mengy]

I was thinking more about the internals to be honest.
I'm still shocked that the DBX is as heavy as it is - it feels more like a small than a medium to me.

The DBX is a small ship, it's just the heaviest small ship in the entire game.

 

[WR3ND]

...this from the guy who I just repped only days ago while he was 'crying' about the lack of more exploration ship options.

Why people equate jump range with exploration proficiency is beyond me. A slug is still a slug, even if you give it a wack across the yard. Just look at the DbE.

And yet, some still eat it up, and here we are with a 20 page thread. Frontier don't listen to "95%" or whatever? Sorry to say, but it kind of makes sense in this context.

 

[Mengy]

Why people equate jump range with exploration proficiency is beyond me.

It's not about proficiency, it's about capability.

I can't understand how anyone can claim the Vulture makes for a good exploration ship, but I'm not going to tell you you're wrong for flying one. Just like you shouldn't try to make people care less about jump range. It's a very important feature for a lot of explorers, just not for you.

 

[jasonbirder]

Is it really a problem if it takes someone 3 hours to get to Colonia instead of 6 hours?

YES, because it means every OTHER journey taks half as long too...
No pootling up and down on a straight line to Colonia and back (Which lets be honest has been made much easier and/or quicker anyway with intermediate stations and FSD Boosts) isn't necessary an issue...
BUT it negates the "Wilderness" aspect of the Exploration..

 

[WR3ND]

It's not about proficiency, it's about capability.

...

Arguing semantics isn't the same thing as making a relevant point. The DbE is an unfortunately limited ship in terms of exploration potential and capability. It of course does have a niche role thanks to its jump range. That doesn't mean it's a good exploration ship in general. If you like it, good for you. That doesn't make your point accurate nor relevant.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

It's not about proficiency, it's about capability.

I can't understand how anyone can claim the Vulture makes for a good exploration ship, but I'm not going to tell you you're wrong for flying one. Just like you shouldn't try to make people care less about jump range. It's a very important feature for a lot of explorers, just not for you.

Maybe if people actually read they'd get it.
I'm saying that the Vulture has the almost ideal internals for a small explorer.
The fuel tank is the obvious issue that stops it being one.